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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2015 20:40:37 GMT -5
But this can't be known when you are in dream. Wow, I said that? back then? Doesn't even sound like me, but oh well. Anyhoo...I think sometimes, peeps can tell they're dreaming or have a sense of it, even while still asleep and dreaming. But I don't recall this conversation anyway, so whatev.  Axshooly, it sounds eggzackly like you.  |
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Post by laughter on Aug 25, 2015 20:42:35 GMT -5
 .. Raj ... doooooood ... stop thinking about it man! But he was created for that purpose! It's predetermined!  "a bird does not fly it is flown, a fish does not swim it is swum ..."  |
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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2015 20:47:17 GMT -5
Um, that's not the way I read it. Try to get a clearer picture of what the Buddha purportedly taught and you can start with reading Master Hahn's biography about the Buddha, Old Path White Clouds.  I've read much about this Buddha person, we've understood our readings differently.. It's ackchooly a misunderstanding of the core of nonduality and suffering, so it's a good thing you're here to present a balanced view and all.  |
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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2015 20:51:34 GMT -5
But he was created for that purpose! It's predetermined! "a bird does not fly it is flown, a fish does not swim it is swum ..." What about the mole? Tell me about the mole.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 21:03:06 GMT -5
Not good to batter our ego's.
Ego's battering egos is something we all have a go at because the ego is afraid of change, where, for a tiny moment we experience confusion and feel like an Idiot.
Yet,the idiot-state is important.
To put an idiot down by saying "Far beyond your ability" is denying that idiocy is a very important phase that our minds go thro as it's precious collection of meaningful concepts are becoming re-organised on the Library shelves of our Minds.
There is a domain which exists prior to mental appreciation and internal dialoque, where one can dwell comfortably and not be pushed about when reviewing their sub-concious. It appears that if the individual has dealt-with their subconscious retentions they can dwell there longer. My guess is that niz's finger being attached to his hand is just ONE of his many fingers that could point to confuse his audience.
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Post by laughter on Aug 25, 2015 21:46:05 GMT -5
Not good to batter our ego's. Ego's battering egos is something we all have a go at because the ego is afraid of change, where, for a tiny moment we experience confusion and feel like an Idiot. Yet,the idiot-state is important.To put an idiot down by saying "Far beyond your ability" is denying that idiocy is a very important phase that our minds go thro as it's precious collection of meaningful concepts are becoming re-organised on the Library shelves of our Minds. There is a domain which exists prior to mental appreciation and internal dialoque, where one can dwell comfortably and not be pushed about when reviewing their sub-concious. It appears that if the individual has dealt-with their subconscious retentions they can dwell there longer. My guess is that niz's finger being attached to his hand is just ONE of his many fingers that could point to confuse his audience. If one pays attention to what they are conscious of while it comes and goes it gets pretty clear real quick that the only movement of mind that would batter ego -- either one's own, or someone else's -- is none other than ego itself. Where the subconscious comes into it is that these patterns are really complex, such that the pattern from which ego emerges is quite clever and resourceful, and good at generating disguise. The disguises usually don't work so well in a crowd, but they fool someone lookin' in a mirror almost every time. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 0:27:25 GMT -5
Not good to batter our ego's. Ego's battering egos is something we all have a go at because the ego is afraid of change, where, for a tiny moment we experience confusion and feel like an Idiot. Yet,the idiot-state is important.To put an idiot down by saying "Far beyond your ability" is denying that idiocy is a very important phase that our minds go thro as it's precious collection of meaningful concepts are becoming re-organised on the Library shelves of our Minds. There is a domain which exists prior to mental appreciation and internal dialoque, where one can dwell comfortably and not be pushed about when reviewing their sub-concious. It appears that if the individual has dealt-with their subconscious retentions they can dwell there longer. My guess is that niz's finger being attached to his hand is just ONE of his many fingers that could point to confuse his audience. If one pays attention to what they are conscious of while it comes and goes it gets pretty clear real quick that the only movement of mind that would batter ego -- either one's own, or someone else's -- is none other than ego itself. Where the subconscious comes into it is that these patterns are really complex, such that the pattern from which ego emerges is quite clever and resourceful, and good at generating disguise. The disguises usually don't work so well in a crowd, but they fool someone lookin' in a mirror almost every time. Egos are paying attention as the united-self watches from both perspectives is my take on this matter of ego-bashing Laughter. So, there is no IF about this matter. Mostly, ego's clown about as they haven't come to the realisation of what they can do to assist a greater consciousness upon the globe. There are children suffering. Feeding the ppls egos is a distraction which keeps us from caring for those that are less fortunate than their parents who maybe fighting Religious Battles, or seeking to look intelligent in the eye of the opposing Observor. |
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 26, 2015 4:55:32 GMT -5
This is the crux of the matter, abandonment of responsibility.. those that can, do, and those that can't, make excuses.. it's the same reaction Buddha had when he realized his parents duped him, to claim that Life is suffering and that by pretending there's no 'you' to suffer it magically goes away.. it is the imbalance of pretending the other side of the coin doesn't exist, the side where what happens is directly brought about precisely by the effort of the experiencer.. denial is not the same as revealing what 'is'.. UG's beliefs are just more bright lights at the Spiritual Circus, stay at the Circus as long as you choose, but.. walk away from the circus and those illusions fade away.. UG is pointing to something far beyond your ability to comprehend. He's not saying abandon responsibility. Abandoning responsibility is a natural result of pretending there's no one there to be responsible.. Ug is describing what ug understands, and i comprehend what ug is describing, i simply disagree with some aspects.. |
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 26, 2015 5:01:02 GMT -5
I've read much about this Buddha person, we've understood our readings differently.. It's ackchooly a misunderstanding of the core of nonduality and suffering, so it's a good thing you're here to present a balanced view and all. Your 'idea' of suffering is just an idea, such that you can pretend it goes away.. it's mind-play you've mistaken for 'real'.. nonduality is the ideology you hide behind to justify your provocations, mockery, and ridicule.. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 26, 2015 10:29:34 GMT -5
UG is pointing to something far beyond your ability to comprehend. He's not saying abandon responsibility. Ug is describing what ug understands, and i comprehend what ug is describing, i simply disagree with some aspects.. That's only true if it's a pretence, and it isn't. |
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 26, 2015 16:30:07 GMT -5
Abandoning responsibility is a natural result of pretending there's no one there to be responsible.. Ug is describing what ug understands, and i comprehend what ug is describing, i simply disagree with some aspects.. That's only true if it's a pretence, and it isn't. Of course it's pretense, you imagine stuff then pretend it's true.. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 26, 2015 22:04:06 GMT -5
That's only true if it's a pretence, and it isn't. Of course it's pretense, you imagine stuff then pretend it's true.. You don't see this kind of discussion as childish at all? |
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 27, 2015 4:57:01 GMT -5
Of course it's pretense, you imagine stuff then pretend it's true.. You don't see this kind of discussion as childish at all? Yes, i do.. i see those that see what is in front of them and claim that to be illusion, but what exists only in their minds they believe as true, yes i see that as childish.. an utter failure to reconcile the totality of existence.. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 5, 2015 9:04:32 GMT -5
"a very dead corpse". Seriously, how can ya' not love this guy? Really. There is no longer a 'you' who reads the thoughts and thinks that they are 'his'. And that is the crux of the matter, that question, right there: "what is the source of these thoughts?". It's one anyone can turn inward to answer for themselves, anytime, anywhere. It's also the ego-villain that peeps like Tolle have been demonized for chasing around the speawitchual circus for the last decade. Adya defines ego this way: Everything is just arising spontaneously, and if there is any ego at all, it is just this particular movement of mind that says, "It's mine". From "Emptiness Dancing", Chapter 11 "Ego", para's 3-5
Very simple. Ego is a thought that comes and goes, but in terms of one's own thoughts ("these thoughts are mine"), it mostly stays, and takes up residence in the mind as a form of false identity. Ego is not and never is a problem, per se, but if someone's interested in the living truth, it's sure as hell is one elephant sized opportunity. Yeah, no one takes ownership of the clouds moving over their heads either, hehe. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 5, 2015 9:12:50 GMT -5
Natural State vs. Behaviorism
UG: What is keeping you from being in your natural state? You are constantly moving away from yourself. You want to be happy, either permanently or at least for this moment. You are dissatisfied with your everyday experiences, and so you want some new ones. You want to perfect yourself, to change yourself. You are reaching out, trying to be something other than what you are. It is this that is taking you away from yourself. Society has put before you the ideal of a 'perfect man'. No matter in which culture you were born, you have scriptural doctrines and traditions handed down to you to tell you how to behave. You are told that through due practice you can even eventually come into the state attained by the sages, saints and saviors of mankind. And so you try to control your behavior, to control your thoughts, to be something unnatural.
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.. Raj ... doooooood ... stop thinking about it man! 
