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Post by silence on Jun 26, 2013 20:20:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. I doubt the moderation will be exactly the same. With the ability to say " Take it to the parkinglot, boys" and have that actually mean something and be enforceable without having to ban anyone from the forum, it might get exercised. In that case, why not create a 'pit' where the two people in disagreement fight it out, no holds barred, no interventions.. the peanut gallery can post their observation in another thread.. let's see the disagreements explored without distractions and interventions.. Be well.. You still can't see how you're constantly looking for a fight? I don't actually believe you're in that much denial.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:25:59 GMT -5
Look at this reply from Silver, Top. Did there anything change? Isn't that the same old mentality from a year ago? Look at the result of your efforts for effective communication and making everyone understand each other better. Your approach is not working. You are failing miserably. You mean your approach is not working. You've had more discussion interaction than I have had with Silver since talking her down in the BP thread. Most of my interaction with Silver since then has been explaining things she doesn't get. Here's a question for you Reefs, who have you helped become self aware and helped facilitate a realization through your mocking and caustic interaction? Names of forum members who you've "enlightened" for lack of a better word. You want to measure my d!ck, whip yours out and let's compare. But first we have to establish a criteria for progress, cause right now it looks like you are in the midst of your own melt down and are not mature enough to handle being around people who operate as feelers and so you would rather ban them or attack them until they run away. *contains misconceptions and false storylines and therefore lies*Here's that kneejerking again I was talking about before. What exactly is 'my approach'? I'm not in the helping people business or into creating world peace, but it looks very much that you are. Huh? I think you've kinda lost it by now. I don't care about peoples personal progress, I'm also not interested in their sob stories or success stories. I don't care about your personal plight. I'm here to talk about non-duality stuff which often has the side effect of helping folks out with their mental hick-ups and sometimes it looks like free online therapy, especially when I'm talking to you or Silver. But I'm not into the helping people business or into creating world peace. I don't have to see everyone getting along. OTOH, you are the one here who is talking about the importance of effective communication. And since about a year you are following me around telling me that I don't communicate effectively, you even assume I purposefully want to wind folks up for the sake of personal entertainment. You are doing that since a year and I've already told you that your agenda of painting me as the forum villain is a rather nasty endeavor and begins to border on malevolence given how long this is already going on. I think I could make a strong case that you are bullying me with your anti-bullying/mocking campaigns. So, no, I'm not in competition with anyone because my appearance here has no purpose or goal. So, tell me, do you see me as some kind of competitor here? You are talking about effective communication since about a year and are making great efforts. It's time for a status report, don't you think? Where did you improve communication and annihilate misunderstandings? Silver? M-G? Arisha? Tzu? Andrew? You spent months talking to these guys and nothing changed. You couldn't even effectively communicate with Amit. The only one who is still talking with Amit lately is Enigma, someone you would label as 'mocker' and bad guy. Time to look at the results, Top. You are failing miserably on all fronts. I don't attack people. That's one of your nasty storylines you keep telling everyone. My view on things is a little controversial and unconventional and that lets the more unconscious folks acting up more easily. And since I don't care about personal progress and personal background stories and keep pointing at the patterns at work, I don't get distracted with the emotional reactions and distractions that arise. I keep pointing at the patterns. A lot of folks see that as an assault or something because they can't look beyond the personal or can't put it on a more abstract level. And, most importantly, by not following the distractions they create to protect their illusions, they seem to think I'm attacking them because none of their unconscious defense mechanism works. And then there's also this other storyline of yours, painting me as someone having problems with feeling emotions just because I don't go with you into your emotional swamp. I'm very clear about this. It's not possible to understand everyone. And it's also not necessary. I've explained just recently why. And I've also explained before that folks like Silver should just leave because they are not a vibrational match to forum intentions. No need to convert anyone or brainwash anyone into a new communication standard. What you are trying to attempt is to remodel people according to your ideal. That's the most hideous thing one could ever attempt. Sure, you rationalize it how good it would be for the forum peace and such. But you are acting like a dictator. You want others behave according to your ideal. That's never going to happen. What is going to happen is that folks will keep coming and going according to their vibes they have going on. It's a natural process. Folks that are incompatible to each other just shouldn't talk too much with each other. So, given your increasing nastiness in your replies ("d!ck measuring", "attack") and your ongoing inability to actually read what I write in my posts, I really do think that you are having some kind of meltdown here. How much sleep do you get lately? Are you getting a little too much worked up about this? And stop dodging questions and creating distractions, please. I'll ask you again: How many folks have you helped to communicate more effectively with each other? Name names. So far I only see big failures.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:35:03 GMT -5
topo' I disclaim his mindless drivel comment but beyond that he makes a strong case ... seems to not matter at this point though. This reconciliation you're speaking of is impossible and any attempt at it futile. Giving the personal this protection robs it to some degree of the opportunity for finding the space in the only place it is to be had -- what is, in appearance to the personal, within itself. They won't see the lack of grounds for the complaints, which will continue, along with the drama, just in different forms and guises and along different story lines. Drama is a fact of the human condition. I agree, drama is the human condition, and yet Reefs wants to make me responsible for it. I know the reconciliation will never completely happen, the impersonal will always irritate the personal to some degree. Does that translate into saying the proposal for shifting the board structure is misguided or futile? Sounds to me like a prejudgment. What is wrong with shaking up the social dynamic? All I can see is a bunch of resistance to change. Which is also human nature. Why should anyone change and adopt your misconceived ideal? That's loco.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:36:52 GMT -5
You mean your approach is not working. You've had more discussion interaction than I have had with Silver since talking her down in the BP thread. Most of my interaction with Silver since then has been explaining things she doesn't get. Here's a question for you Reefs, who have you helped become self aware and helped facilitate a realization through your mocking and caustic interaction? Names of forum members who you've "enlightened" for lack of a better word. You want to measure my d!ck, whip yours out and let's compare. But first we have to establish a criteria for progress, cause right now it looks like you are in the midst of your own melt down and are not mature enough to handle being around people who operate as feelers and so you would rather ban them or attack them until they run away. shirley you're not waving the silver flag here as one of your 'success stories', if so I recommend you order one of these.... Yeah, one of Tops biggest remodeling failures. ![B-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/notamused.png)
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Post by silver on Jun 26, 2013 20:39:26 GMT -5
You mean your approach is not working. You've had more discussion interaction than I have had with Silver since talking her down in the BP thread. Most of my interaction with Silver since then has been explaining things she doesn't get. Here's a question for you Reefs, who have you helped become self aware and helped facilitate a realization through your mocking and caustic interaction? Names of forum members who you've "enlightened" for lack of a better word. You want to measure my d!ck, whip yours out and let's compare. But first we have to establish a criteria for progress, cause right now it looks like you are in the midst of your own melt down and are not mature enough to handle being around people who operate as feelers and so you would rather ban them or attack them until they run away. *contains misconceptions and false storylines and therefore lies* Yes - yours.Here's that kneejerking again I was talking about before. What exactly is 'my approach'? I'm not in the helping people business or into creating world peace, but it looks very much that you are. Huh? I think you've kinda lost it by now. I don't care about peoples personal progress, I'm also not interested in their sob stories or success stories. I don't care about your personal plight. I'm here to talk about non-duality stuff which often has the side effect of helping folks out with their mental hick-ups and sometimes it looks like free online therapy, especially when I'm talking to you or Silver. But I'm not into the helping people business or into creating world peace. I don't have to see everyone getting along. OTOH, you are the one here who is talking about the importance of effective communication. And since about a year you are following me around telling me that I don't communicate effectively, you even assume I purposefully want to wind folks up for the sake of personal entertainment. You are doing that since a year and I've already told you that your agenda of painting me as the forum villain is a rather nasty endeavor and begins to border on malevolence given how long this is already going on. I think I could make a strong case that you are bullying me with your anti-bullying/mocking campaigns. So, no, I'm not in competition with anyone because my appearance here has no purpose or goal. So, tell me, do you see me as some kind of competitor here? You are talking about effective communication since about a year and are making great efforts. It's time for a status report, don't you think? Where did you improve communication and annihilate misunderstandings? Silver? M-G? Arisha? Tzu? Andrew? You spent months talking to these guys and nothing changed. You couldn't even effectively communicate with Amit. The only one who is still talking with Amit lately is Enigma, someone you would label as 'mocker' and bad guy. Time to look at the results, Top. You are failing miserably on all fronts. I don't attack people. That's one of your nasty storylines you keep telling everyone. My view on things is a little controversial and unconventional and that lets the more unconscious folks acting up more easily. And since I don't care about personal progress and personal background stories and keep pointing at the patterns at work, I don't get distracted with the emotional reactions and distractions that arise. I keep pointing at the patterns. A lot of folks see that as an assault or something because they can't look beyond the personal or can't put it on a more abstract level. And, most importantly, by not following the distractions they create to protect their illusions, they seem to think I'm attacking them because none of their unconscious defense mechanism works. And then there's also this other storyline of yours, painting me as someone having problems with feeling emotions just because I don't go with you into your emotional swamp. I'm very clear about this. It's not possible to understand everyone. And it's also not necessary. I've explained just recently why. And I've also explained before that folks like Silver should just leave because they are not a vibrational match to forum intentions. No need to convert anyone or brainwash anyone into a new communication standard. What you are trying to attempt is to remodel people according to your ideal. That's the most hideous thing one could ever attempt. Sure, you rationalize it how good it would be for the forum peace and such. But you are acting like a dictator. You want others behave according to your ideal. That's never going to happen. What is going to happen is that folks will keep coming and going according to their vibes they have going on. It's a natural process. Folks that are incompatible to each other just shouldn't talk too much with each other. So, given your increasing nastiness in your replies ("d!ck measuring", "attack") and your ongoing inability to actually read what I write in my posts, I really do think that you are having some kind of meltdown here. How much sleep do you get lately? Are you getting a little too much worked up about this? And stop dodging questions and creating distractions, please. I'll ask you again: How many folks have you helped to communicate more effectively with each other? Name names. So far I only see big failures. Amit's a rational, level-headed person - not perfect, but he seems to be the type who gets along with everybody or avoids conflict and speaks plainly. Of course, anybody can talk to him. You never miss an opportunity to toot yours or Enigma's horn - nothing wrong in it per se, but you're using it to reinforce the issues you politicize here. I'm not going point by point - you use all this bluster and fluster to wear people down - discourage anybody to challenge your wild allegations.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:39:40 GMT -5
shirley you're not waving the silver flag here as one of your 'success stories', if so I recommend you order one of these.... No I'm not Farmer, but Reefs is framing her as one of my failings which is placing me in charge of her awakening and becoming self-aware. As if any one person can be responsible for what can only happen by the grace of god. Reefs wants to measure this way, not I. No. It's about effective communication, not about enlightening people. Your claim is that everyone can communicate effectively with everyone else. I say that's not possible.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:42:12 GMT -5
I see this as somewhat out of the norm for you. There is no aggression here right now, and that can be seen in my unwillingness to have put a vote against 'sick and evil people'. Its not like that. I think the forum is in a pretty poor situation right now and I think a change might help. If not, it can always revert back. I don't think I brought the issue of 'authenticity' into it initially, but my experience is that authenticity isn't necessarily a given, either with or without moderation, so I have no concern about authenticity. I offer you points of gentle and respectful disagreement on the highlighted. Sounds very contradictory paradoxical. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:44:15 GMT -5
The last polling threads where the vote mattered required senior members to sign their votes in order to count, rendering the anonymous polls uninformative. This is an idea that would likely meet a lot of resistance, so the first impulse on a poll would be no. It's something that would require discussion and sitting with before being able to give a considered vote. But perhaps I should have made it a poll so that Reefs need to mock me fixated on a pattern of creating polls and less on the proposal of making a change to the forum structure. Awwww, that evil Reefs really messed up your inner peace, didn't he? If we could just outsource him, then your world would be okay again? Does that justify turning the entire forum structure upside down?
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:48:02 GMT -5
Or perhaps, and I'm not trying to be offensive here, you're not being honest with yourself on all of your feelings in this matter. Could be, but I think I'm being straight. Maybe you see enacting change in a system that isn't being perceived to work well as requiring aggression. I would say that it requires a level of 'dynamism', but not necessarily 'aggression'. I am not feeling aggressive on this subject but I am prepared to state a case. I also think its possible that you are projecting aggression onto me right now i.e. could be your aggression. Why the need to delineate? Why the meed to divvy up forum experience or delineate between 'my aggression'/'your aggression'? Only when we no longer feel the need to delineate or divvy up experience we can be truly free floating in outrageous joyous peace.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:49:55 GMT -5
This begs some questions. It seems like folks who want a moderated area because they think R&E et al are superbaddies are really wanting tighter moderation on mocking. Otherwise what we're getting is just a new loosely moderated area where there is no-holds-barred (within Proboards guidelines). I can see this area becoming a place for folks to speak their mind, complete with epithets, about those they percieve as treating them unfairly elsewhere. More like a venting zone. It's possible the superbaddies will be the object of such venting to a great degree. Yes. It would make things worse.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:52:50 GMT -5
That is possible. FWIW, I bear no ill wind toward you, topo' or anyone else in favor of the split. To reiterate, the basis for my claim of aggression on your part is this , particularly your declaration of an "issue" with a "particular group of people". I do feel that the current rules have facilitated a particular issue which seems to me to be bugging the forum, but I am not experiencing any aggression towards the people involved though. At least I haven't today! Well, we all remember you 'idiot' and 'idiocy' comments lately. ![:-X](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/lipssealed.png)
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 20:58:55 GMT -5
So if you're trying to play Nice in the Nice area, but then your nondual Turettes Syndrome takes over and you cross the line, you'll get warned, then banned (temp or otherwise). This means that a violator of the Nice rules in the Nice area, who gets banned, loses all rights to post at ST, including NY, whereas this would not happen in the New York thread. Interesting. Folks who sense that their own behavior is perhaps consistently mispercieved as mocking may want to consider not posting in the Nice area, lest they get banned for good. What I don't perceive myself as is 'not nice'. Even when I'm approaching someone on a personal level, i don't see my self as being mean or belligerent in the approach. I do, however,often see the reactions as being that, and it seems natural to match that energy to some degree if there is to be a discussion at all. Hencely, I don't see the proposed division as between nice and not nice, but between personal and impersonal, which should effectively alter the perception of whether I am being nice or not. No one is talking about Silver's sniping or Tzu's, Bengst's, Laughter's mocking and Top's bullying. Hello!? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png)
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 21:05:46 GMT -5
I see the unmoderated section as potentially putting these issues to bed. People can get on with belligerence, condescension, mockery, you will be even be free to comment on people's mental health. Personally, I see name calling as a relatively small thing by and large. I think too much time is currently spent on talking about laws and bi-laws and theoretically there should be very little of that in the unmoderated section. And then the new moderated section is there for those that want to debate a subject without getting personal. Yeah, that sounds like the plan. Sounds like when the spiritual egos get angry they go into the adult area and when they feel hurt they go back into the kids area. That ensures maximum ego stability. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 21:14:30 GMT -5
This begs some questions. It seems like folks who want a moderated area because they think R&E et al are superbaddies are really wanting tighter moderation on mocking. Otherwise what we're getting is just a new loosely moderated area where there is no-holds-barred (within Proboards guidelines). I can see this area becoming a place for folks to speak their mind, complete with epithets, about those they percieve as treating them unfairly elsewhere. More like a venting zone. It's possible the superbaddies will be the object of such venting to a great degree. Yes. It would make things worse. What do you mean by worse? Worse because it will be uglier in the sense of more profanity? Would you rather just tighter moderation on what is perceived as mocking and just leave it at that, without an unmoderated venting zone? This whole thing is just another tempest in a teakettle. But maybe I'm being insensitive (again).
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2013 21:23:40 GMT -5
Yes. It would make things worse. What do you mean by worse? Worse because it will be uglier in the sense of more profanity? Would you rather just tighter moderation on what is perceived as mocking and just leave it at that, without an unmoderated venting zone? This whole thing is just another tempest in a teakettle. But maybe I'm being insensitive (again). More confusion about rules and what goes and what doesn't. Edit: I don't have a problem with mocking. Mocking is some kind of habit here. Almost everyone does it. It's just some kind of broken record here that only E & R are mocking. But if you look closely, almost everyone is doing it, even Peter. And I'd rather have no moderation at all. This attempt to split the forum looks more like an attempt to make sure that everyone can stay sound asleep and never grow up no matter what. Protection is not a sign of maturity. It's a sign of someone feeling threatened based on some funny illusions. Someone cherishing his illusions and not wanting to let go. "Grow up or leave" would be my motto.
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