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Post by tzujanli on Nov 25, 2014 22:44:58 GMT -5
You are both witness and witnessed, part AND whole, and.. you are not what you witness, it is an independently functioning version of the same whole, there is separation between the seer and the seen.. all, interconnected through the experience of existence happening..
Where is the witness in deep sleep, or when sedated, when awareness is absent?..
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Post by earnest on Nov 26, 2014 0:24:05 GMT -5
Train #1 has the best whistle,. Like the old type on a steam engine, long and low. Makes my heart ache just thinking about it. You mean like this? That's the one. Calling me home.
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Post by laughter on Nov 26, 2014 4:43:18 GMT -5
No........we're.........not........ That's the point I was trying to make. We're not, unless we are, that is, unless it's actualized. We can imagine we are for a million years.......it means nothing. You can imagine you're not, which is the point I'm trying to make. The witness is what you always are and have always been. You cannot be what you are witnessing. You don't need to become the witness. How can you not already be that which is witnessing, right here, right now? How would that be possible? Are you witnessing or are you not? It's not rocket science unless you make it so. An excellent pointer, but isn't this a round of identity poker?
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Post by zendancer on Nov 26, 2014 8:15:38 GMT -5
No........we're.........not........ That's the point I was trying to make. We're not, unless we are, that is, unless it's actualized. We can imagine we are for a million years.......it means nothing. You can imagine you're not, which is the point I'm trying to make. The witness is what you always are and have always been. You cannot be what you are witnessing. You don't need to become the witness. How can you not already be that which is witnessing, right here, right now? How would that be possible? Are you witnessing or are you not? It's not rocket science unless you make it so. I understand the intention of this pointer, but I tend to point to BOTH witness and that which is witnessed as a unified field of being. Ramesh used to say, "Consciousness is all there is," but from my POV this is focusing primarily on one side of the coin." Krishna walked around with Arjuna pointing to various things (trees, rivers, etc) and saying, "Thou art that." This is the other side of the coin. If no distinctions are made, part and whole both disappear, and there is only the isness of "what is." Consequently, the pointer I like is, "You are the entire cosmos-- "what is"-- the whole shebang-- both witnesser and witnessed-- but you need to verify this for yourself. Then you can relax, and enjoy being what you are--an ordinary person going about your business.
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 26, 2014 10:49:18 GMT -5
You can imagine you're not, which is the point I'm trying to make. The witness is what you always are and have always been. You cannot be what you are witnessing. You don't need to become the witness. How can you not already be that which is witnessing, right here, right now? How would that be possible? Are you witnessing or are you not? It's not rocket science unless you make it so. I understand the intention of this pointer, but I tend to point to BOTH witness and that which is witnessed as a unified field of being. Ramesh used to say, "Consciousness is all there is," but from my POV this is focusing primarily on one side of the coin." Krishna walked around with Arjuna pointing to various things (trees, rivers, etc) and saying, "Thou art that." This is the other side of the coin. If no distinctions are made, part and whole both disappear, and there is only the isness of "what is." Consequently, the pointer I like is, "You are the entire cosmos-- "what is"-- the whole shebang-- both witnesser and witnessed-- but you need to verify this for yourself. Then you can relax, and enjoy being what you are--an ordinary person going about your business. Looking without distinction. Matt 18:3
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Post by zendancer on Nov 26, 2014 12:37:40 GMT -5
I understand the intention of this pointer, but I tend to point to BOTH witness and that which is witnessed as a unified field of being. Ramesh used to say, "Consciousness is all there is," but from my POV this is focusing primarily on one side of the coin." Krishna walked around with Arjuna pointing to various things (trees, rivers, etc) and saying, "Thou art that." This is the other side of the coin. If no distinctions are made, part and whole both disappear, and there is only the isness of "what is." Consequently, the pointer I like is, "You are the entire cosmos-- "what is"-- the whole shebang-- both witnesser and witnessed-- but you need to verify this for yourself. Then you can relax, and enjoy being what you are--an ordinary person going about your business. Looking without distinction. Matt 18:3 Bingo!
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 26, 2014 19:11:11 GMT -5
I understand the intention of this pointer, but I tend to point to BOTH witness and that which is witnessed as a unified field of being. Ramesh used to say, "Consciousness is all there is," but from my POV this is focusing primarily on one side of the coin." Krishna walked around with Arjuna pointing to various things (trees, rivers, etc) and saying, "Thou art that." This is the other side of the coin. If no distinctions are made, part and whole both disappear, and there is only the isness of "what is." Consequently, the pointer I like is, "You are the entire cosmos-- "what is"-- the whole shebang-- both witnesser and witnessed-- but you need to verify this for yourself. Then you can relax, and enjoy being what you are--an ordinary person going about your business. Looking without distinction. Matt 18:3 Speculating about a child's perception/and mental activity as it relates to the words of Jesus (Matt 18:3) projects beyond What Actually Happens, it is too much thinking... Witness and witnessed, distinct and united, parts of a greater whole.. According to E, " You cannot be what you are witnessing", allowing for the separation between the seer and the seen.. If no distinction is made, the illusion becomes real, the snake is not distinguished from a rope..
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Post by enigma on Nov 26, 2014 19:44:34 GMT -5
You are both witness and witnessed, part AND whole, and.. you are not what you witness, it is an independently functioning version of the same whole, there is separation between the seer and the seen.. all, interconnected through the experience of existence happening.. Where is the witness in deep sleep, or when sedated, when awareness is absent?..The witness is still there, there just isn't anything to witness.
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Post by enigma on Nov 26, 2014 19:45:25 GMT -5
You can imagine you're not, which is the point I'm trying to make. The witness is what you always are and have always been. You cannot be what you are witnessing. You don't need to become the witness. How can you not already be that which is witnessing, right here, right now? How would that be possible? Are you witnessing or are you not? It's not rocket science unless you make it so. An excellent pointer, but isn't this a round of identity poker? Yes, it is.
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Post by enigma on Nov 26, 2014 19:49:39 GMT -5
You can imagine you're not, which is the point I'm trying to make. The witness is what you always are and have always been. You cannot be what you are witnessing. You don't need to become the witness. How can you not already be that which is witnessing, right here, right now? How would that be possible? Are you witnessing or are you not? It's not rocket science unless you make it so. I understand the intention of this pointer, but I tend to point to BOTH witness and that which is witnessed as a unified field of being. Ramesh used to say, "Consciousness is all there is," but from my POV this is focusing primarily on one side of the coin." Krishna walked around with Arjuna pointing to various things (trees, rivers, etc) and saying, "Thou art that." This is the other side of the coin. If no distinctions are made, part and whole both disappear, and there is only the isness of "what is." Consequently, the pointer I like is, "You are the entire cosmos-- "what is"-- the whole shebang-- both witnesser and witnessed-- but you need to verify this for yourself. Then you can relax, and enjoy being what you are--an ordinary person going about your business. Yes, we are the witness and what is witnessed. The issue I wanted to resolve with SDP was the notion that we are not that until we somehow actualize it, or get our train going fast enough, or whatever.
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Post by enigma on Nov 26, 2014 19:51:48 GMT -5
Looking without distinction. Matt 18:3 Speculating about a child's perception/and mental activity as it relates to the words of Jesus (Matt 18:3) projects beyond What Actually Happens, it is too much thinking... Witness and witnessed, distinct and united, parts of a greater whole.. According to E, "You cannot be what you are witnessing", allowing for the separation between the seer and the seen.. If no distinction is made, the illusion becomes real, the snake is not distinguished from a rope.. It's a pointer. You're licking it.
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 26, 2014 20:08:51 GMT -5
You are both witness and witnessed, part AND whole, and.. you are not what you witness, it is an independently functioning version of the same whole, there is separation between the seer and the seen.. all, interconnected through the experience of existence happening.. Where is the witness in deep sleep, or when sedated, when awareness is absent?..The witness is still there, there just isn't anything to witness. How can that be?.. other witnesses report what was happening while that witness was sleeping, or was sedated, while that witness's awareness was absent..
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 26, 2014 20:11:42 GMT -5
Speculating about a child's perception/and mental activity as it relates to the words of Jesus (Matt 18:3) projects beyond What Actually Happens, it is too much thinking... Witness and witnessed, distinct and united, parts of a greater whole.. According to E, "You cannot be what you are witnessing", allowing for the separation between the seer and the seen.. If no distinction is made, the illusion becomes real, the snake is not distinguished from a rope.. It's a pointer. You're licking it. No, it's a misconception, and you're making it..
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Post by enigma on Nov 26, 2014 20:19:54 GMT -5
The witness is still there, there just isn't anything to witness. How can that be?.. other witnesses report what was happening while that witness was sleeping, or was sedated, while that witness's awareness was absent.. You asked where the witness is when consciousness is absent. I'm saying it's still there, but in the absence of consciousness, there isn't anything to report. The fact that when consciousness returns, there are all sorts of stories told about what happened, doesn't deny the ongoing presence of that witness.
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Post by enigma on Nov 26, 2014 20:27:46 GMT -5
It's a pointer. You're licking it. No, it's a misconception, and you're making it.. Still your mind and simply look. You'll see that it's obvious that you cannot be that which you are looking at. You must be prior to that which appears to you.
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