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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 7, 2013 8:35:50 GMT -5
Greetings.. What follows is a rambling description of my understanding of ‘Mind’, and I am giving fair warning that it is difficult to follow. My hope is that I might inspire exploration of the Mind through shared understandings. Somewhere in this mess of words I have tried to explain a process that has brilliantly revealed itself to ‘me’ in a way that removed all conflicts and all unresolved questions in my relationships with Life. If there is fault in the message, it is in my skill at presenting it, not in the process being presented. First, I understand that most of what I refer to as ‘what I know’, is what I ‘believe’, it’s what I hold as ‘true’ unless or until more conclusive information reveals those beliefs to be inaccurate or inadequate, this I refer to as ‘understanding’. I understand that this mind-body organism experiences information from sensory input, and I do not limit sensory input to the five physical senses, I hold insight, intuition, and energetic awareness as equal in the process of experiencing information, and by interactive communion, as ‘that’ which the information references. Among my conclusions, what stands out as undeniable, notwithstanding deep ideological inclinations to contradict it, is this: That Mind is the naturally existent and inherent medium upon and through which all of the experience of existence is made known.. further, that any form of communication requires the natural functions of Mind to complete the conveyance of words, ideas, concepts, and experiences from one being to another, or.. between multiple beings and the cooperative expansion of their collective Mind, even if the collective reference relates to even two or three beings cooperating in a way that achieves more than could be achieved individually. The word, ‘mind’, is sometimes demonized for its less desirable qualities, and praised for its more desirable qualities, and there is a tendency among ‘Spiritual’ groups to discount ‘Mind’s necessary role in the fundamental process of existing and ‘Being’. What I have come to believe (see previous paragraph), is that mind is similar to consciousness and awareness, in that it arises mutually and in proportion with the organization of biological energetic structures. Mind is more closely related to consciousness, in that consciousness is the fabric of mind’s existence, while awareness is the vehicle of mind’s information acquisition. I have investigated much of the formal reasonings about mind, and I have concluded, rightly or wrongly, that the contending and competing perspectives about mind are too convoluted and self-serving to be reconciled by my own mind, so.. I have studied mind from an observer’s perspective, listening to people’s use of the word and their understandings of Mind, and.. I also listen to my own mind’s understandings of its own processes. I also gave myself permission to fail, to make mistakes, to misunderstand, and to continue intending to understand. And, what has served my intentions well, is that I scrutinize my own beliefs and understandings, I sincerely try to find fault with the beliefs and understandings I accept as consistent with ‘what is so’.. so that what is left within my understandings has been scrutinized far more intensely than acceptable behavior allows me to scrutinize others.. I have am comfortable that my understanding of mind, what I believe about mind, is that mind is a medium common to all perception, awareness, experiences, imagination, reasoning, recollecting, and cognitive processes, and it is upon and through such medium that ‘that which is’ is made known in relation to itself (self-awareness). Mind is infinite and isolated at the same time, allowing for that which ‘is’ to utilize mind according to its intention, as an independently functioning ‘part’ of the infinite, and/or as ‘all’ of the eternal infinite, for exploring its own existence. Mind allows for isolated ‘parts’ of its wholeness to experience privacy as different ‘unique patterns’ of the same essence, like the unique snowflakes that are all the same essence of water. In this way, ‘that which is’ senses and perceives its existence in the same medium, mind, as the ‘isolated parts’ of itself experiences their freely interactive experiences with other ‘parts’, and with the part’s inherent awareness of itself as ‘that which is’, too.. a functional equality, as necessary to be true to your own experience of ‘You’.. What is brilliant about this relationship between the collective Whole (‘that which is’) and the unique individually functioning ‘parts’ of itself (which ‘is’, too), is the common medium of mind, where part and whole interact and ‘feel’ their inherent relationship through experiencing each other’s perceptions of existing. This ‘Mind’, as the medium within which all things are made known, is a curiously malleable and supple substance, taking the shape of its closest and most dominant influence, which is usually the intersection of perception and belief. Semi permanent shapes within the mind, usually the individualized ‘part’, are sometimes referred to and experienced as beliefs, rigid structures that are a bit like rocks in a stream, as they distort the flow of understanding into identifiable textures, ripples, and rapids. Equally acknowledged, are the beliefs that create harmony, like the beliefs that alert us to danger, or that remind us of necessary activities for our well-being, or that counsel us of our relationship with the continuum of Life. What is impressive, from my perspective, is the omnipresence of ‘mind’. Mind acts as the interface between all individualized aspects of Wholeness and between those individualized aspects and their collective Wholeness, regardless of whether the reference to ‘collective’ applies to the perspective of the Whole perceiving the many, or the many perceiving the Whole. The same function of mind figures out how to communicate between different languages of people’s understandings, as it figures out the language of emotion or the language of insight and intuition which are communications between “part and whole”, exploring their common evolution through the common medium of mind. Everything experienced and everything known, is made known through the mind’s capacity for organizing information, understanding consequences, and choosing from potential results. What is not often discussed are the mechanisms for acquiring information, and the functionality of the mechanisms. Mind, as the common medium of understanding, depends on information that it arranges as directed by the parameters established by ‘You’, either as the individuality, or as the collective (‘You’ are both, choosing your current perspective by where you apply your awareness). As the collective, your parameters are so broadly distributed as to include everything, and as the individuality your parameters vary widely depending on the individual’s understanding and awareness. In either case, the parameters are evident as ‘beliefs’, structures shaped by mind’s self-awareness and self-imagery, and arranged to affect how information is organized, how it is understood, and how potential results are chosen to perpetuate the belief structure. So, i have presented the mind.. as the interface through which all of Life and existence is made known to and between each of us individually, and.. as each of us, individually, experience Life from our individual perspectives, our individualized function of Mind translates our experiences into the energy of ‘feeling’, the common language of Life, individually or collectively, so that.. in the instant of ‘Now happening’, the collective Mind ‘feels’ every detail of Life in every perspective of the individual perceivers, as an Energetic Symphony of frequencies and vibrations.. and, at that same instant every individual has total access to and with the totality of the ‘Mind of the Cosmos’, the collective consciousness.. this access is dependent on the ability to ‘feel’ the stillness of the individual Mind, in which there is the clarity to experience ‘what is’.. the individual Mind’s active attention to its local environment is like the activity on the surface of the Cosmic pool of awareness, it distorts the perception of what is below the surface, it distorts the perspectives of the depths of understanding.. This Mind is like a movie screen where on one side the energy of physical existence is projected onto it, and.. on the other side, the energy of an intangible collective Cosmic Wholeness is projected onto it.. individually and collectively, we ‘know’ Life and existence through the shared medium of this common Mind.. we will focus on small sections of the ‘movie screen’ on the side of the screen we favor, and our beliefs will wrinkle and distort the screen’s smooth potential for clarity, or.. we will allow calm stillness to provide the smooth translucent Mind’s awareness to realize.. that the two sides of the Mind’s ‘movie screen’ integrate both sides into a seamless Whole, two sides of the same awareness.. And, we/us/Life are that Mind’s exploration of itself as it translates the unknown into the known .. I warned you, and.. if you read all of this with an open mind, you have my respect, even if you disagree.. Be well.. Hi Tzu - so very nice to "see" you again! I like this post very much, and have re-read it a couple of times now. It seems you are saying mind = consciousness, with perhaps a distinction that mind is the individual bubble of consciousness in an ocean of consciousness. Or that is how I am translating, since I first read this thread yesterday on the beach.
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Post by topology on Jul 7, 2013 8:51:56 GMT -5
Greetings.. I honest to God don't believe you. You're too intelligent to not get it. And, you think your beliefs about someone else is more valid than someone's word about their own self? you really don't understand human relationships, do you? it really is all about 'you', and what 'you' want.. Be well.. Um, Tzu, I'd like to point out that with Enigma especially, and with others, you run with your beliefs about them instead of allowing their self testimony to stand.... So the second and third sentences you wrote would apply to you as well if you are wanting to levy them equally or fairly.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 7, 2013 8:52:23 GMT -5
FWIW ATA is not a strategy for getting anything. It is simply the shifting of attention to what is already here and now. Most people would rather spend their time thinking, telling themselves stories, chasing figments of their imagination, and getting angry that reality does not conform to their ideas than looking at the world and interacting with it directly. But often (more often than not for some of us, ahem), thinking, telling stories, chasing figments of imagination and getting angry IS what is already here and now. The implication from your wording here is that is not okay, that's a problem, that is what one is doing wrong, if only that could be fixed, if only the mind could be stilled, something will finally be achieved, and that reality will be revealed. It may be more constructive instead to suggest that all of those activities are just fine, they are part of what is, they are part of reality in that here/now moment too. I just saw this forum has an "Add Attachment" button and that made me laugh so hard I lost my train of thought. If people are happy with their lives, they are unlikely to be seeking anything, much less the meaning of life or an understanding of reality that differs from what they've been conditioned to believe. For those people who set off on such a search (as a result of despair, curiosity, or a desire for greater happiness) ATA may help them see-through a lot of ideas that are keeping them in psychological bondage. If we see someone trying to unscrew a slotted screw with a phillips-head screwdriver, that is certainly an aspect of "what is," but wouldn't it make more sense to suggest the use of a bladed screwdriver for that task than to tell them that things are just fine?
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 7, 2013 9:07:42 GMT -5
But often (more often than not for some of us, ahem), thinking, telling stories, chasing figments of imagination and getting angry IS what is already here and now. The implication from your wording here is that is not okay, that's a problem, that is what one is doing wrong, if only that could be fixed, if only the mind could be stilled, something will finally be achieved, and that reality will be revealed. It may be more constructive instead to suggest that all of those activities are just fine, they are part of what is, they are part of reality in that here/now moment too. I just saw this forum has an "Add Attachment" button and that made me laugh so hard I lost my train of thought. If people are happy with their lives, they are unlikely to be seeking anything, much less the meaning of life or an understanding of reality that differs from what they've been conditioned to believe. For those people who set off on such a search (as a result of despair, curiosity, or a desire for greater happiness) ATA may help them see-through a lot of ideas that are keeping them in psychological bondage. If we see someone trying to unscrew a slotted screw with a phillips-head screwdriver, that is certainly an aspect of "what is," but wouldn't it make more sense to suggest the use of a bladed screwdriver for that task than to tell them that things are just fine? I suppose I should have prefaced this by saying I don't even know what the acronym ATA stands for. I made the assumption that it was a method by which to find enlightenment, or to see reality/glimpses of reality, since that is the post topic. Your post here seems to imply that it is a method to find psychological relief and comfort, peace and happiness. For those that are only seeking such relief, it is my observation they will simply adopt a bunch of newer, different conditioned beliefs. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. It is also what is, is it not? I would say reality is sometimes the screwdriver pressed to the head (reference to the movie Pi), and enlightenment is realizing that you are the screwdriver, you are that which holds it to its head, and also that which cannot be touched by the pain ... as you drill a hole in your head.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 7, 2013 9:18:34 GMT -5
If people are happy with their lives, they are unlikely to be seeking anything, much less the meaning of life or an understanding of reality that differs from what they've been conditioned to believe. For those people who set off on such a search (as a result of despair, curiosity, or a desire for greater happiness) ATA may help them see-through a lot of ideas that are keeping them in psychological bondage. If we see someone trying to unscrew a slotted screw with a phillips-head screwdriver, that is certainly an aspect of "what is," but wouldn't it make more sense to suggest the use of a bladed screwdriver for that task than to tell them that things are just fine? I suppose I should have prefaced this by saying I don't even know what the acronym ATA stands for. I made the assumption that it was a method by which to find enlightenment, or to see reality/glimpses of reality, since that is the post topic. Your post here seems to imply that it is a method to find psychological relief and comfort, peace and happiness. For those that are only seeking such relief, it is my observation they will simply adopt a bunch of newer, different conditioned beliefs. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. It is also what is, is it not? I would say reality is sometimes the screwdriver pressed to the head (reference to the movie Pi), and enlightenment is realizing that you are the screwdriver, you are that which holds it to its head, and also that which cannot be touched by the pain ... as you drill a hole in your head. Dear Serpentqueen, ATA has recently been discussed in this thread: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/2864/sidestepping-gapSince you are new here I think I should warn you about ZD. He is constantly pushing his ATA technique, but it has been pointed out by many here that his technique doesn't work, or, at the very least that any results associated with ATA are extremely inconsistent, so much so that they may easily be regarded as resulting from pure chance. To this ZD never gives a honest reply and instead accuses the students of not being successful because of character flaws or lazyness.
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Post by topology on Jul 7, 2013 9:47:57 GMT -5
I suppose I should have prefaced this by saying I don't even know what the acronym ATA stands for. I made the assumption that it was a method by which to find enlightenment, or to see reality/glimpses of reality, since that is the post topic. Your post here seems to imply that it is a method to find psychological relief and comfort, peace and happiness. For those that are only seeking such relief, it is my observation they will simply adopt a bunch of newer, different conditioned beliefs. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. It is also what is, is it not? I would say reality is sometimes the screwdriver pressed to the head (reference to the movie Pi), and enlightenment is realizing that you are the screwdriver, you are that which holds it to its head, and also that which cannot be touched by the pain ... as you drill a hole in your head. Dear Serpentqueen, ATA has recently been discussed in this thread: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/28E64/sidestepping-gapSince you are new here I think I should warn you about ZD. He is constantly pushing his ATA technique, but it has been pointed out by many here that his technique doesn't work, or, at the very least that any results associated with ATA are extremely inconsistent, so much so that they may easily be regarded as resulting from pure chance. To this ZD never gives a honest reply and instead accuses the students of not being successful because of character flaws or lazyness. Did you count yourself as being a student of ZD's? How are you basing your statistics on the success or failure of ATA versus the rate of success/failure of anything else?
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Post by silver on Jul 7, 2013 9:52:03 GMT -5
See, this is how and when you totally get away with insulting people - back-handed compliments. Calling people liars. I don't have an explanation because I really don't get what you are on about - well, you and co. Makes no sense to me. Will you still be writing posts that tell people to write in the unmoderated section? If I ever did post 'telling' people to write in the unmoderated section, it was in a context only fitting at that particular time in past history. Get that? It has nothing to do with here and now.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 7, 2013 10:17:56 GMT -5
Greetings.. Hi Tzu - so very nice to "see" you again! I like this post very much, and have re-read it a couple of times now. It seems you are saying mind = consciousness, with perhaps a distinction that mind is the individual bubble of consciousness in an ocean of consciousness. Or that is how I am translating, since I first read this thread yesterday on the beach. Hi SQ: I understand mind as the interface between Whole consciousness, and each individuated 'part' of consciousness, as such it acts like a window between the private individuated 'part' of consciousness with its private 'mindscape', that mindscape is like layers of veils, beliefs and knowings, that distort the view/perception through the 'window'.. your interpretation of 'bubble' has a good feel to it, but bubbles come and go with no traces left behind.. it is my understanding that the mindscapes are stored in consciousness as intact and precise energetic echoes of the original, a Cosmic Memory, accessible through when someone's mind is so still that the individuated 'interface'/barrier falls away and the individuated perspective establishes coherence with the Whole.. in this understanding, the energetic signature that is the individuated being resonates with other 'memories', people/places/events, having similar energetic signatures, allowing for clarity to reveal ever greater interactions with the Cosmic Whole, either through stored memories or as what is actually happening, now.. Anyway, thanks for reading.. i suspect there will be the disciples of Niz that analyze and spin this account of my understanding to create the favorite 'Tzu' illusion, we'll see.. Be well..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 10:23:36 GMT -5
Greetings.. Hi Tzu - so very nice to "see" you again! I like this post very much, and have re-read it a couple of times now. It seems you are saying mind = consciousness, with perhaps a distinction that mind is the individual bubble of consciousness in an ocean of consciousness. Or that is how I am translating, since I first read this thread yesterday on the beach. Hi SQ: I understand mind as the interface between Whole consciousness, and each individuated 'part' of consciousness, as such it acts like a window between the private individuated 'part' of consciousness with its private 'mindscape', that mindscape is like layers of veils, beliefs and knowings, that distort the view/perception through the 'window'.. your interpretation of 'bubble' has a good feel to it, but bubbles come and go with no traces left behind.. it is my understanding that the mindscapes are stored in consciousness as intact and precise energetic echoes of the original, a Cosmic Memory, accessible through when someone's mind is so still that the individuated 'interface'/barrier falls away and the individuated perspective establishes coherence with the Whole.. in this understanding, the energetic signature that is the individuated being resonates with other 'memories', people/places/events, having similar energetic signatures, allowing for clarity to reveal ever greater interactions with the Cosmic Whole, either through stored memories or as what is actually happening, now.. Anyway, thanks for reading.. i suspect there will be the disciples of Niz that analyze and spin this account of my understanding to create the favorite 'Tzu' illusion, we'll see.. Be well.. I'm still wondering why silence didn't understand- "would you buy energetic?" in my response to him about still mind. Maybe the above will help.
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Post by laughter on Jul 7, 2013 10:26:22 GMT -5
Greetings.. Hi Tzu - so very nice to "see" you again! I like this post very much, and have re-read it a couple of times now. It seems you are saying mind = consciousness, with perhaps a distinction that mind is the individual bubble of consciousness in an ocean of consciousness. Or that is how I am translating, since I first read this thread yesterday on the beach. Hi SQ: I understand mind as the interface between Whole consciousness, and each individuated 'part' of consciousness, as such it acts like a window between the private individuated 'part' of consciousness with its private 'mindscape', that mindscape is like layers of veils, beliefs and knowings, that distort the view/perception through the 'window'.. your interpretation of 'bubble' has a good feel to it, but bubbles come and go with no traces left behind.. it is my understanding that the mindscapes are stored in consciousness as intact and precise energetic echoes of the original, a Cosmic Memory, accessible through when someone's mind is so still that the individuated 'interface'/barrier falls away and the individuated perspective establishes coherence with the Whole.. in this understanding, the energetic signature that is the individuated being resonates with other 'memories', people/places/events, having similar energetic signatures, allowing for clarity to reveal ever greater interactions with the Cosmic Whole, either through stored memories or as what is actually happening, now.. Anyway, thanks for reading.. i suspect there will be the disciples of Niz that analyze and spin this account of my understanding to create the favorite 'Tzu' illusion, we'll see.. Be well.. looks like ya' can take the boy out of SF but ya' can't get the SF outta' the boy ... The word you were looking for was Tzllusion .... words on the page .... are words on the page ... and man oh man do these speak for themselves. "W"hole consciousness? "C"osmic "M"emmory? "C"osmic "W"hole? And you dog enigma about "Oneness" in a context that he never even used? You no longer have even the faintest claim of ownership on the word "belief" ... all one need do is point back here ...
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 7, 2013 10:45:15 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Hi SQ: I understand mind as the interface between Whole consciousness, and each individuated 'part' of consciousness, as such it acts like a window between the private individuated 'part' of consciousness with its private 'mindscape', that mindscape is like layers of veils, beliefs and knowings, that distort the view/perception through the 'window'.. your interpretation of 'bubble' has a good feel to it, but bubbles come and go with no traces left behind.. it is my understanding that the mindscapes are stored in consciousness as intact and precise energetic echoes of the original, a Cosmic Memory, accessible through when someone's mind is so still that the individuated 'interface'/barrier falls away and the individuated perspective establishes coherence with the Whole.. in this understanding, the energetic signature that is the individuated being resonates with other 'memories', people/places/events, having similar energetic signatures, allowing for clarity to reveal ever greater interactions with the Cosmic Whole, either through stored memories or as what is actually happening, now.. Anyway, thanks for reading.. i suspect there will be the disciples of Niz that analyze and spin this account of my understanding to create the favorite 'Tzu' illusion, we'll see.. Be well.. looks like ya' can take the boy out of SF but ya' can't get the SF outta' the boy ... The word you were looking for was Tzllusion .... words on the page .... are words on the page ... and man oh man do these speak for themselves. "W"hole consciousness? "C"osmic "M"emmory? "C"osmic "W"hole? And you dog enigma about "Oneness" in a context that he never even used? You no longer have even the faintest claim of ownership on the word "belief" ... all one need do is point back here ... LOL.. work it, baby!! looks you got that 'Tzu-Demon', now.. see, that's the thing.. i understand that this is a "BELIEF", i can't and don't say it is "TRUTH".. and when a more consistent and functional understanding is presented, i am willing to revise this belief.. i offered this with the awareness, that it would likely be you, on your quest, to mock and ridicule with the bludgeoning of your superior self-image.. let the beetings continue, LOL..... c'mon, laffy, you can do this deed.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 7, 2013 10:50:43 GMT -5
Greetings.. looks like ya' can take the boy out of SF but ya' can't get the SF outta' the boy ... The word you were looking for was Tzllusion .... words on the page .... are words on the page ... and man oh man do these speak for themselves. "W"hole consciousness? "C"osmic "M"emmory? "C"osmic "W"hole? And you dog enigma about "Oneness" in a context that he never even used? You no longer have even the faintest claim of ownership on the word "belief" ... all one need do is point back here ... LOL.. work it, baby!! looks you got that 'Tzu-Demon', now.. see, that's the thing.. i understand that this is a "BELIEF", i can't and don't say it is "TRUTH".. and when a more consistent and functional understanding is presented, i am willing to revise this belief.. i offered this with the awareness, that it would likely be you, on your quest, to mock and ridicule with the bludgeoning of your superior self-image.. let the beetings continue, LOL..... c'mon, laffy, you can do this deed.. Be well.. Yes Tzu', do stay on that hunt ... but try to find a shred of humility in which to clothe yourself in: if you are speaking from belief your lens is far too cloudy to discern when others aren't.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 7, 2013 10:53:39 GMT -5
Greetings.. looks like ya' can take the boy out of SF but ya' can't get the SF outta' the boy ... The word you were looking for was Tzllusion .... words on the page .... are words on the page ... and man oh man do these speak for themselves. "W"hole consciousness? "C"osmic "M"emmory? "C"osmic "W"hole? And you dog enigma about "Oneness" in a context that he never even used? You no longer have even the faintest claim of ownership on the word "belief" ... all one need do is point back here ... LOL.. work it, baby!! looks you got that 'Tzu-Demon', now.. see, that's the thing.. i understand that this is a "BELIEF", i can't and don't say it is "TRUTH".. and when a more consistent and functional understanding is presented, i am willing to revise this belief.. i offered this with the awareness, that it would likely be you, on your quest, to mock and ridicule with the bludgeoning of your superior self-image.. let the beetings continue, LOL..... c'mon, laffy, you can do this deed.. Be well..
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 7, 2013 11:12:43 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. LOL.. work it, baby!! looks you got that 'Tzu-Demon', now.. see, that's the thing.. i understand that this is a "BELIEF", i can't and don't say it is "TRUTH".. and when a more consistent and functional understanding is presented, i am willing to revise this belief.. i offered this with the awareness, that it would likely be you, on your quest, to mock and ridicule with the bludgeoning of your superior self-image.. let the beetings continue, LOL..... c'mon, laffy, you can do this deed.. Be well.. The Niz Clan gathers, praying for the blood of their victim... not this week, kids, i'm off to work in the Everglades where the internet is still a rumor.. so, you'll have a week to worship your 'selves' in peace.. but, thanks for the entertainment.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 7, 2013 11:22:14 GMT -5
Greetings.. The Niz Clan gathers, praying for the blood of their victim... not this week, kids, i'm off to work in the Everglades where the internet is still a rumor.. so, you'll have a week to worship your 'selves' in peace.. but, thanks for the entertainment.. Be well.. Have a good trip Bob ... wear the hat, I hear the sun down there ain't good for a paleface like you! (kemosabe)
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