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Post by Peter on Sept 16, 2009 7:18:17 GMT -5
WOW....You know maybe I got off on the wrong foot here. I meant no ill will here, I was just sharing my experience of my awakening moment of which was a few years ago.....hell I got slammed with that one, two punch. Hi Dramos, I don't think anyone thought you had ill will. Just that you might (and did) meet resistance with a "this is how it is" approach, rather than "this is how I see it". When you come in offering something and it's not taken up, I know how painful that can be. But coming back to read this page in a few months, you may find that your rebuffing wasn't as harsh as it might have felt at the time. I was interested to note that in your introduction posting I found your turn of phrase so...different...that I asked you where you were from. And yet in your posting that I've quoted here, you come over as "normal". Not that any such thing exists, perhaps I should say: within the range of what I'm used to. You sound more like an authentic self, rather than the projected impression that you want others to receive. From this poster at least, there are no bad feelings. None here either. I'm pleased to hear that LightMystic was playing, it's unlike him to be so brusque. As well as posting here, you might like to look at www.experienceproject.com if you have stories to share with the wider public. Please let me know if you do post elsewhere, I'd love to read them. Especially as I also had a brush with the medical establishment which was very much part of an awakening experience. Anonji - I've really appreciated your contribution to this thread. Peter |
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Post by lightmystic on Sept 16, 2009 11:26:28 GMT -5
I was brusque?! Aw...My bad. For some reason, the word brusque always sounds like a type of cookie to me.... WOW....You know maybe I got off on the wrong foot here. I meant no ill will here, I was just sharing my experience of my awakening moment of which was a few years ago.....hell I got slammed with that one, two punch. Hi Dramos, I don't think anyone thought you had ill will. Just that you might (and did) meet resistance with a "this is how it is" approach, rather than "this is how I see it". When you come in offering something and it's not taken up, I know how painful that can be. But coming back to read this page in a few months, you may find that your rebuffing wasn't as harsh as it might have felt at the time. I was interested to note that in your introduction posting I found your turn of phrase so...different...that I asked you where you were from. And yet in your posting that I've quoted here, you come over as "normal". Not that any such thing exists, perhaps I should say: within the range of what I'm used to. You sound more like an authentic self, rather than the projected impression that you want others to receive. From this poster at least, there are no bad feelings. None here either. I'm pleased to hear that LightMystic was playing, it's unlike him to be so brusque. As well as posting here, you might like to look at www.experienceproject.com if you have stories to share with the wider public. Please let me know if you do post elsewhere, I'd love to read them. Especially as I also had a brush with the medical establishment which was very much part of an awakening experience. Anonji - I've really appreciated your contribution to this thread. Peter |
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Post by lightmystic on Sept 17, 2009 11:11:41 GMT -5
I wonder why all the drama around our friend dramos?
The does the name give rise to the situation? Obviously it was unintentional on everyone's part....
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Post by vacant on Sept 17, 2009 15:24:41 GMT -5
Seems to me like we DO all want to learn/remember, even though it rarely looks like it at all, and you know for me, in that "want" is where the Guardian Angel dwells. Can't believe I'm using words like that, ain't religious. POSTSCRIPT: ooops! never mind this post. I got confused between pages 1 & 2 of this thread and typed in the wrong place  |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 19, 2009 14:46:39 GMT -5
Dramos: I think your last post gave some of us a bit more insight into your past experiences. You have clearly lived through some difficult situations and relationships, but I think you will find a great deal of support and encouragement on this board. Parents often create enormous hardship for their children when they try to indoctrinate them with rigid belief systems, but I'm glad that you survived and were not crushed by ideas that conflicted with what you intuited about the real world. If you can let go of your past and reconnect with the beauty, wonder, and mystery of the present moment, then you'll do well. Here's wishing you the deepest peace and joy. Take care.
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Post by dramos on Sept 20, 2009 19:14:51 GMT -5
I just wanted to share an experience toward an inward understanding. I have come to realize the importance of taking time to be aware of all that is around us, only because for me these things teach me the direction of my own life, so to speak.
This is a true example:
My father-in-law and I each have a garden of which I help him out with his, for his health is not the greatest. One morning I went along with him to pick some crops, I began picking tomatoes. The further I went down the row I noticed how the weeds began taking over this one section, so I began to pull them out. I remember coming to this one tomato plant in particular of which a vine began entangling itself around this plant, this vine was a morning glory which has beautiful flowers on it. I took notice to how well this tomato plant had grown in part due to this vine holding the entire plant together, allowing it to grow upwards, away from the ground. So I began removing this vine that had inner twinned itself around the plant and redirecting the plant back towards the cage so that it would still grow but without the aid of this vine. When I came to the last stem, of the tomato plant, I noticed how much thicker it was and pushing out further than the rest only in part to how well the vine had been aiding it. So upon removing this vine I made sure to hold onto the stem, for it would have fell and broke, which would have severed it's life supply of producing it's fruits. I re-directed it so that it would be able to maintain it's growth to producing of it's fruit's of which made some real good tomato sandwiches.
Now as I was working with this plant, I was actually looking at this whole thing from another prospective. That of life itself (now follow this to the end because the point is not being made here). I first visualized how our whole world is growing, bunched up together with this "vine" and as beautiful as this vine was in aiding us along ultimately it would have strangled the life right out of us. Then I visualized this separate, thicker stem growing out on it's own, still with the aid of the vine, trying to break free of it's grip but couldn't without some aid. I had visualized this as myself, trying to break free of the holds of the vine as well as separating from the main plant. I have always used the phrases, we and us because I feel we are all as one, equal; I have a sincere, heartfelt compassion for everything of this earth of which is why I had looked at this plant in that way. This "vine" , to me, was pictured as comforts for the physical being, for as beautiful as it is, ultimately, with it's grasp, keeps us away from finding our true spirit of which strangles and eventually aids toward a dieing of spirit.
After a week or so pondering over this I began looking at this another way. The plant and vine could represent myself, the plant representing my physical being, the vine as comforts to the physical as well as old ways and the thicker stem of the plant my spiritual growth. Coming into this world I only knew of the physical senses, a time later was introduced to spiritual aspects of life. Now at this point of life I have become aware to that of my spiritual self.
Being of physical I became more involved with the comforts of the senses, all it's pleasures but these things were not always satisfying and I never understood why. The vine had it's grip but I did not know because these things seemed too "beautiful" to pass or give up. As I began a more spiritual study and trying to understand what it was that I was trying to discover, the vine entageled itself more, enticing me with it's "senses" . So I pushed more and more strengthening my stem, working away from the physical but some of this vine still had it's grasp, this time testing spiritual aspects toward my own discoveries, challenging this new growth being misleading at times and pulling me in other directions.
Part of the reason I came to this site was to get "aid" , if you will, to loosen the rest of this vine, that still has somewhat of a grasp. I have attained a better understanding of my spiritual growth to where more and more of these senses have become part of a past life, I feel no need to comfort the physical, selfish desires and with that have a more clearer understanding of my spiritual self. One of the areas I needed help in understanding was the aspects of how to help others. I have tendencies where I felt the need to share with others what I've come to understand. The short time that I have been here you have given me that answer, so then I came to realize that these things I have been experiencing have been for my own, personal spiritual growth. I know of my core self and how it is I view things but I cannot assume this is the case with everyone else around me. Since this I have become more aware not to influence people with my own personal line of thought but rather by my actions in consideration to their needs.
This was just something I wanted to share.
Peace and Love
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Post by divinity on Sept 20, 2009 20:53:21 GMT -5
Very to the point and quite inspiring... and a validation... thanks Dramos!
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anonji
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by anonji on Sept 21, 2009 9:00:36 GMT -5
Dramos, you think you need our "aid" to help you in your spiritual journey. But I think you are doing fine on your own. Your contemplative/reflective style is the essence of the spiritual journey from my point of view. We might all learn from your slow and easy-going way. What you could learn here is more of the social aspects (ie. how to communicate better to others), which as solitary on the path you tend you ignore. I'm very glad you came to join us. Now ponder that!
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Post by lightmystic on Sept 21, 2009 10:08:05 GMT -5
Hey Dramos, Thanks for sharing. I would love to hear, if you would share (and you can respond here or post in a new thread - which my not be a bad idea) what your experience is right this moment. What is your experience of your self and that relationship to everything else in this moment? I would very much like to hear your expression of that and the details of that. I'm quite looking forward to it!  LM I just wanted to share an experience toward an inward understanding. I have come to realize the importance of taking time to be aware of all that is around us, only because for me these things teach me the direction of my own life, so to speak. This is a true example: My father-in-law and I each have a garden of which I help him out with his, for his health is not the greatest. One morning I went along with him to pick some crops, I began picking tomatoes. The further I went down the row I noticed how the weeds began taking over this one section, so I began to pull them out. I remember coming to this one tomato plant in particular of which a vine began entangling itself around this plant, this vine was a morning glory which has beautiful flowers on it. I took notice to how well this tomato plant had grown in part due to this vine holding the entire plant together, allowing it to grow upwards, away from the ground. So I began removing this vine that had inner twinned itself around the plant and redirecting the plant back towards the cage so that it would still grow but without the aid of this vine. When I came to the last stem, of the tomato plant, I noticed how much thicker it was and pushing out further than the rest only in part to how well the vine had been aiding it. So upon removing this vine I made sure to hold onto the stem, for it would have fell and broke, which would have severed it's life supply of producing it's fruits. I re-directed it so that it would be able to maintain it's growth to producing of it's fruit's of which made some real good tomato sandwiches. Now as I was working with this plant, I was actually looking at this whole thing from another prospective. That of life itself (now follow this to the end because the point is not being made here). I first visualized how our whole world is growing, bunched up together with this "vine" and as beautiful as this vine was in aiding us along ultimately it would have strangled the life right out of us. Then I visualized this separate, thicker stem growing out on it's own, still with the aid of the vine, trying to break free of it's grip but couldn't without some aid. I had visualized this as myself, trying to break free of the holds of the vine as well as separating from the main plant. I have always used the phrases, we and us because I feel we are all as one, equal; I have a sincere, heartfelt compassion for everything of this earth of which is why I had looked at this plant in that way. This "vine" , to me, was pictured as comforts for the physical being, for as beautiful as it is, ultimately, with it's grasp, keeps us away from finding our true spirit of which strangles and eventually aids toward a dieing of spirit. After a week or so pondering over this I began looking at this another way. The plant and vine could represent myself, the plant representing my physical being, the vine as comforts to the physical as well as old ways and the thicker stem of the plant my spiritual growth. Coming into this world I only knew of the physical senses, a time later was introduced to spiritual aspects of life. Now at this point of life I have become aware to that of my spiritual self. Being of physical I became more involved with the comforts of the senses, all it's pleasures but these things were not always satisfying and I never understood why. The vine had it's grip but I did not know because these things seemed too "beautiful" to pass or give up. As I began a more spiritual study and trying to understand what it was that I was trying to discover, the vine entageled itself more, enticing me with it's "senses" . So I pushed more and more strengthening my stem, working away from the physical but some of this vine still had it's grasp, this time testing spiritual aspects toward my own discoveries, challenging this new growth being misleading at times and pulling me in other directions. Part of the reason I came to this site was to get "aid" , if you will, to loosen the rest of this vine, that still has somewhat of a grasp. I have attained a better understanding of my spiritual growth to where more and more of these senses have become part of a past life, I feel no need to comfort the physical, selfish desires and with that have a more clearer understanding of my spiritual self. One of the areas I needed help in understanding was the aspects of how to help others. I have tendencies where I felt the need to share with others what I've come to understand. The short time that I have been here you have given me that answer, so then I came to realize that these things I have been experiencing have been for my own, personal spiritual growth. I know of my core self and how it is I view things but I cannot assume this is the case with everyone else around me. Since this I have become more aware not to influence people with my own personal line of thought but rather by my actions in consideration to their needs. This was just something I wanted to share. Peace and Love |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 21, 2009 10:54:47 GMT -5
Dramos: Your last post referred to an interesting aspect of the spiritual journey that is sometimes seriously misunderstood. Probably as a result of our Christian heritage, many people in our culture view anything related to the senses as negative, and anything related to mind or spirit as positive. This is why so many spiritual teachers have denied the body as if that activity would somehow elevate the spirit. In the Middle Ages this idea was carried to an extreme and people whipped themselves to punish the body and its senses. The idea was that anything related to our senses was of the world and anything related to heart or mind was of heaven. Too many people, out of ignorance, have thought to themselves, "I have high ideals, but my body's lusts betray me." These ideas come from what we might call a "hard-core dualistic perspective." By contrast, a unitive perspective focuses upon sensory experience as a direct path to self-realization. This has nothing to do sensory self-gratification; it bypasses selfhood completely by returning our focus to the real world (which includes the body). A very powerful meditative exercise is contemplation of the body and its functioning.
Think about it. Young children interact with the world almost solely through their senses. They do not live in their heads. They look, listen, smell, taste, and feel. They have not yet developed a strong sense of selfhood using reflective thought, so they are innocent, free, vibrantly alive, and generally joyous. If we, as adults, practice doing what children do--directly perceiving and interacting with the world--we begin to exhange the adult habit of reflective thought for their habit of direct perception. This has nothing to do with self-gratification or any kind of dualistic thought process.
It is revealing that the Pharisees reported that Jesus came "eating and drinking" with common people, as if that sort of thing was somehow unholy. The unitive perspective sees human life in its totality and celebrates all aspects of it. This is why some sages have said, "If you have sex, have it so fully that "you"disappear in the act!" We could apply the same maxim to any activity; if we do whatever we are doing so fully that "we" disappear in the doing of it, then we become unified with the action and selfhood is gone. I think this is what Jesus meant when he said that we should "become like little children," if we want to find the Kingdom of God.
You may already understand this issue completely, but I wanted to spell it out for anyone here who still sees the body and spirit as diametrically opposed or who thinks that focusing upon sensory perception is somehow unholy. Those who deny the body and its sense experiences are missing the picture completely. Cheers.
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Sid
New Member
Posts: 15
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Post by Sid on Sept 21, 2009 17:41:32 GMT -5
Awakening suggest we are asleep and dreaming as if the story of our life is real... Little do we realize that our everyday life is a fabrication of our own mind... Just as we are relieved when waking up from a nightmare, it can be a pleasant surprise to find out that there is a more pleasant reality waiting for us in the spiritual awakening.
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Post by divinity on Oct 3, 2009 16:18:01 GMT -5
Life is but a dream....
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