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Post by nowhereman on Aug 31, 2013 17:45:04 GMT -5
I like the question and answer below. It explains a lot on why we continue to talk endlessly about non duality yet returning back again to go one more time and again and again and again. Finally to arrive @ No-where-Man lol Nowhereman
Question: “In Sri Nisargadatta’s talks the world is only in the perceiver’s mind. So would the person I am perceiving also be aware of me perceiving him?”
Answer: The question, as far as enquiry goes, is, “Who is the ‘me’ perceiving him or anything else?”
The “me”, like the world, is in the perceiver’s mind.
If it should become seen that the world is in the mind, then the questions of “me” and “him” dissolve in that seeing. There is only what is arising now and it is what it is.
All things are made of the same “stuff”, yet all things appear individualistic. The question of how things interact becomes moot at the point of seeing that all is exactly what it is in this instant. All questions dissolve in that moment.
Still, from the point of view of parapsychology and quantum theory and other disciplines, it is an interesting question about how perceivers are aware of each other. I don’t have all the theories and studies at hand to relate or summarize, nor are they the point of this response.
There is the day to day way of addressing questions, in this case by talking about parapsychology and quantum theory. And there is also the absolute way of addressing questions, in which questions are revealed to dissolve into that out of which they arose, like a wave out of the ocean.
Nisargadatta is sometimes “day to day” and sometimes absolute in his responses. Questions dissolve into the Absolute and get addressed at the day to day level, both.
The answer to the question is that there is no question, no “me” asking the question, and, at the very same time, there is an interaction between perceived and perceiver that quantum theory, parapsychology, psychology, physics, sociology, and other disciplines study and address.
There is no answer and there is an answer. Discussions about nonduality are presentations of paradox. Where the materialist (you and me?) calls out, “Show me the money!”, the nondualist gets on the phone and shouts, “Show me the paradox!
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Post by laughter on Aug 31, 2013 18:58:17 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about! So who wrote (or said) this 'man? <TMT> All things are made of the same “stuff”, yet all things appear individualistic. The question of how things interact becomes moot at the point of seeing that all is exactly what it is in this instant. All questions dissolve in that moment. The collective endeavor to figure out what that "stuff" is, based on the scientific method, ended with the collapse of the underlying assumption of an objective material reality ("stuff out there") shared by isolated instances of consciousness ("a me in here"). Still, from the point of view of parapsychology and quantum theory and other disciplines, it is an interesting question about how perceivers are aware of each other. So now the current fashion is to replace that old worldview with a new one that's just the old one turned inside out. The single objective material reality is replaced by a single shared consciousness from which our subjective physical experiences manifest. </TMT> This question is only of interest if there is interest in an expression in the form of ideation to the answer of the question of what we are.
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Post by nowhereman on Aug 31, 2013 19:15:32 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about! So who wrote (or said) this 'man? I cannot take the credit it was from Jerry Katz<TMT> All things are made of the same “stuff”, yet all things appear individualistic. The question of how things interact becomes moot at the point of seeing that all is exactly what it is in this instant. All questions dissolve in that moment. The collective endeavor to figure out what that "stuff" is, based on the scientific method, ended with the collapse of the underlying assumption of an objective material reality ("stuff out there") shared by isolated instances of consciousness ("a me in here"). Still, from the point of view of parapsychology and quantum theory and other disciplines, it is an interesting question about how perceivers are aware of each other. So now the current fashion is to replace that old worldview with a new one that's just the old one turned inside out. The single objective material reality is replaced by a single shared consciousness from our subjective physical experiences manifest. </TMT> This question is only of interest if there is interest in an expression in the form of ideation to the answer of the question of what we are. True and the ideation of that question of What we are? Will always be there until it's not and then you can say enlightenment has taken place..
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Post by laughter on Aug 31, 2013 19:16:42 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about! So who wrote (or said) this 'man? I cannot take the credit it was from Jerry Katz<TMT> The collective endeavor to figure out what that "stuff" is, based on the scientific method, ended with the collapse of the underlying assumption of an objective material reality ("stuff out there") shared by isolated instances of consciousness ("a me in here"). So now the current fashion is to replace that old worldview with a new one that's just the old one turned inside out. The single objective material reality is replaced by a single shared consciousness from our subjective physical experiences manifest. </TMT> This question is only of interest if there is interest in an expression in the form of ideation to the answer of the question of what we are. True and the ideation of that question of What we are? Will always be there until it's not and then you can say enlightenment has taken place..
(** muttley snicker **) Thanks for sharing what J.K. had to say 'man.
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Post by nowhereman on Aug 31, 2013 19:31:55 GMT -5
(** muttley snicker **) Thanks for sharing what J.K. had to say 'man. de nada
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Post by enigma on Aug 31, 2013 19:52:33 GMT -5
I like the question and answer below. It explains a lot on why we continue to talk endlessly about non duality yet returning back again to go one more time and again and again and again. Finally to arrive @ No-where-Man lol NowheremanQuestion: “In Sri Nisargadatta’s talks the world is only in the perceiver’s mind. So would the person I am perceiving also be aware of me perceiving him?” Answer: The question, as far as enquiry goes, is, “Who is the ‘me’ perceiving him or anything else?” The “me”, like the world, is in the perceiver’s mind. If it should become seen that the world is in the mind, then the questions of “me” and “him” dissolve in that seeing. There is only what is arising now and it is what it is. All things are made of the same “stuff”, yet all things appear individualistic. The question of how things interact becomes moot at the point of seeing that all is exactly what it is in this instant. All questions dissolve in that moment. Still, from the point of view of parapsychology and quantum theory and other disciplines, it is an interesting question about how perceivers are aware of each other. I don’t have all the theories and studies at hand to relate or summarize, nor are they the point of this response. There is the day to day way of addressing questions, in this case by talking about parapsychology and quantum theory. And there is also the absolute way of addressing questions, in which questions are revealed to dissolve into that out of which they arose, like a wave out of the ocean. Nisargadatta is sometimes “day to day” and sometimes absolute in his responses. Questions dissolve into the Absolute and get addressed at the day to day level, both. The answer to the question is that there is no question, no “me” asking the question, and, at the very same time, there is an interaction between perceived and perceiver that quantum theory, parapsychology, psychology, physics, sociology, and other disciplines study and address. Of course it is what it is. What else would it be? Andrew!
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Post by laughter on Aug 31, 2013 20:49:50 GMT -5
I like the question and answer below. It explains a lot on why we continue to talk endlessly about non duality yet returning back again to go one more time and again and again and again. Finally to arrive @ No-where-Man lol NowheremanQuestion: “In Sri Nisargadatta’s talks the world is only in the perceiver’s mind. So would the person I am perceiving also be aware of me perceiving him?” Answer: The question, as far as enquiry goes, is, “Who is the ‘me’ perceiving him or anything else?” The “me”, like the world, is in the perceiver’s mind. If it should become seen that the world is in the mind, then the questions of “me” and “him” dissolve in that seeing. There is only what is arising now and it is what it is. All things are made of the same “stuff”, yet all things appear individualistic. The question of how things interact becomes moot at the point of seeing that all is exactly what it is in this instant. All questions dissolve in that moment. Still, from the point of view of parapsychology and quantum theory and other disciplines, it is an interesting question about how perceivers are aware of each other. I don’t have all the theories and studies at hand to relate or summarize, nor are they the point of this response. There is the day to day way of addressing questions, in this case by talking about parapsychology and quantum theory. And there is also the absolute way of addressing questions, in which questions are revealed to dissolve into that out of which they arose, like a wave out of the ocean. Nisargadatta is sometimes “day to day” and sometimes absolute in his responses. Questions dissolve into the Absolute and get addressed at the day to day level, both. The answer to the question is that there is no question, no “me” asking the question, and, at the very same time, there is an interaction between perceived and perceiver that quantum theory, parapsychology, psychology, physics, sociology, and other disciplines study and address. Of course it is what it is. What else would it be? Andrew! Exactly, it's Andology 101: it is what it is unless it isn't!
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Post by enigma on Aug 31, 2013 21:19:43 GMT -5
Of course it is what it is. What else would it be? Andrew! Exactly, it's Andology 101: it is what it is unless it isn't! Was that really Jiddu K? What a moran.
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Post by laughter on Aug 31, 2013 21:26:23 GMT -5
Exactly, it's Andology 101: it is what it is unless it isn't! Was that really Jiddu K? What a moran. Nah, some cat named Jerry Katz ...
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Post by enigma on Aug 31, 2013 21:55:39 GMT -5
Was that really Jiddu K? What a moran. Nah, some cat named Jerry Katz ... Oh, Lordy. Jerry and I have some history.
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Post by nowhereman on Aug 31, 2013 22:01:16 GMT -5
Nah, some cat named Jerry Katz ... Oh, Lordy. Jerry and I have some history. Ok sharing is caring please share E!
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Post by enigma on Aug 31, 2013 22:31:30 GMT -5
Oh, Lordy. Jerry and I have some history. Ok sharing is caring please share E! I was on the Nonduality Salon for a while. I don't really recall if he banned me to the wilderness or if I wandered off on my own. It was a time of uncertainty for Jerry as to what direction he wanted to go. He wanted to "take it to the streets" in some way and save the masses or whatever, so I introduced the idea of 'Street Advaita'. I found this post of mine that pretty much marked the beginning of the end ------------------------------------- ***I agree that there's something "much bigger and more interesting to do", and ironically it's not radically different from taking it to the streets, but at the moment you seem to have a very different view of what that entails. Tim mentioned that in recent days this list has 'come to life'. and I agree, though I recognize that most here are disgusted, including you. Perhaps it's not the sort of 'life' folks are looking for, but I suggest it's the life most are living. It looks a little like nonduality gone wild, a rumble between the nondual crips and bloods. This is nonduality, once removed from the sacred Satsang and thrown, wounded and screaming into the streets where we pretend that Advaita is actually lived. What is lived is the angst of artists who would use nonduality as a cross on which to hang for their passion. What is lived is the gun to the head in the back alley and the voice that says, 'Accept me you God darn Mother F-----!'. What is lived is the nondual ME screaming 'But I wrote a book!' 'But I've been to India!' 'But I AM enlightened....sorta...in my own way.' This is what it's like 'in the streets', and this is what is carefully swept under the carpet here or painted over with glitter because it doesn't look like nonduality. Yer darn right it doesn't, and that's the whole point. That's why folks can sit around reminiscing about the good ole days of these lists when we did exactly the same thing but in a less sophisticated, more fresh, innocent way. If I could give these forums a transfusion, I'd drain them of their passion for suffering, pretentiousness and timidity, and infuse them with a passion for Truth, humility and courage. Now we're talkin street Advaita.
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Post by nowhereman on Aug 31, 2013 22:40:28 GMT -5
First thanks for sharing that E. Secondly man you were really fired up then. Seems you cool down quite a bit my friend Btw I got the boot on the Non Duality Salon. Basicly it was Jerry's way or the Hwy Nowhereman
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Post by enigma on Sept 1, 2013 0:19:19 GMT -5
First thanks for sharing that E. Secondly man you were really fired up then. Seems you cool down quite a bit my friend Btw I got the boot on the Non Duality Salon. Basicly it was Jerry's way or the Hwy Nowhereman It's true, I've mellowed a bit with age. In the case of the Salon, I watched for a while as the senior members whined and postured and read from their their old dry scripts, and generally wondered how they could bring some new life to the forum while doing all they could to keep it in the same rut, so I took on the role of 'making it real' to shake things up a bit. Turned out they didn't want to change anything after all. Jerry is very comfy in his role as nondual expert editor and community leader, and as you suggest, he sets the tone there.
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Post by silence on Sept 1, 2013 11:03:10 GMT -5
What's a nonduality salon?
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