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Post by vacant on Jul 21, 2009 18:08:38 GMT -5
One's true Self is the easiest thing to see, plain obvious... well that's if I believe what I read from great luminaries (Nisargadatta, Huang Po, D. Harding etc). But for a lot of us who believe to be people —or forum bloggers with wacky names— finding Awareness of our true Nature seems a long slog of inner contortions, never ending processes of unpeeling layers or the proverbial needle in the hay stack supposed to magically trigger the Recognition.
The spiritual teacher, the Master or Guru, the guide, does he or she take me there or just point at the existence of a greater self, to open an appetite for it?
I do not have a teacher as such and do not know if it would be beneficial to have one or not. At any rate I wouldn't know where to turn, who to ask, and if I did I wouldn't know if I could trust them or their advice! My understanding of Nisargadatta's proposition is if you have a guide, trust him implicitly, he's doing the driving. If you don't have a guide, see him within you and the whole of your life, you are never without him, at one with the Self. I find that comforting, but from what I read on this board, I somewhat doubt Swami would condone such naivety!. I'm terribly awkward in addressing this guide within, but he/she sure has a way with sweet whisper.
Well, with you forum guys I might have fellow seekers. Who knows, maybe teachers even. Holy company? Ahhh! It's MySelf we're talking about for god's sake, so beyond all uncertainties I should know shouldn't I? I bet that's what the Higher Intuition is... Any views?
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 22, 2009 10:47:14 GMT -5
Hey vacant, The contortions are the process, and the fact that Self is the easiest thing to see is certainly true as well. What happens is that we have been resisting with all those old conceptions of self and conceptual assumptions about "how it is." Without those resistances, self is the most obvious thing in the world. It's TOO simple. So it's simply unwinding those resistances, which are a peeling a way, or unwinding, the way you would contortion a string to undo a knot. When enough resistance has been allowed to release, then the Self is right in front of you. It's the most obvious thing in the world. There seems to be a tendency where people start to feel it, but feel like it is something other than them. They feel unrelated to it, as they are still identifying as something small and individualized. At that point a relationship can begin to be developed with it, culminated in the realization that they ARE That. A spiritual teacher can have a couple functions: 1.) You can recognize your own Self in them and Their words since it tends to be more lively there. 2.) They can help point to what might be being resisted so it can be unwound and the self can be clearer. 3.) They can help you recognize the experience you are already having. 4.) They can validate experience so you can be supported in knowing which direction to go. The inner teacher is the most important one, and all words of an outer teacher MUST be confirmed by the inner teacher. If you simply don't know whether an outer teacher is correct, then simply test it out to see if it feels right and works...Anything a teachers says about what you should be doing must be confirmed to be useful in yourself. And that confirmation should be pretty clear as soon as whatever is said is openly tried and considered. There is no need for blind faith here. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be openness to whatever is said, but it means that it WILL be confirmed in your own experience if taken to the deepest level. If it is not, then it should be set aside, at least for the time being. Does that make sense? One's true Self is the easiest thing to see, plain obvious... well that's if I believe what I read from great luminaries (Nisargadatta, Huang Po, D. Harding etc). But for a lot of us who believe to be people —or forum bloggers with wacky names— finding Awareness of our true Nature seems a long slog of inner contortions, never ending processes of unpeeling layers or the proverbial needle in the hay stack supposed to magically trigger the Recognition. The spiritual teacher, the Master or Guru, the guide, does he or she take me there or just point at the existence of a greater self, to open an appetite for it? I do not have a teacher as such and do not know if it would be beneficial to have one or not. At any rate I wouldn't know where to turn, who to ask, and if I did I wouldn't know if I could trust them or their advice! My understanding of Nisargadatta's proposition is if you have a guide, trust him implicitly, he's doing the driving. If you don't have a guide, see him within you and the whole of your life, you are never without him, at one with the Self. I find that comforting, but from what I read on this board, I somewhat doubt Swami would condone such naivety!. I'm terribly awkward in addressing this guide within, but he/she sure has a way with sweet whisper. Well, with you forum guys I might have fellow seekers. Who knows, maybe teachers even. Holy company? Ahhh! It's MySelf we're talking about for god's sake, so beyond all uncertainties I should know shouldn't I? I bet that's what the Higher Intuition is... Any views? |
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Post by vacant on Jul 23, 2009 7:28:34 GMT -5
Yes, lightmystic, it makes a lot of sense, thank you. I recognize the point you describe: " where people start to feel it, but feel like it is something other than them. They feel unrelated to it, as they are still identifying as something small and individualized " Unfortunately I feel seperate.
Can you see the obvious One?
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 23, 2009 14:32:55 GMT -5
Glad to hear it!  I'm afraid that I'm not sure of what you're asking.... Can you rephrase it? Yes, lightmystic, it makes a lot of sense, thank you. I recognize the point you describe: " where people start to feel it, but feel like it is something other than them. They feel unrelated to it, as they are still identifying as something small and individualized " Unfortunately I feel seperate. Can you see the obvious One? |
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Post by giannis on Jul 23, 2009 19:55:58 GMT -5
I don't know anything really, so I should probably shut up, but whatever... who knows, maybe we can make it without an official teacher.
So, here is an opinion of a guy without an official teacher other than the internet:
-Do what you can with what you have.
-Be suspicious. The right teaching will probably be accepted in its own time. The wrong, no. You'll probably just find yourself immersed in some teaching.
-When you find yourself having "understood" your questions and you are complacent, be honest: have you understood everything? Are you totally satisfied? So, keep going, again.
-Don't be afraid to disrespect any teaching and adjust it to what you feel is stronger. Think.
-Keep in mind what you're looking for, maybe an answer will appear. Give coincidence a chance.
-Make fun of yourself, stop defending it ruthlessly.
-Sometimes, pushing yourself to the limits, involves resting or giving up periods.
-We're lucky to have internet nowadays. Use it. :-)
-This forum feels quite ... c-o-o-l! Why not use it?
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Post by Peter on Jul 24, 2009 2:52:29 GMT -5
Sounds like great advice to me.
I'd like to add:
-- be thankful, open and charitable.
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Post by vacant on Jul 25, 2009 5:04:48 GMT -5
Giannis & Peter, thanks for that. I just love the stuff in these pages! lightmystic, I'm afraid that I'm not sure of what you're asking.... Can you rephrase it?
[/color] I've read some of your previous posts which pretty much clarify my query. So never mind the question. I'm fortunate to be on this forum and grateful for your kind contributions. P.S. The thought came that I can't believe my luck, but I get the feeling that it's not about that... more like the process of truth searching itself. |
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 26, 2009 10:36:05 GMT -5
Hey Vacant, Glad your question is answered. Whatever we need next is what life provides. Although I tend to feel more the way you do - incredibly lucky to find the people that have guided me..... The process of truth searching for itself - BEAUTIFUL way to say it. So true! Let me know if you have any questions or if there is something you would like assistance in getting to the bottom of.... Giannis & Peter, thanks for that. I just love the stuff in these pages! lightmystic, I'm afraid that I'm not sure of what you're asking.... Can you rephrase it?
[/color] I've read some of your previous posts which pretty much clarify my query. So never mind the question. I'm fortunate to be on this forum and grateful for your kind contributions. P.S. The thought came that I can't believe my luck, but I get the feeling that it's not about that... more like the process of truth searching itself. [/quote] |
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Post by vacant on Jul 28, 2009 5:30:53 GMT -5
...Nice, I want to. But not much to ask at the moment.
I just feel imprisoned and really don't like it. But I know that "accept & surrender" is some sort of portal to freedom (I dont just think that, I know the feeling accepting and surrendering often brings) so when I can remember I do a bit of accepting and surrendering and then there's some seeing, of Vacant, and that the seeing comes from somewhere familiar like a very dear old friend. Then I don't notice the thought and it's an unconscious mess again. And I'm so helpless, until the dear old friend taps my shoulder again. Yes, it's more like that than any of my doing.
So like you prepare the table for the friends that come to dinner, I feel I have to make space inside for that friend to come, again and again, an invitation of sorts, make the environment more like what he likes (empty probably) so he could perhaps feel comfy there. Too much separation, I know, but I have to face things from where I'm at, right?
Well that's my way at the moment. Something's got to give. Maybe I live in a house of cards, somebody please huff, somebody please puff, and somebody please blow the wretched thing down!
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Post by astenny on Jul 28, 2009 8:40:36 GMT -5
...Nice, I want to. But not much to ask at the moment. I just feel imprisoned and really don't like it. But I know that "accept & surrender" is some sort of portal to freedom (I dont just think that, I know the feeling accepting and surrendering often brings) so when I can remember I do a bit of accepting and surrendering and then there's some seeing, of Vacant, and that the seeing comes from somewhere familiar like a very dear old friend. Then I don't notice the thought and it's an unconscious mess again. And I'm so helpless, until the dear old friend taps my shoulder again. Yes, it's more like that than any of my doing. So like you prepare the table for the friends that come to dinner, I feel I have to make space inside for that friend to come, again and again, an invitation of sorts, make the environment more like what he likes (empty probably) so he could perhaps feel comfy there. Too much separation, I know, but I have to face things from where I'm at, right? Well that's my way at the moment. Something's got to give. Maybe I live in a house of cards, somebody please huff, somebody please puff, and somebody please blow the wretched thing down! We need to create a place of peace and comfort within ourselves. Huff and puff, or superglue? Many people tend to blow the cards down, when all that is needed is for part to come down and then for it to be rebuilt. (I have that line from the old six million dollar man in my head now: Gentleman, we can rebuild him ... better than before..) |
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 28, 2009 10:22:30 GMT -5
I think you express it beautifully, so there is obviously a lot of understanding there on a deep level. I can appreciate from my own experience, however, that sometimes no amount of understanding can really make it better when the poop is hitting the fan. So you definitely have my compassion. That does change over time if it makes you feel better. Some things that might help though: Recognize what you're doing. That would be the biggest thing. You are going through the most difficult challenge anyone will ever have to go through and you are doing it QUICKLY! Yikes! And it pays off in spades. It's really this hard because what you're doing is really this big. It's easy to lose perspective of how big what you're doing is when in the middle of it. But it really is that big, grand, and important. Hehe, it's like the great adventurer goes to climb the HUGE mountain to fight the evil dragon so he can save the city, rescue and marry the princess whom he loves, get the evil dragon's gold, and get the magic sword that will let him return home to a life of peace and happiness as a hero. The journey is rough, but filled with meaning. Then it's like the hero get's amnesia in the middle of the dragon fight. "Ahh! What is this?! There's a huge monster trying to kill me! This is horrible! Why would I have wanted to do this?!" That's kind of like this process. You're fighting the dragon - which really IS a big deal, and it's incredibly important and meaningful and difficult. So let yourself have the space to go through this! Surrendering is great, in that it IS the process. And that surrendering is to what is, which includes the thoughts, feelings, and personality. So whatever you feel is okay, whatever the response is to what happens is also okay. It's even okay if you can't accept/surrender to something, just accept that you can't yet. That will help. Because letting go is not a giving up. It's the opposite of that. I know you basically know this, but these points can never be emphasized enough. The fact that you feel confined means you are not going to be satisfied until that confinement goes. Perfect conditions for growth, although perfectly uncomfortable too. Final note: Our dear friend! Is there a possibility that you could actively culture a relationship with our dear friend, instead of only being able to have him join briefly for minor reprieves. Can you say hello? Perhaps get a conversation going? You might be surprised to find that he has not come to dinner because, though you have set the table, you have forgotten to call him up and invite him!!!! Let me know how it goes. I would love to hear what happens next in the great adventure.... ...Nice, I want to. But not much to ask at the moment. I just feel imprisoned and really don't like it. But I know that "accept & surrender" is some sort of portal to freedom (I dont just think that, I know the feeling accepting and surrendering often brings) so when I can remember I do a bit of accepting and surrendering and then there's some seeing, of Vacant, and that the seeing comes from somewhere familiar like a very dear old friend. Then I don't notice the thought and it's an unconscious mess again. And I'm so helpless, until the dear old friend taps my shoulder again. Yes, it's more like that than any of my doing. So like you prepare the table for the friends that come to dinner, I feel I have to make space inside for that friend to come, again and again, an invitation of sorts, make the environment more like what he likes (empty probably) so he could perhaps feel comfy there. Too much separation, I know, but I have to face things from where I'm at, right? Well that's my way at the moment. Something's got to give. Maybe I live in a house of cards, somebody please huff, somebody please puff, and somebody please blow the wretched thing down! |
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Post by vacant on Jul 30, 2009 3:57:29 GMT -5
You remind me of that story of Anthony de Mello: a guy is praying to god for help and says: "please let me win the lottery". Time passes then he prays again: "No win yet, c'mon give me a break!" God replies: "No YOU give me a break. Maybe you could buy a ticket". |
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Post by lightmystic on Aug 7, 2009 11:10:40 GMT -5
Hehe. You remind me of that story of Anthony de Mello: a guy is praying to god for help and says: "please let me win the lottery". Time passes then he prays again: "No win yet, c'mon give me a break!" God replies: "No YOU give me a break. Maybe you could buy a ticket". |
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Post by divinity on Aug 18, 2009 10:27:09 GMT -5
The importance of a teacher is the student.
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