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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Sept 7, 2013 16:11:57 GMT -5
There's no way to convey with information the absence of information other than to refer to it indirectly by informing of the absence. The reason why you can't convey it is because you don't understand it, i.e. you don't know what you're talking about and you have confused yourself in the process.
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Post by laughter on Sept 7, 2013 16:13:21 GMT -5
There's no way to convey with information the absence of information other than to refer to it indirectly by informing of the absence. The reason why you can't convey it is because you don't understand it, i.e. you don't know what you're talking about and you have confused yourself in the process. ( _________________________________________________________________)
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Sept 7, 2013 16:14:27 GMT -5
The reason why you can't convey it is because you don't understand it, i.e. you don't know what you're talking about and you have confused yourself in the process. ( _________________________________________________________________) No trolling in my thread please. Thanks.
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Post by laughter on Sept 7, 2013 16:15:08 GMT -5
( _________________________________________________________________) No trolling in my thread please. Thanks.
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Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2013 23:31:18 GMT -5
Suffering tends to bring about those qualities. Curiosity can be very helpful. An endless array of experiences may lead one to value and emulate those qualities. A sense of futility may lead one to conclude there is no other option. Clarity and understanding are very helpful. I'm sure there are many more. I'm not sure how to turn it into a method. You're still evading my question. What you have so far said about how self-deception takes over seems to me like complete nonsense. Extremely speculative and full of contradictions. What you have said about cessation of self-deception is equally untenable. In the final result your argument basically amounts to a "self-deception stops because self-deception stops". I suggest that this logical error is what causes you to believe that there is no method to stop self-deception. Okay.
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Post by silence on Sept 8, 2013 7:44:08 GMT -5
This choice that's being referred to doesn't seem rational to the rational thinker. We are all deceived until the day we are not. This day happens when the small (s) in self sees(realization) the big(S) in Self. At which point the Divine hypnosis which RB refers to is undone. It's a profound understanding not of the mind but from a much more subtle body if you will. Nowhereman
For such a one rises above all others
Does the end of divine hypnosis also turn you white?
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Post by silence on Sept 8, 2013 7:47:43 GMT -5
Willingness, integrity and sincerity lead away from self-deception. In these terms, it's a matter of degree and it makes sense to speak in terms of a spectrum. To choose you have to have the options available and see these clearly. There's nothing subject to manipulation that can lead toward the absence that's pointed to by reference to self-realization but the unnecessary obstacles can be set aside and that's a different set of choices. Everyone to some degree has willingness, sincerity, curiosity, etc. The point is that in E's narrative they exactly do not address self-deception. Once these qualities do adress self-deception the deception according to E necessarily instantly ceases to function. That's why there is no process toward seeing through self-deception, and the whole thing effectively amounts to a "self-deception stopped because self-deception stopped". Those qualities aren't like measurable amounts or something that you can withdraw and apply to the right situation. Curiosity towards what? Willingness for what? You might be quite sincere and willing to do a great many things. You may also simultaneously be totally and completely unwilling to look clearly at the core of your self deception.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Sept 8, 2013 9:01:01 GMT -5
Everyone to some degree has willingness, sincerity, curiosity, etc. The point is that in E's narrative they exactly do not address self-deception. Once these qualities do adress self-deception the deception according to E necessarily instantly ceases to function. That's why there is no process toward seeing through self-deception, and the whole thing effectively amounts to a "self-deception stopped because self-deception stopped". Those qualities aren't like measurable amounts or something that you can withdraw and apply to the right situation. Curiosity towards what? Willingness for what? You might be quite sincere and willing to do a great many things. You may also simultaneously be totally and completely unwilling to look clearly at the core of your self deception. That's what I'm saying. The qualities address all kinds of things, and one can't be self-deceived about whatever they address. Self-deception can happen only about those things which the four qualities don't address.
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