|
|
Post by quinn on Sept 24, 2014 7:43:16 GMT -5
Peace and love are descriptions/ideas about experiences.. those words/pointers are what the author wants the observer to understand in the same way the author understands them.. those words carry a certain amount of emotional charge for most people, invoking a conditioned reverence that has imagined penalties for challenging the the authority of the author's invocation.. It's interesting to watch people talk about peace and love, each nodding, and smiling, and agreeing, until.. somebody says something about peace and love the others don't agree with, then peace and love sorta get an attitude.. When people describe what they 'feel' when they use words like peace and love, rather than what they 'think', there is more understanding and less conflict.. for someone to insist that their use of the words 'peace' and 'love' is more awakened, or realized, or enlightened, or just plain better than someone else's reveals an attachment to ideas perceived in a you/me possessive affirmation of individuality.. it's almost as interesting as the self-extinction efforts of tribal rituals like killing others because they don't worship the same 'God' you do, the same 'way' you do.. Really, Tzu, you can put down that sword you're wielding to protect all the innocents. It must be exhausting. FYI, I asked E about those terms for the sake of communication. I thought he explained well where he's coming from and why. Doesn't mean I agree with him. Doesn't mean he's insisting I look at things his way. The tribal rituals are all in your imagination. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 8:49:09 GMT -5
andyparf?! This will mark my 12,000th post!  yes, and only twelve thousand of them had you as the subject  |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Sept 24, 2014 9:39:52 GMT -5
Peace and love are descriptions/ideas about experiences.. those words/pointers are what the author wants the observer to understand in the same way the author understands them.. those words carry a certain amount of emotional charge for most people, invoking a conditioned reverence that has imagined penalties for challenging the the authority of the author's invocation.. It's interesting to watch people talk about peace and love, each nodding, and smiling, and agreeing, until.. somebody says something about peace and love the others don't agree with, then peace and love sorta get an attitude.. When people describe what they 'feel' when they use words like peace and love, rather than what they 'think', there is more understanding and less conflict.. for someone to insist that their use of the words 'peace' and 'love' is more awakened, or realized, or enlightened, or just plain better than someone else's reveals an attachment to ideas perceived in a you/me possessive affirmation of individuality.. it's almost as interesting as the self-extinction efforts of tribal rituals like killing others because they don't worship the same 'God' you do, the same 'way' you do.. Really, Tzu, you can put down that sword you're wielding to protect all the innocents. It must be exhausting. FYI, I asked E about those terms for the sake of communication. I thought he explained well where he's coming from and why. Doesn't mean I agree with him. Doesn't mean he's insisting I look at things his way. The tribal rituals are all in your imagination.Tzu made his position very clear: 'Truth' is the experience itself, not the words, labels, descriptions, beliefs and pointings we assign to those experiences.. If he experiences tribal rituals, then that is 'truth'. What he doesn't notice is that he is actually experiencing a belief. Similar to the still mind that sees a separate volitional person dreaming and sleeping when he's looking at a body lying somewhere. It's similar to the face-value dogma, except that the face-value dogma doesn't even care about the distinction between truth and illusion. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 24, 2014 10:26:23 GMT -5
Really, Tzu, you can put down that sword you're wielding to protect all the innocents. It must be exhausting. FYI, I asked E about those terms for the sake of communication. I thought he explained well where he's coming from and why. Doesn't mean I agree with him. Doesn't mean he's insisting I look at things his way. The tribal rituals are all in your imagination.Tzu made his position very clear: 'Truth' is the experience itself, not the words, labels, descriptions, beliefs and pointings we assign to those experiences.. If he experiences tribal rituals, then that is 'truth'. What he doesn't notice is that he is actually experiencing a belief. Similar to the still mind that sees a separate volitional person dreaming and sleeping when he's looking at a body lying somewhere. It's similar to the face-value dogma, except that the face-value dogma doesn't even care about the distinction between truth and illusion. Right, there's no illusion free understanding of experience, and so experience is not 'Truth'. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Sept 24, 2014 11:11:07 GMT -5
andyparf?! This will mark my 12,000th post! yes, and only twelve thousand of them had you as the subject do you have something against self inquiry that leads to 12 thou' posts?  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 11:32:24 GMT -5
yes, and only twelve thousand of them had you as the subject do you have something against self inquiry that leads to 12 thou' posts? inquires? is one question 11,999 is twaddle |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Sept 24, 2014 11:46:16 GMT -5
do you have something against self inquiry that leads to 12 thou' posts? inquires? is one question 11,999 is twaddle Oh yeah?! Well, at least I don't have the distinction of nearly all my posts poking and jabbing at everything and everybody like you do.  |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 24, 2014 15:35:23 GMT -5
(** muttley snicker **)
|
|
|
|
Post by silence on Sept 24, 2014 16:49:53 GMT -5
Peace and love are descriptions/ideas about experiences.. those words/pointers are what the author wants the observer to understand in the same way the author understands them.. those words carry a certain amount of emotional charge for most people, invoking a conditioned reverence that has imagined penalties for challenging the the authority of the author's invocation.. It's interesting to watch people talk about peace and love, each nodding, and smiling, and agreeing, until.. somebody says something about peace and love the others don't agree with, then peace and love sorta get an attitude.. When people describe what they 'feel' when they use words like peace and love, rather than what they 'think', there is more understanding and less conflict.. for someone to insist that their use of the words 'peace' and 'love' is more awakened, or realized, or enlightened, or just plain better than someone else's reveals an attachment to ideas perceived in a you/me possessive affirmation of individuality.. it's almost as interesting as the self-extinction efforts of tribal rituals like killing others because they don't worship the same 'God' you do, the same 'way' you do.. Really, Tzu, you can put down that sword you're wielding to protect all the innocents. It must be exhausting. FYI, I asked E about those terms for the sake of communication. I thought he explained well where he's coming from and why. Doesn't mean I agree with him. Doesn't mean he's insisting I look at things his way. The tribal rituals are all in your imagination. Maybe someone can hire some damsels in distress to show up in Tzu's neighborhood so he can get his fix. |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 24, 2014 17:49:33 GMT -5
Tzu made his position very clear: If he experiences tribal rituals, then that is 'truth'. What he doesn't notice is that he is actually experiencing a belief. Similar to the still mind that sees a separate volitional person dreaming and sleeping when he's looking at a body lying somewhere. It's similar to the face-value dogma, except that the face-value dogma doesn't even care about the distinction between truth and illusion. Right, there's no illusion free understanding of experience, and so experience is not 'Truth'. A pointer that can be mistaken for "Truth" is that in the experience the experiencer and what is experienced never were not one. |
|
|
|
Post by Transcix on Sept 25, 2014 0:09:54 GMT -5
realizing now that there is nothing to know nothing to gain and nothing to lose, that death will be the same as life and there will be nothing left of this character you played because it had no foundation when you where alive False. If death is the same as life then choose both, choose neither, choose nor one nor the other, it doesn't make a difference.. but you're ALIVE so obviously there's a difference, you have not yet died.. something is keeping you alive, despite your ignorance haha.. |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 25, 2014 20:26:29 GMT -5
This realization you describe is an identification with the result of a process of change. Mind incorrectly informed by experience.   |
|
|
|
Post by tzujanli on Sept 26, 2014 5:27:00 GMT -5
Experience as experienced through a still mind's awareness is illusion free.. but, when illusion is the source of the experiencer's understanding, it is invoked to defend that same understanding..
|
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 26, 2014 7:57:47 GMT -5
The absence of a conceptual understanding can only be stated by an idea, and therein lies a fundamental statement of the limits of information-based communication.
The notion that experience is only experienced through an intermediary is not the product of a still mind.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 17:17:53 GMT -5
Peace and love are descriptions/ideas about experiences.. those words/pointers are what the author wants the observer to understand in the same way the author understands them.. those words carry a certain amount of emotional charge for most people, invoking a conditioned reverence that has imagined penalties for challenging the the authority of the author's invocation.. It's interesting to watch people talk about peace and love, each nodding, and smiling, and agreeing, until.. somebody says something about peace and love the others don't agree with, then peace and love sorta get an attitude.. When people describe what they 'feel' when they use words like peace and love, rather than what they 'think', there is more understanding and less conflict.. for someone to insist that their use of the words 'peace' and 'love' is more awakened, or realized, or enlightened, or just plain better than someone else's reveals an attachment to ideas perceived in a you/me possessive affirmation of individuality.. it's almost as interesting as the self-extinction efforts of tribal rituals like killing others because they don't worship the same 'God' you do, the same 'way' you do.. Really, Tzu, you can put down that sword you're wielding to protect all the innocents. It must be exhausting. FYI, I asked E about those terms for the sake of communication. I thought he explained well where he's coming from and why. Doesn't mean I agree with him. Doesn't mean he's insisting I look at things his way. The tribal rituals are all in your imagination. |
|
