Deleted
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page 72
Jun 25, 2014 12:34:28 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 12:34:28 GMT -5
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Post by relinquish on Jun 25, 2014 15:22:27 GMT -5
page 73?
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Post by relinquish on Jun 25, 2014 15:24:04 GMT -5
Sorry....I should first ask what you mean.
What do you mean, Max?
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Deleted
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page 72
Jun 25, 2014 15:43:16 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 15:43:16 GMT -5
Sorry....I should first ask what you mean. What do you mean, Max? No, you were right. I mean wrong. I'll edit the original to provide a teeny bit of context. Not enough to help.
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page 72
Jun 25, 2014 16:02:47 GMT -5
Post by silence on Jun 25, 2014 16:02:47 GMT -5
Now you torture the old man until he takes back what he said.
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page 72
Jun 25, 2014 16:10:03 GMT -5
Post by quinn on Jun 25, 2014 16:10:03 GMT -5
Are you questioning the value of having the volition/no volition question all wrapped up?
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page 72
Jun 25, 2014 17:59:40 GMT -5
Post by earnest on Jun 25, 2014 17:59:40 GMT -5
Awesome! *gets up to go look in the fridge for more breakfast*
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page 72
Jun 25, 2014 20:52:58 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Jun 25, 2014 20:52:58 GMT -5
I neither agree nor disagree!
(** throws book on the campfire **)
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Deleted
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page 72
Jun 26, 2014 9:40:16 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 9:40:16 GMT -5
Are you questioning the value of having the volition/no volition question all wrapped up? Well I didn't start out with any question. I was looking for good cartoons dealing with free will. Found a few. One of them referred to page 72, so I made page 72 but wasn't sure what to put in the post box. So I put 'now what?' in there -- a belch from a clever/bewildered perspective, my specialitee. But I like your question; it's very well articulated and interesting. The free will/volition question feels to me like the self question. Once the assumption of it's existence is pondered openly, I don't really have a sense of it anymore. And I have difficulty even remembering having a sense of it. Probably because there was none, it was just assumed. The only time I see sparks fly is when I bring it up in conversation with folks who haven't pondered it openly. But maybe, as Tzu argues, I'm just brainwashing myself because of all of these cool spiritual idols here.
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page 72
Jun 26, 2014 17:16:49 GMT -5
Post by quinn on Jun 26, 2014 17:16:49 GMT -5
Are you questioning the value of having the volition/no volition question all wrapped up? Well I didn't start out with any question. I was looking for good cartoons dealing with free will. Found a few. One of them referred to page 72, so I made page 72 but wasn't sure what to put in the post box. So I put 'now what?' in there -- a belch from a clever/bewildered perspective, my specialitee. But I like your question; it's very well articulated and interesting. The free will/volition question feels to me like the self question. Once the assumption of it's existence is pondered openly, I don't really have a sense of it anymore. And I have difficulty even remembering having a sense of it. Probably because there was none, it was just assumed. The only time I see sparks fly is when I bring it up in conversation with folks who haven't pondered it openly. But maybe, as Tzu argues, I'm just brainwashing myself because of all of these cool spiritual idols here. Somehow I don't think you quite believe that last sentence. To me the value is in moving the focus to the action, rather than focusing on a person's apparent choice to take that action. Seems more productive. Been around addiction all my life and I've yet to see where it's helpful to hold onto blame. Other than that, though, we still end up on Page 72, doing what we were going to do anyway.
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page 72
Jun 26, 2014 21:36:05 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2014 21:36:05 GMT -5
Are you questioning the value of having the volition/no volition question all wrapped up? Well I didn't start out with any question. I was looking for good cartoons dealing with free will. Found a few. One of them referred to page 72, so I made page 72 but wasn't sure what to put in the post box. So I put 'now what?' in there -- a belch from a clever/bewildered perspective, my specialitee. But I like your question; it's very well articulated and interesting. The free will/volition question feels to me like the self question. Once the assumption of it's existence is pondered openly, I don't really have a sense of it anymore. And I have difficulty even remembering having a sense of it. Probably because there was none, it was just assumed. The only time I see sparks fly is when I bring it up in conversation with folks who haven't pondered it openly. But maybe, as Tzu argues, I'm just brainwashing myself because of all of these cool spiritual idols here. You don't seem so sure after all. It's true that one can see thru the question of volition by mere intellectual investigation. But that's just a play with ideas, i.e. without any real consequences.
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page 72
Jun 26, 2014 21:40:13 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2014 21:40:13 GMT -5
Well I didn't start out with any question. I was looking for good cartoons dealing with free will. Found a few. One of them referred to page 72, so I made page 72 but wasn't sure what to put in the post box. So I put 'now what?' in there -- a belch from a clever/bewildered perspective, my specialitee. But I like your question; it's very well articulated and interesting. The free will/volition question feels to me like the self question. Once the assumption of it's existence is pondered openly, I don't really have a sense of it anymore. And I have difficulty even remembering having a sense of it. Probably because there was none, it was just assumed. The only time I see sparks fly is when I bring it up in conversation with folks who haven't pondered it openly. But maybe, as Tzu argues, I'm just brainwashing myself because of all of these cool spiritual idols here. Somehow I don't think you quite believe that last sentence. To me the value is in moving the focus to the action, rather than focusing on a person's apparent choice to take that action. Seems more productive. Been around addiction all my life and I've yet to see where it's helpful to hold onto blame. Other than that, though, we still end up on Page 72, doing what we were going to do anyway. Why would you have to end up on page 72?
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page 72
Jun 27, 2014 4:49:54 GMT -5
Post by quinn on Jun 27, 2014 4:49:54 GMT -5
Somehow I don't think you quite believe that last sentence. To me the value is in moving the focus to the action, rather than focusing on a person's apparent choice to take that action. Seems more productive. Been around addiction all my life and I've yet to see where it's helpful to hold onto blame. Other than that, though, we still end up on Page 72, doing what we were going to do anyway. Why would you have to end up on page 72? I'm using it the way the cartoon did: You end up doing what you were going to do, no matter what your beliefs are about volition or no-volition. The belief doesn't change the outcome.
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page 72
Jun 27, 2014 4:57:52 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Jun 27, 2014 4:57:52 GMT -5
Why would you have to end up on page 72? I'm using it the way the cartoon did: You end up doing what you were going to do, no matter what your beliefs are about volition or no-volition. The belief doesn't change the outcome. The point of the joke is that turning to page 72 is not a foregone conclusion. It only happens if there's an opinion involved.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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page 72
Jun 27, 2014 7:33:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 7:33:26 GMT -5
Well I didn't start out with any question. I was looking for good cartoons dealing with free will. Found a few. One of them referred to page 72, so I made page 72 but wasn't sure what to put in the post box. So I put 'now what?' in there -- a belch from a clever/bewildered perspective, my specialitee. But I like your question; it's very well articulated and interesting. The free will/volition question feels to me like the self question. Once the assumption of it's existence is pondered openly, I don't really have a sense of it anymore. And I have difficulty even remembering having a sense of it. Probably because there was none, it was just assumed. The only time I see sparks fly is when I bring it up in conversation with folks who haven't pondered it openly. But maybe, as Tzu argues, I'm just brainwashing myself because of all of these cool spiritual idols here. Somehow I don't think you quite believe that last sentence. To me the value is in moving the focus to the action, rather than focusing on a person's apparent choice to take that action. Seems more productive. Been around addiction all my life and I've yet to see where it's helpful to hold onto blame. Other than that, though, we still end up on Page 72, doing what we were going to do anyway. Yea, it's moot.
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