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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 5:58:15 GMT -5
I don't mind the idea that anger, fear and hurt are born out of illusion (not love), but that's slightly different to what I was saying there. However, to go with what you said, I would say that illusion is also born out of love. It is our specific understandings that create illusion (and which create anger, fear and hurt), but the source of that is still love. In that sense, love is primary, illusion is secondary. But you said anger happens because WE love. That which expresses anger is not that which is the source of love. The source of love is impersonal. Isn't it both created by Consciousness? One might be out of ignorance, one might be out of correct knowledge? |
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 23, 2015 8:59:48 GMT -5
This is the crux of the matter, abandonment of responsibility.. those that can, do, and those that can't, make excuses.. it's the same reaction Buddha had when he realized his parents duped him, to claim that Life is suffering and that by pretending there's no 'you' to suffer it magically goes away.. it is the imbalance of pretending the other side of the coin doesn't exist, the side where what happens is directly brought about precisely by the effort of the experiencer.. denial is not the same as revealing what 'is'..
UG's beliefs are just more bright lights at the Spiritual Circus, stay at the Circus as long as you choose, but.. walk away from the circus and those illusions fade away..
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Post by laughter on Aug 23, 2015 11:59:32 GMT -5
Oh, well taking events that physically happen as "actual" (which is just another way of saying that they are true), is a worldview that is based on an assumption of an objective reality outside of you that you are a part of. Let's say you go for a walk in the park, pick up a rock and hold it in your hands for a sec, put it back down and walk away. Later on in the evening, as you're lying in bed, is the rock still where you left it? Does the rock have an existence that's independent and separate from your interaction with it? The second paragraph is the beautiful way of telling people about Objective reality. All right, So you say the rock doesn't exist when you are not looking it? Isn't it Laughter?  .. Raj ... doooooood ... stop thinking about it man!  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 12:07:49 GMT -5
The second paragraph is the beautiful way of telling people about Objective reality. All right, So you say the rock doesn't exist when you are not looking it? Isn't it Laughter? .. Raj ... doooooood ... stop thinking about it man! No no, you are my friend, I can't leave you in trouble!  |
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Post by silver on Aug 23, 2015 12:18:08 GMT -5
I think most people know the diff between being awake and sensing/smelling spaghetti cooking on the stove and some weird stuff that goes on in our sleep. I don't think anyone interprets dreams at night as 'real' and they know that dreams may be symbolic or just nonsense. But this can't be known when you are in dream. Wow, I said that? back then? Doesn't even sound like me, but oh well. Anyhoo...I think sometimes, peeps can tell they're dreaming or have a sense of it, even while still asleep and dreaming. But I don't recall this conversation anyway, so whatev.  |
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Post by silver on Aug 23, 2015 12:25:43 GMT -5
This is the crux of the matter, abandonment of responsibility.. those that can, do, and those that can't, make excuses.. it's the same reaction Buddha had when he realized his parents duped him, to claim that Life is suffering and that by pretending there's no 'you' to suffer it magically goes away.. it is the imbalance of pretending the other side of the coin doesn't exist, the side where what happens is directly brought about precisely by the effort of the experiencer.. denial is not the same as revealing what 'is'.. UG's beliefs are just more bright lights at the Spiritual Circus, stay at the Circus as long as you choose, but.. walk away from the circus and those illusions fade away.. Um, that's not the way I read it. Try to get a clearer picture of what the Buddha purportedly taught and you can start with reading Master Hahn's biography about the Buddha, Old Path White Clouds.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 12:32:31 GMT -5
But this can't be known when you are in dream. Anyhoo...I think sometimes, peeps can tell they're dreaming or have a sense of it, even while still asleep and dreaming. But I don't recall this conversation anyway, so whatev. Ha ha it's really funny! |
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 23, 2015 13:58:05 GMT -5
This is the crux of the matter, abandonment of responsibility.. those that can, do, and those that can't, make excuses.. it's the same reaction Buddha had when he realized his parents duped him, to claim that Life is suffering and that by pretending there's no 'you' to suffer it magically goes away.. it is the imbalance of pretending the other side of the coin doesn't exist, the side where what happens is directly brought about precisely by the effort of the experiencer.. denial is not the same as revealing what 'is'.. UG's beliefs are just more bright lights at the Spiritual Circus, stay at the Circus as long as you choose, but.. walk away from the circus and those illusions fade away.. Um, that's not the way I read it. Try to get a clearer picture of what the Buddha purportedly taught and you can start with reading Master Hahn's biography about the Buddha, Old Path White Clouds. I've read much about this Buddha person, we've understood our readings differently.. |
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 23, 2015 14:52:31 GMT -5
Studying texts and stiff meditation
can make you lose your Original Mind.
A solitary tune by a fisherman, though,
can be an invaluable treasure.
Dusk rain on the river,
the moon peeking in and out of the clouds;
Elegant beyond words,
he chants his songs night after night.
~ Ikkyu ~
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Post by silver on Aug 25, 2015 11:43:10 GMT -5
Um, that's not the way I read it. Try to get a clearer picture of what the Buddha purportedly taught and you can start with reading Master Hahn's biography about the Buddha, Old Path White Clouds. I've read much about this Buddha person, we've understood our readings differently.. Well...would it hurt you to read just one more book about him? |
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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2015 19:57:25 GMT -5
I agree, he's pretty clear with his words. It wasn't my intention to paraphrase what he said. Do you want to discuss it or do you just want to tell me I'm wrong? UG: "this cannot be brought about through any effort of yours; it just happens. And why it happens to one individual and not another, I don't know... It happened to me... whatever you do in the direction of whatever you are after -- the pursuit or search for truth or reality -- takes you away from your own very natural state, in which you always are. It's not something you can acquire, attain or accomplish as a result of your effort -- that is why I use the word `acausal'. It has no cause, but somehow the search come to an end... the search takes you away from yourself -- it is in the opposite direction -- it has absolutely no relation...All that you do makes it impossible for what already is there to express itself. That is why I call this 'your natural state'. You're always in that state. What prevents what is there from expressing itself in its own way is the search. The search is always in the wrong direction, so all that you consider very profound, all that you consider sacred, is a contamination in that consciousness. You may not like the word 'contamination', but all that you consider sacred, holy and profound is a contamination. So, there's nothing that you can do. It's not in your hands. I don't like to use the word 'grace', because if you use the word 'grace', the grace of whom? You are not a specially chosen individual; you deserve this, I don't know why. If it were possible for me, I would be able to help somebody. This is something which I can't give, because you have it. Why should I give it to you? It is ridiculous to ask for a thing which you already have... it is not a question of feeling it, it is not a question of knowing it; you will never know. You have no way of knowing that at all for yourself; it begins to express itself. There is no conscious.... You see, I don't know how to put it. Never does the thought that I am different from anybody come into my consciousness..." Why would I make you wrong? I don't have that intention. I am saying that he is not meaning what you mean. Seeing doesn't even have a place in impersonal movement as well. His words are very clear, 'whatever you do in the direction of whatever you are after'. The same happened to me, That's what I would like to call that incident as grace. If you read the entire paragraph, he understood that that incident is not because of human, but he also doesn't want to call them a grace because it involves someone, So he dismisses. Did you think I was assigning volition? |
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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2015 20:25:40 GMT -5
If you can see yourself as non-volitional, you might let go of the need to control and to judge yourself and others for their misbehavior. You might also begin to question what makes your particular sock puppet separate from other sock puppets. Actually all your ideas arises from God has fallen into his dream, If you know the truth 'nothing can be done' then universe re-orchestrate in such a way that situation would not make you angry, but you are not giving the power to appearance unfortunately. You can't separate yourself from what's happening. No idea what you're trying to say. The 'God has fallen into his own dream' is just kind of a fun thing to say cuz it scares peeps. It's not a particularly important idea unless you're attached to an idea that contradicts it. It's basically a no-brainer. All there is, is Consciousness. Hencely, Consciousness is dreaming it's own dream. There isn't something else. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2015 20:29:48 GMT -5
But you said anger happens because WE love. That which expresses anger is not that which is the source of love. The source of love is impersonal. Isn't it both created by Consciousness? One might be out of ignorance, one might be out of correct knowledge? One is the source of an expression, the other is the expression. They are not two, but we can't say the expression is the source of the expression. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2015 20:31:50 GMT -5
This is the crux of the matter, abandonment of responsibility.. those that can, do, and those that can't, make excuses.. it's the same reaction Buddha had when he realized his parents duped him, to claim that Life is suffering and that by pretending there's no 'you' to suffer it magically goes away.. it is the imbalance of pretending the other side of the coin doesn't exist, the side where what happens is directly brought about precisely by the effort of the experiencer.. denial is not the same as revealing what 'is'.. UG's beliefs are just more bright lights at the Spiritual Circus, stay at the Circus as long as you choose, but.. walk away from the circus and those illusions fade away.. UG is pointing to something far beyond your ability to comprehend. He's not saying abandon responsibility. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2015 20:33:27 GMT -5
The second paragraph is the beautiful way of telling people about Objective reality. All right, So you say the rock doesn't exist when you are not looking it? Isn't it Laughter? .. Raj ... doooooood ... stop thinking about it man! But he was created for that purpose! It's predetermined!  |
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.. Raj ... doooooood ... stop thinking about it man! 
