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Post by Reefs on Sept 21, 2014 6:18:53 GMT -5
Morality
UG: What is morality? It is not the following of enjoined rules of conduct. It is not a question of standing above temptations, or of conquering hate, anger, greed, lust and violence. Questioning your actions before and after creates the moral problem. What is responsible for this situation is the faculty of distinguishing between right and wrong and influencing your actions accordingly.
Life is action. Unquestioned action is morality. Questioning your actions is destroying the expression of life. A person who lets life act in its own way without the protective movement of thought has no self to defend. What need will he have to lie or cheat or pretend or to commit any other act which his society considers immoral?
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Post by laughter on Sept 21, 2014 11:51:51 GMT -5
Outside the realm of experienceUG: You can never understand this; you can only experience this in terms of your past experience. This is outside the realm of experience. The natural state is acausal: it just happens. No communication is possible, and none necessary. The only thing that is real to you is the way you are functioning; it is an act of futility to relate my description to the way you are functioning. When you stop all this comparison, what is there is your natural state. Then you will not listen to anybody. Therein lies a trap for the literalist who would mistake a description for a prescription.  |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 22, 2014 12:18:32 GMT -5
Outside the realm of experienceUG: You can never understand this; you can only experience this in terms of your past experience. This is outside the realm of experience. The natural state is acausal: it just happens. No communication is possible, and none necessary. The only thing that is real to you is the way you are functioning; it is an act of futility to relate my description to the way you are functioning. When you stop all this comparison, what is there is your natural state. Then you will not listen to anybody. Therein lies a trap for the literalist who would mistake a description for a prescription. The seeker is usually a literalist and will construct a path from every word - not matter how weird.  |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 23, 2014 12:16:23 GMT -5
Meaningless twaddle
UG: If you play back a tape of this conversation, it will make no sense to me. Yesterday I was listening to a tape of me talking in Bangalore -- "What is this fellow saying? All this is meaningless twaddle. I wouldn't listen to that chap." That tape is a dead thing. It may be my words, but it has no meaning to me. Forget it! Burn it! Throw it away! This is just a machine responding to the stimuli of your questions. You have created the problem of their 'answers'; I am not involved. I have no commitment to consistency, I have no viewpoint to put forward, no thesis to expound; I only respond to your stimulus.
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Post by enigma on Sept 23, 2014 12:27:08 GMT -5
I propose that we adopt a new acronym as a means of promoting greater confusion and bewilderment. MT  |
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Post by laughter on Sept 23, 2014 12:51:27 GMT -5
MoralityUG: What is morality? It is not the following of enjoined rules of conduct. It is not a question of standing above temptations, or of conquering hate, anger, greed, lust and violence. Questioning your actions before and after creates the moral problem. What is responsible for this situation is the faculty of distinguishing between right and wrong and influencing your actions accordingly. Life is action. Unquestioned action is morality. Questioning your actions is destroying the expression of life. A person who lets life act in its own way without the protective movement of thought has no self to defend. What need will he have to lie or cheat or pretend or to commit any other act which his society considers immoral? Commonsensical and direct to a fault. No Virginia, the absence of morals is not amorality.  |
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Post by laughter on Sept 23, 2014 12:54:40 GMT -5
Meaningless twaddleUG: If you play back a tape of this conversation, it will make no sense to me. Yesterday I was listening to a tape of me talking in Bangalore -- "What is this fellow saying? All this is meaningless twaddle. I wouldn't listen to that chap." That tape is a dead thing. It may be my words, but it has no meaning to me. Forget it! Burn it! Throw it away! This is just a machine responding to the stimuli of your questions. You have created the problem of their 'answers'; I am not involved. I have no commitment to consistency, I have no viewpoint to put forward, no thesis to expound; I only respond to your stimulus.  "You see nothing! Not even THIS!!" How can ya' not love this guy?? |
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Post by laughter on Sept 23, 2014 12:56:00 GMT -5
I propose that we adopt a new acronym as a means of promoting greater confusion and bewilderment. MT <mt> likes the same post twice! </mt> |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 24, 2014 0:54:42 GMT -5
I propose that we adopt a new acronym as a means of promoting greater confusion and bewilderment. MT I'm all in. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 24, 2014 0:55:57 GMT -5
MoralityUG: What is morality? It is not the following of enjoined rules of conduct. It is not a question of standing above temptations, or of conquering hate, anger, greed, lust and violence. Questioning your actions before and after creates the moral problem. What is responsible for this situation is the faculty of distinguishing between right and wrong and influencing your actions accordingly. Life is action. Unquestioned action is morality. Questioning your actions is destroying the expression of life. A person who lets life act in its own way without the protective movement of thought has no self to defend. What need will he have to lie or cheat or pretend or to commit any other act which his society considers immoral? Commonsensical and direct to a fault. No Virginia, the absence of morals is not amorality. Yeah, moralists live mediocre lives. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 24, 2014 0:56:44 GMT -5
Meaningless twaddleUG: If you play back a tape of this conversation, it will make no sense to me. Yesterday I was listening to a tape of me talking in Bangalore -- "What is this fellow saying? All this is meaningless twaddle. I wouldn't listen to that chap." That tape is a dead thing. It may be my words, but it has no meaning to me. Forget it! Burn it! Throw it away! This is just a machine responding to the stimuli of your questions. You have created the problem of their 'answers'; I am not involved. I have no commitment to consistency, I have no viewpoint to put forward, no thesis to expound; I only respond to your stimulus. "You see nothing! Not even THIS!!" How can ya' not love this guy?? He's quite a rascal, isn't he? |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 1, 2014 23:16:06 GMT -5
Personality will remain the same
UG: The personality does not change when you come into this state. You are, after all, a computer machine, which reacts as it has been programmed. It is in fact your present effort to change yourself that is taking you away from yourself and keeping you from functioning in the natural way. The personality will remain the same. Don't expect such a man to become free from anger or idiosyncrasies. Don't expect some kind of spiritual humility. Such a man may be the most arrogant person you have ever met, because he is touching life at a unique place where no man has touched before.
It is for this reason that each person who comes into this state expresses it in a unique way, in terms relevant to his time. It is also for this reason that if two or more people are living in this state at the same time, they will never get together. They won't dance in the streets hand in hand: "We are all self-realized men! We belong!"
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Post by laughter on Oct 2, 2014 2:28:39 GMT -5
Personality will remain the sameUG: The personality does not change when you come into this state. You are, after all, a computer machine, which reacts as it has been programmed. It is in fact your present effort to change yourself that is taking you away from yourself and keeping you from functioning in the natural way. The personality will remain the same. Don't expect such a man to become free from anger or idiosyncrasies. Don't expect some kind of spiritual humility. Such a man may be the most arrogant person you have ever met, because he is touching life at a unique place where no man has touched before. It is for this reason that each person who comes into this state expresses it in a unique way, in terms relevant to his time. It is also for this reason that if two or more people are living in this state at the same time, they will never get together. They won't dance in the streets hand in hand: "We are all self-realized men! We belong!" This casts the expectation that someday everyone will have a perpetugasm together in some great mystical worldwide bunnyshift as rather silly. It's interesting to watch the correspondence in which pointers are taken as ideas to be either intellectualized or used as the basis for the description of a subjective feeling experience. The ones doing the thinking about and describing feelings based on the pointers are told to throw them away, and the dialog becomes about illuminating the false reasoning that is, sometimes, quite deftly applied in order to construct a plausible and seductive interpretation of what the pointers mean. The bottom line in every dialog is, however, that those interpretations that are the subject of dismantling, always assign some sort of definite meaning to what can only ever be indirectly expressed. That U.G. quote about the person reminds me of this Niz quote about teacher and student. (From Chapter 92 of "I AM THAT", "Go Beyond the 'I am the body' idea")Niz: People differ. But all are faced with the fact of their own existence. 'I am' is the ultimate fact; 'Who am I'? is the ultimate question to which everybody must find an answer. Q: The same answer? Niz: The same in essence, varied in expression. Each seeker accepts or invents a method which suits him, applies it to himself with some earnestness and effort, obtains results according to his temperament and expectations, casts them into the mould of words, builds them into a system, establishes a tradition and begins to admit others into his 'school of yoga.' It is all built on memory and imagination. No such school is valueless nor indispensable; in each, one can progress up to the point when all desire for progress must be abandoned to make further progress possible. Then all schools are given up, all effort ceases; in solitude and darkness, the last step is made which ends ignorance and fear forever. The true teacher, however, will not imprison his disciple in a prescribed set of ideas, feelings and actions; on the contrary, he will show him patiently the need to be free from all ideas and set patterns of behavior, to be vigilant, and earnest and go with life wherever it takes him, not to enjoy or suffer, but to understand and learn. Under the right teacher, the disciple learns to learn, not to remember and obey. Satsang, the company of the noble, does not mould, it liberates. Beware of all that makes you dependent. Most of the so-called "surrenders to the guru' end in disappointment, if not in tragedy. Fortunately, an earnest seeker will disentangle himself in time, the wiser for the experience. Now if someone who is still really a student takes on the role of teacher, I wouldn't expect the exact same dynamic that Niz relates there, regardless of whatever characteristics might be ascribed to the one interacting with the false teacher. Both U.G. and Niz, describe someone still engaged in the effort to change themselves as a student. If someone is still engaged in an effort to change themselves, but disclaims that, what role have they taken on? |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 4, 2014 0:53:48 GMT -5
The body treats pleasure and pain alike (1)
UG: There is no permanence. The attempt to attain permanent happiness and uninterrupted pleasure is only choking the body, doing it violence. Your search for happiness only succeeds in destroying the sensitivity and intelligence of the nervous system. Wanting what does not exist -- the romantic, religious, spiritual stuff -- only adds momentum to that false continuity which destroys the body. It is radically disturbing the chemical balance of the body. The body, which is only interested in survival and procreation, treats both pain and pleasure alike. It is YOU who insist on stopping pain and extending pleasure. The body's response to both pleasure and pain is the same -- it groans.
What does the body want? It doesn't want anything except to function. All other things are the inventions of thought. The body has no separate independent existence of its own apart from pleasure and pain. The various vibrations affecting the body may differ in intensity, but it is you who divide them into good and bad.
You are constantly translating vibrations that hit the body into experiences. You touch the table and it is "hard", you touch the pillow and it is "soft", you touch the woman's arm there and it is "sexy", and you touch the doorknob and it is "not-sexy". Without the constant translation of the sensory activity you have no way of knowing if something is hard, or soft, or sexy. The body's natural intelligence is correctly "processing" the sensory input without your having to do a thing. It is similar to how the body turns over many times during sleep without your being aware of it, much less trying to control it. The body is handling itself.
You are all the time interfering with the natural functioning of the nervous system. When a sensation hits your nervous system the first thing you do is to name it and categorize it as pleasure or pain. The next step is that you want to continue the pleasurable sensations and stop the painful sensations. First, the recognition of a sensation as pleasure or pain is itself painful. Second, the attempt to extend the life of one kind of sensation ("pleasure"), and to stop another kind of sensation ("pain"), is also painful. Both activities are choking the body. In the very nature of things every sensation has its own intensity and duration. The attempt to extend pleasure and stop pain only succeeds in destroying the sensitivity of the body and its ability to respond to sensations. So, what you are doing is very painful for the body.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 4, 2014 1:14:47 GMT -5
Personality will remain the sameUG: The personality does not change when you come into this state. You are, after all, a computer machine, which reacts as it has been programmed. It is in fact your present effort to change yourself that is taking you away from yourself and keeping you from functioning in the natural way. The personality will remain the same. Don't expect such a man to become free from anger or idiosyncrasies. Don't expect some kind of spiritual humility. Such a man may be the most arrogant person you have ever met, because he is touching life at a unique place where no man has touched before. It is for this reason that each person who comes into this state expresses it in a unique way, in terms relevant to his time. It is also for this reason that if two or more people are living in this state at the same time, they will never get together. They won't dance in the streets hand in hand: "We are all self-realized men! We belong!" This casts the expectation that someday everyone will have a perpetugasm together in some great mystical worldwide bunnyshift as rather silly. It's interesting to watch the correspondence in which pointers are taken as ideas to be either intellectualized or used as the basis for the description of a subjective feeling experience. The ones doing the thinking about and describing feelings based on the pointers are told to throw them away, and the dialog becomes about illuminating the false reasoning that is, sometimes, quite deftly applied in order to construct a plausible and seductive interpretation of what the pointers mean. The bottom line in every dialog is, however, that those interpretations that are the subject of dismantling, always assign some sort of definite meaning to what can only ever be indirectly expressed. That U.G. quote about the person reminds me of this Niz quote about teacher and student. (From Chapter 92 of "I AM THAT", "Go Beyond the 'I am the body' idea")Niz: People differ. But all are faced with the fact of their own existence. 'I am' is the ultimate fact; 'Who am I'? is the ultimate question to which everybody must find an answer. Q: The same answer? Niz: The same in essence, varied in expression. Each seeker accepts or invents a method which suits him, applies it to himself with some earnestness and effort, obtains results according to his temperament and expectations, casts them into the mould of words, builds them into a system, establishes a tradition and begins to admit others into his 'school of yoga.' It is all built on memory and imagination. No such school is valueless nor indispensable; in each, one can progress up to the point when all desire for progress must be abandoned to make further progress possible. Then all schools are given up, all effort ceases; in solitude and darkness, the last step is made which ends ignorance and fear forever. The true teacher, however, will not imprison his disciple in a prescribed set of ideas, feelings and actions; on the contrary, he will show him patiently the need to be free from all ideas and set patterns of behavior, to be vigilant, and earnest and go with life wherever it takes him, not to enjoy or suffer, but to understand and learn. Under the right teacher, the disciple learns to learn, not to remember and obey. Satsang, the company of the noble, does not mould, it liberates. Beware of all that makes you dependent. Most of the so-called "surrenders to the guru' end in disappointment, if not in tragedy. Fortunately, an earnest seeker will disentangle himself in time, the wiser for the experience. Now if someone who is still really a student takes on the role of teacher, I wouldn't expect the exact same dynamic that Niz relates there, regardless of whatever characteristics might be ascribed to the one interacting with the false teacher. Both U.G. and Niz, describe someone still engaged in the effort to change themselves as a student. If someone is still engaged in an effort to change themselves, but disclaims that, what role have they taken on? You mean Ascension into the 5th dimension? |
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