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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 3, 2015 13:48:09 GMT -5
Q: But the religions warn against pleasure-seeking. Through prayer, meditation,
and various practices one is encouraged to transcend mere pleasure ...
U.G.: They sell you spiritual pathedrins, spiritual morphine. You take that drug and
go to sleep. Now the scientists have perfected pleasure drugs, it is much easier to
take. It never strikes you that the enlightenment and God you are after is just the
ultimate pleasure, a pleasure moreover, which you have invented to be free from the
painful state you are always in. Your painful, neurotic state is caused by wanting two
contradictory things at the same time.
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 3, 2015 13:52:36 GMT -5
Q: Leaving aside the question of whether evil or good is possible for an organism
that is already genetically programmed to be brutal and warlike, do not the
religious practices--meditation, yoga, humility, etc.--attempt to help man go
beyond these biological limitations?
U.G.: Meditation is itself an evil. That is why all the evil thoughts swell up when you
try to meditate. Otherwise you have no reference point, no way of knowing if the
thoughts are good or evil thoughts. Meditation is a battle, but you only experience
more pain. I can assure you that not only is the goal of meditation and moksha put
into you by our culture, but that ultimately you will get nothing but pain. You may
experience some petty little mystical experiences, which are of no value to you or
anyone.
Q: But we are not interested in any such petty experiences, we want freedom ...
U.G.: What is the difference whether or not you find this freedom, this enlightenment
or not. You will not be there to benefit from it. What possible good can this state do
you? This state takes away EVERYTHING you have. That is why they call it
"jivanmukti" -- living in liberation. While living, the body has died. Somehow the
body, having gone through death, is kept alive. It is neither happiness nor
unhappiness. There is no such thing as happiness. This you do not, cannot, want.
What you want is everything, here you lose everything. You want everything, and
that is not possible. The religions have promised you so much--roses, gardens--and
you end up with only thorns.
Q: But other teachers, like J. Krishnamurti, describe a journey of discovery, that
through awareness and free inquiry one can find out ...
U.G.: There is no transformation, radical or otherwise. That buffoon (referring to J.K.)
talking in the circus tent there offers you a journey of discovery. It is a bogus charter
flight. There is no such journey. The Vedic stuff is no more helpful. It was invented
by some acid-heads after drinking some soma juice. J.K. is more neurotic than the
people who go to listen to him.
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 3, 2015 13:54:06 GMT -5
Q: I am making an effort to understand ... U.G.: You are using effort to be in an effortless state. How the hell can you use effort to be in an effortless state? You think that you can live an effortless life through volition, struggle, and effort. Unfortunately, that is all you can do. Effort is all you know. The "you", and everything it has achieved, has been a result of effort. Effortlessness through effort is like peace through war. How can you have peace through war? The "peace of mind" you want is an extension of this war of effort and struggle. So is meditation warfare. You sit for meditation while there is a battle raging within you. The result is violent, evil thoughts welling up inside you. Next, you try to control or direct these brutal thoughts, making more effort and violence for yourself in the process. Q: But there does seem to be something like peace of mind when one finishes one's prayers or meditations. How do you explain that? U.G.: It is the result of sheer exhaustion, that's all. Your attempts to control or suppress your thoughts only tire you out, making you sort of battle-weary. That is the effortlessness and peace of mind you are experiencing. It is not peace. If you want techniques for thought control, you have come to the wrong man. UG Mind is a Myth
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 3, 2015 14:02:55 GMT -5
Q: Why shouldn't we brush aside what you are saying, just as you brush aside the
teachings and efforts of others?
U.G.: You will never blast me; the attachment you have to religious authority
prohibits you from questioning anything, much less a man like me. I am certain you
will never challenge me. For that reason what I am saying will inevitably create an
unstable, neurotic situation for you. You cannot accept what I am saying, and neither
are you in any position to reject it. If it wasn't for your very thick skin, you would
certainly end up in the loony bin. You simply cannot and will not question what I am
saying; it is too much of a threat. Absolutely nothing is going to penetrate your
defenses; Gowdapada provides the gloves, the Bhagavad Gita a snug coat jacket, and
the Brahmasutra(3) a bullet-proof vest. So you are safe, and that is all you are really
interested in. You can't blast what I am saying as long as you are relying upon what
someone has said before.
Please don't say that there are thousands of seers and sages; there are only a very
few. You can count them all on your fingers. The rest are merely technocrats. The
saint is a technocrat. That is what most people are. But now with the development of
drugs and other techniques, the saint is dispensable. You don't any longer need a
priest or saint to instruct you in meditation. If you want to control your thoughts,
simply take a drug and forget them, if that is what you want. If you can't sleep, take a
sleeping pill. Sleep for a while, then wake up. It is the same.
Don't listen to me. It will create an unnecessary disturbance in you. It will only
intensify the neurotic situation you are already caught in. Having taken for granted
the validity of all this holy stuff, having never questioned, much less broken away
from it, you not only have learned how to live with it, but also how to capitalize on it.
It is a matter of profiteering, nothing more.
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 3, 2015 14:06:23 GMT -5
Q: I feel that if anybody can help us it is you.
U.G.: No sir! Anything I do to help would only add to your misery -- that is all. By
continuing to listen to me you merely heap one more misery upon those you already
have. In that sense this discussion we are having is doing you no good whatever.
You don't seem to realize that you are playing with fire here. If you really want
moksha here and now, you can have it. You see, you ARE anger, selfishness, and all
these things; if they go, you go. There is a physical going -- not in the abstract, but
actual physical death.
Q:You are saying that that can happen now? Others have said ...
U.G.: I don't give a hoot what others have said. It can happen now. You simply don't
want it. You would not touch it with a ten-foot barge pole. If anger and selfishness,
which is YOU go, moksha is now, not tomorrow. Your own anger will burn you, not
the electric heater. So the religious man has invented selflessness. If that selflessness
goes, you go, that is all. So, freeing yourself from any one of these things (i.e., greed,
selfishness, etc.,) implies that you, as you know and experience yourself, are coming
to an end NOW. Please, in your interest and out of compassion I am telling you, this
is not what you want. This is not a thing you can make happen. It is not in your
hands at all. It hits whomsoever it chooses. You are out of the picture altogether.
All that poetry and romanticism about "dying to all your yesterdays" is not going to
help you, or anybody. Nothing can come out of it. They may hold forth on platforms,
but they themselves don't want it. It is just words. Eventually people settle for that
(viz., temples, mantras, scriptures). It is all too absurd and childish.
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 3, 2015 14:20:39 GMT -5
Q: Well, Eastern philosophies talk of a "still center" that can be found through
meditation ...
U.G.: I question the very existence, the very idea of the self, the mind, or the psyche.
If you accept the concept of the self (and it is a concept), you are free to pursue and
gain self-knowledge. But we never question the idea of the self, do we?
Q: What is this self you are talking of?
U.G.: You are interested in the self, not I. Whatever it is, it is the most important thing
for man as long as he is alive.
Q: I exist, therefore, I am. Is that it? Descartes?
U.G.: You have never questioned the basic thing assumed here. That is: I think,
therefore, I am. If you don't think it never occurs to you that you are alive or dead.
Since we think all the time, the very birth of thought creates fear, and it is out of fear
that all experience springs. Both "inner" and "outer" worlds proceed from a point of
thought. Everything you experience is born out of thought. So, everything you
experience, or can experience, is an illusion.
The self-absorption in thought creates a self-centeredness in man; that is all that is
there. All relationships based upon that will inevitably create misery for man. These
are bogus relationships. As far as you are concerned, there is no such thing as a
relationship. And yet society demands not just relationships, but permanent
relationships.
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 3, 2015 14:36:30 GMT -5
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Post by laughter on Dec 3, 2015 17:32:05 GMT -5
Q: I feel that if anybody can help us it is you.U.G.: No sir! Anything I do to help would only add to your misery -- that is all. By continuing to listen to me you merely heap one more misery upon those you already have. In that sense this discussion we are having is doing you no good whatever.  how can ya' not love this guy? really ... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 6:05:50 GMT -5
Q: I feel that if anybody can help us it is you.U.G.: No sir! Anything I do to help would only add to your misery -- that is all. By continuing to listen to me you merely heap one more misery upon those you already have. In that sense this discussion we are having is doing you no good whatever. how can ya' not love this guy? really ...  he just knew it was good..  |
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 4, 2015 7:44:55 GMT -5
how can ya' not love this guy? really ... he just knew it was good.. Bogut was even more certain  -- going for lunch or something. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 8:49:00 GMT -5
he just knew it was good.. Bogut was even more certain -- going for lunch or something. Bogut is why it was posted |
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Post by maxdprophet on Dec 4, 2015 8:55:12 GMT -5
Bogut was even more certain -- going for lunch or something. Bogut is why it was posted  |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 22, 2016 9:39:49 GMT -5
The beyond can never be experienced by you
UG: Is there a beyond? Because you are not interested in the everyday things and the happenings around you, you have invented a thing called the 'beyond', or 'timelessness', or 'God', 'Truth', 'Reality', 'Brahman', 'enlightenment', or whatever, and you search for that. There may not be any beyond. You don't know a thing about that beyond; whatever you know is what you have been told, the knowledge you have about that. So you are projecting that knowledge. What you call 'beyond' is created by the knowledge you have about that beyond; and whatever knowledge you have about a beyond is exactly what you will experience. The knowledge creates the experience, and the experience then strengthens the knowledge.
What you know can never be the beyond. Whatever you experience is not the beyond. If there is any beyond, this movement of 'you' is absent. The absence of this movement probably is the beyond, but the beyond can never be experienced by you; it is when the 'you' is not there. Why are you trying to experience a thing that cannot be experienced?
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Post by Reefs on Aug 22, 2016 10:37:55 GMT -5
Is there a beyond? Because you are not interested in the everyday things and the happenings around you, you have invented a thing called the 'beyond', or 'timelessness', or 'God', 'Truth', 'Reality', 'Brahman', 'enlightenment', or whatever, and you search for that. There may not be any beyond. You don't know a thing about that beyond; whatever you know is what you have been told, the knowledge you have about that. So you are projecting that knowledge. What you call 'beyond' is created by the knowledge you have about that beyond; and whatever knowledge you have about a beyond is exactly what you will experience. The knowledge creates the experience, and the experience then strengthens the knowledge. What you know can never be the beyond. Whatever you experience is not the beyond. If there is any beyond, this movement of 'you' is absent. The absence of this movement probably is the beyond, but the beyond can never be experienced by you; it is when the 'you' is not there. Why are you trying to experience a thing that cannot be experienced? Beautifully said.  |
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Post by anja on Aug 22, 2016 10:41:01 GMT -5
Is there a beyond? Because you are not interested in the everyday things and the happenings around you, you have invented a thing called the 'beyond', or 'timelessness', or 'God', 'Truth', 'Reality', 'Brahman', 'enlightenment', or whatever, and you search for that. There may not be any beyond. You don't know a thing about that beyond; whatever you know is what you have been told, the knowledge you have about that. So you are projecting that knowledge. What you call 'beyond' is created by the knowledge you have about that beyond; and whatever knowledge you have about a beyond is exactly what you will experience. The knowledge creates the experience, and the experience then strengthens the knowledge. What you know can never be the beyond. Whatever you experience is not the beyond. If there is any beyond, this movement of 'you' is absent. The absence of this movement probably is the beyond, but the beyond can never be experienced by you; it is when the 'you' is not there. Why are you trying to experience a thing that cannot be experienced? Beautifully said. What does no-guru-guru U.G. know about "the beyond" anyway? |
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how can ya' not love this guy? really ...
-- going for lunch or something.
