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Post by enigma on Jun 13, 2013 20:09:17 GMT -5
Whats a joke is that you say its a joke, sounds like maniacal gloating. I'm probably inventing something that's not there, but it seems as though both your's and Peter's comments have an undertone of: "Gotcha!....your a fraud" You'll get no argument from me there! lol I make no claims to speeerachul advancement of any kind, or any claims to having anything useful or helpful to offer of any kind, nor any claims that I "see" things clearly or any other way lol I also don't claim that anyone here is either deluded or enlightened, right or wrong. Though I'd personally like to see more of the openness, clearness, and collegialness around these parts that Amit seems to bring to the table ;-) Seems like it would sure be a more pleasant place to hang out if that were the case. Reading Amit's posts are like looking at a sunrise, reading the bickering posts between the various clubhouses is like looking at some poo on the bottom of your shoe that you just stepped in lol And while I do see God in the poo as well as the sunrise, the sunrise seems more pleasant....sometimes... This amit thing is reminiscent of another love affair you had back in the day. His name also began with an 'A', I think, and you lavished praise on him and called him a Buddha, and seemed to embarrass and confuse him too. I remember sensing you were using him and I didn't like the feel of it. He ended up in a rather deep depression and left the forum for a time, though I can't say if it was related to your approach. It did seem like an odd thing for a Buddha to do. At the time, I thought maybe you were recruiting students, but I'm not really sure wht it's about.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 13, 2013 20:12:27 GMT -5
And while I do see God in the poo as well as the sunrise, the sunrise seems more pleasant....sometimes... Wait. God's in my poo? Well, I certainly hope he liked the chiles rellenos last night.
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Post by silence on Jun 13, 2013 20:25:43 GMT -5
And while I do see God in the poo as well as the sunrise, the sunrise seems more pleasant....sometimes... Wait. God's in my poo? Well, I certainly hope he liked the chiles rellenos last night. Come on Beingist, get with the program. We've already been over the fact that everything is comprised of jesus molecules.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 13, 2013 20:36:41 GMT -5
Wait. God's in my poo? Well, I certainly hope he liked the chiles rellenos last night. Come on Beingist, get with the program. We've already been over the fact that everything is comprised of jesus molecules. D'oh. Yeah, I keep fergettin'. (Taking a quick break to wipe all the Jesus molecules off his screen. I'm sure I'll be forgiven).
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Post by silence on Jun 13, 2013 20:42:28 GMT -5
Come on Beingist, get with the program. We've already been over the fact that everything is comprised of jesus molecules. D'oh. Yeah, I keep fergettin'. (Taking a quick break to wipe all the Jesus molecules off his screen. I'm sure I'll be forgiven). Nope, you're going straight to hell which coincidentally is also comprised of jesus molecules.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 21:57:56 GMT -5
And while I do see God in the poo as well as the sunrise, the sunrise seems more pleasant....sometimes... Wait. God's in my poo? Well, I certainly hope he liked the chiles rellenos last night. Huhuhuhuh
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Post by Peter on Jun 14, 2013 2:37:41 GMT -5
Well of course that's your choice and not having to deal with reported posts is certainly less time consuming. I just won't be accepting any criticism like "You didn't do X when Y happened" if no one has bothered to bring that upsetting/unacceptable/unjust event to my attention. I will likely bring any issues to your attention publicly, Peter, if that's okay. Absolutely - you know I like to work publically. But if it looks like I've missed it (ie two days later I haven't replied) then maybe a wee PM to bring it to my attention? I said I can't read every post. P
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Post by amit on Jun 14, 2013 5:55:05 GMT -5
Hi quinn, I remember a period when it was a search for truth. In that search I discovered the writings of Soren Kirkegaard among others which ended the search for truth. It was a liberating experience in the sense that I was no longer bound to consider what I had to believe was true. He told a story about a highwayman who held up a coach, "Your purse" he cried and the passenger handed it over. He rode off and discarded his wig, coat, and mask in a ditch and headed for the next town, as did the passenger. A beggar came along, put on the coat and wig and when arriving in the town was identified by the passenger as the robber, and put on trial where the passenger took an oath that this was indeed the robber. The highwayman was also in court and was granted permission to speak. He put on the coat and wig and said to the passenger "Your purse". The passenger cried out that this was the robber but of course he had already sworn that it was the beggar. So it is with all who believe they have discovered a truth. They venture life and limb, would hang themselves and others, all on account of the wig:) amit But you didn't end the search for truth. You're enthralled with trying to describe reality in the most accurate fashion that 'resonates' with you. You're also simultaneously trying to deceive yourself with clever wording to disguise this. Hi silence, I think our discussion on this topic should end there please. amit
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Post by topology on Jun 14, 2013 6:41:17 GMT -5
But you didn't end the search for truth. You're enthralled with trying to describe reality in the most accurate fashion that 'resonates' with you. You're also simultaneously trying to deceive yourself with clever wording to disguise this. Hi silence, I think our discussion on this topic should end there please. amit Amit, If I may ask, what's behind asking the discussions to end? You come across as very managed and refined, very gentle and very self-groomed. If the gentleness was absent, it would come across as pretentious and very inauthentic. This place can look like a zoo full of monkeys flinging feces at each other, but there is purpose and even method behind the madness. It is all designed to wear away at the outer facades we subconsciously erect to protect our sense of individuality and separateness. Your being poked and prodded in various ways is to see how you respond. One of the things that gets discussed here is non-duality, or said another way, non-separation. The non-separation is stemming from the realization that there is nothing (no person there) that is separate. The appearance of the person is an illusion of the mind that gets bought into and it takes on a life of it's own in needing to protect it's own existence, leading to the erection of walls and barriers. So I'm left a little confused. You resonate with the ideas of non-duality, but then you'll shut down an interaction with someone, which demonstrates a self-defense mechanism at play. You seem to be protecting your sense of individuality by asking people to stop their interaction with you. What I am saying is that it looks like you are protecting your sense of separateness, which would be antithetical to non-duality.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 14, 2013 7:18:57 GMT -5
I will likely bring any issues to your attention publicly, Peter, if that's okay. Absolutely - you know I like to work publically. But if it looks like I've missed it (ie two days later I haven't replied) then maybe a wee PM to bring it to my attention? I said I can't read every post. P Okey dokey.
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Post by amit on Jun 14, 2013 8:54:26 GMT -5
Hi laughter, Even when extreme views are being expressed, as in your example, asking why and what its like for a particular view to be held should facilitate dialogue and maybe even mutual understanding. However, in that process, projecting ones own ideas about that view in a judgmental, disrespectful way usually ends dialogue and people reach for the AK47 I notice. Its a pointless backward step if one is really interested in dialogue and not war. Using that approach one can always leave the channel open even if the war is raging. amit amit Yes, I see your point. There certainly is no reason to precipitate conflict for it's own sake, and the method and tone with which an alternative viewpoint is offered can become as much a part of the content as the ideas. Do you feel as though there has been some attempt to suppress your ideas in these discussions? The flip-side to your point is honesty. Diplomacy doesn't come without a sacrifice of a sort. If we concern ourselves overly much with the emotional impact of what we're saying we risk inauthenticity. What I've found very useful in the two forums that I've had these conversations on is to walk the walk: to be aware of the negative emotional reactions that I might have to what I'm reading. It's always an opportunity for self-reflection, and in all sincerity, sugar coating a message can deprive your listener of that. Tzu', for example, has countered this idea with the notion that it is simply an excuse to be sadistic, and that's a bit of a tautology, in that if such a sadistic urge is present then the opportunity presented is certainly different than if it isn't. Hi laughter, No suppression that Ive noticed. Sometimes it reaches a point where an objective exploration is replaced by the ventilation of strong feeling. When that point is felt to have been reached will vary as characters vary. Ive lived in several alternative communities and from my experience relating can go through stages maybe starting with objective exploration until someone feels their heartfelt beliefs are challenged by a particular point of view. It can then move to expressing strong feeling which can then lead to a complete split or just a period of withdrawal until objective exploration can commence again. The most effective communities were those that had discussed that sort of process and had a commitment to staying together which was strong enough to overcome hearing very strong things said about you which were not taken personally. Mostly the strength of feeling was owned by the character feeling it and could be a helpful stage. People who got upset in that way had the chance for some one to one sharing if they wanted it and often what they perceived as a threat was mitigated by that. It was an ongoing process and many who I initially couldn't get on with and they with me, became and still are close friends. amit
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Post by amit on Jun 14, 2013 9:04:09 GMT -5
Hi silence, I think our discussion on this topic should end there please. amit Amit, If I may ask, what's behind asking the discussions to end? You come across as very managed and refined, very gentle and very self-groomed. If the gentleness was absent, it would come across as pretentious and very inauthentic. This place can look like a zoo full of monkeys flinging feces at each other, but there is purpose and even method behind the madness. It is all designed to wear away at the outer facades we subconsciously erect to protect our sense of individuality and separateness. Your being poked and prodded in various ways is to see how you respond. One of the things that gets discussed here is non-duality, or said another way, non-separation. The non-separation is stemming from the realization that there is nothing (no person there) that is separate. The appearance of the person is an illusion of the mind that gets bought into and it takes on a life of it's own in needing to protect it's own existence, leading to the erection of walls and barriers. So I'm left a little confused. You resonate with the ideas of non-duality, but then you'll shut down an interaction with someone, which demonstrates a self-defense mechanism at play. You seem to be protecting your sense of individuality by asking people to stop their interaction with you. What I am saying is that it looks like you are protecting your sense of separateness, which would be antithetical to non-duality. Hi topology, The point at which it is felt that an exchange changes from being an exploratory discussion to disrespectful and/or judgmental will vary from character to character. When I feel that point has been reached for me I end my responses until hopefully it becomes exploratory again. Nothing is antithetical from a nondual perspective. There is no expression that is not Oneness. Everyone and everything said here is that. amit
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Post by topology on Jun 14, 2013 9:55:53 GMT -5
Amit, If I may ask, what's behind asking the discussions to end? You come across as very managed and refined, very gentle and very self-groomed. If the gentleness was absent, it would come across as pretentious and very inauthentic. This place can look like a zoo full of monkeys flinging feces at each other, but there is purpose and even method behind the madness. It is all designed to wear away at the outer facades we subconsciously erect to protect our sense of individuality and separateness. Your being poked and prodded in various ways is to see how you respond. One of the things that gets discussed here is non-duality, or said another way, non-separation. The non-separation is stemming from the realization that there is nothing (no person there) that is separate. The appearance of the person is an illusion of the mind that gets bought into and it takes on a life of it's own in needing to protect it's own existence, leading to the erection of walls and barriers. So I'm left a little confused. You resonate with the ideas of non-duality, but then you'll shut down an interaction with someone, which demonstrates a self-defense mechanism at play. You seem to be protecting your sense of individuality by asking people to stop their interaction with you. What I am saying is that it looks like you are protecting your sense of separateness, which would be antithetical to non-duality. Hi topology, The point at which it is felt that an exchange changes from being an exploratory discussion to disrespectful and/or judgmental will vary from character to character. When I feel that point has been reached for me I end my responses until hopefully it becomes exploratory again. Nothing is antithetical from a nondual perspective. There is no expression that is not Oneness. Everyone and everything said here is that. amit That sounds like a very roundabout way of saying you were personally feeling disrespected and judged. Were you feeling disrespected and judged?
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Post by amit on Jun 14, 2013 10:46:10 GMT -5
Hi topology, The point at which it is felt that an exchange changes from being an exploratory discussion to disrespectful and/or judgmental will vary from character to character. When I feel that point has been reached for me I end my responses until hopefully it becomes exploratory again. Nothing is antithetical from a nondual perspective. There is no expression that is not Oneness. Everyone and everything said here is that. amit That sounds like a very roundabout way of saying you were personally feeling disrespected and judged. Were you feeling disrespected and judged? Hi topology, It was close enough for me to feel that it had moved from objective exploration. There may be a lot of variation between characters about when that point has been reached. amit
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Post by amit on Jun 14, 2013 10:56:53 GMT -5
That sounds like a very roundabout way of saying you were personally feeling disrespected and judged. Were you feeling disrespected and judged? Hi topology, It was close enough for me to feel that it had moved from objective exploration. There may be a lot of variation between characters about when that point has been reached. amit PS. Some may even that it is useful to suspend what they regard as objective exploration. For me, in the context of this forum, that is not so. amit
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