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Post by enigma on Jun 14, 2013 14:08:38 GMT -5
But you didn't end the search for truth. You're enthralled with trying to describe reality in the most accurate fashion that 'resonates' with you. You're also simultaneously trying to deceive yourself with clever wording to disguise this. Hi silence, I think our discussion on this topic should end there please. amit Why is that? Silence won't get angry with you. He's safe to discuss with.
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Post by silver on Jun 14, 2013 14:15:46 GMT -5
Hi silence, I think our discussion on this topic should end there please. amit Why is that? Silence won't get angry with you. He's safe to discuss with. Yes, he's got quite a sense of humor (after long last displayed late yesterday - totally made me LoL) - just a touch of smarmalade!
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Post by enigma on Jun 14, 2013 14:18:26 GMT -5
Amit, If I may ask, what's behind asking the discussions to end? You come across as very managed and refined, very gentle and very self-groomed. If the gentleness was absent, it would come across as pretentious and very inauthentic. This place can look like a zoo full of monkeys flinging feces at each other, but there is purpose and even method behind the madness. It is all designed to wear away at the outer facades we subconsciously erect to protect our sense of individuality and separateness. Your being poked and prodded in various ways is to see how you respond. One of the things that gets discussed here is non-duality, or said another way, non-separation. The non-separation is stemming from the realization that there is nothing (no person there) that is separate. The appearance of the person is an illusion of the mind that gets bought into and it takes on a life of it's own in needing to protect it's own existence, leading to the erection of walls and barriers. So I'm left a little confused. You resonate with the ideas of non-duality, but then you'll shut down an interaction with someone, which demonstrates a self-defense mechanism at play. You seem to be protecting your sense of individuality by asking people to stop their interaction with you. What I am saying is that it looks like you are protecting your sense of separateness, which would be antithetical to non-duality. Hi topology, The point at which it is felt that an exchange changes from being an exploratory discussion to disrespectful and/or judgmental will vary from character to character. When I feel that point has been reached for me I end my responses until hopefully it becomes exploratory again. Nothing is antithetical from a nondual perspective. There is no expression that is not Oneness. Everyone and everything said here is that. amit For the average person (not necessarily you) the point at which significant beliefs are being threatened will be the same precise point where discussions will seem to go from exploratory to disrespectful and/or judgmental.
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Post by topology on Jun 14, 2013 14:24:43 GMT -5
Hi topology, It was close enough for me to feel that it had moved from objective exploration. There may be a lot of variation between characters about when that point has been reached. amit PS. Some may even that it is useful to suspend what they regard as objective exploration. For me, in the context of this forum, that is not so. amit In what contexts do you release your hold/adherence to objective discussion/exploration? Why is this forum not one of those places? Since everything is subjective anyway, is the focus/maintenance of objectivity an endeavor to keep things from getting personal?
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Post by enigma on Jun 14, 2013 14:28:16 GMT -5
Hi topology, It was close enough for me to feel that it had moved from objective exploration. There may be a lot of variation between characters about when that point has been reached. amit PS. Some may even that it is useful to suspend what they regard as objective exploration. For me, in the context of this forum, that is not so. amit So the idea is to feel safe?
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Post by laughter on Jun 14, 2013 16:16:42 GMT -5
Yes, I see your point. There certainly is no reason to precipitate conflict for it's own sake, and the method and tone with which an alternative viewpoint is offered can become as much a part of the content as the ideas. Do you feel as though there has been some attempt to suppress your ideas in these discussions? The flip-side to your point is honesty. Diplomacy doesn't come without a sacrifice of a sort. If we concern ourselves overly much with the emotional impact of what we're saying we risk inauthenticity. What I've found very useful in the two forums that I've had these conversations on is to walk the walk: to be aware of the negative emotional reactions that I might have to what I'm reading. It's always an opportunity for self-reflection, and in all sincerity, sugar coating a message can deprive your listener of that. Tzu', for example, has countered this idea with the notion that it is simply an excuse to be sadistic, and that's a bit of a tautology, in that if such a sadistic urge is present then the opportunity presented is certainly different than if it isn't. Hi laughter, No suppression that Ive noticed. Sometimes it reaches a point where an objective exploration is replaced by the ventilation of strong feeling. When that point is felt to have been reached will vary as characters vary. Ive lived in several alternative communities and from my experience relating can go through stages maybe starting with objective exploration until someone feels their heartfelt beliefs are challenged by a particular point of view. It can then move to expressing strong feeling which can then lead to a complete split or just a period of withdrawal until objective exploration can commence again. The most effective communities were those that had discussed that sort of process and had a commitment to staying together which was strong enough to overcome hearing very strong things said about you which were not taken personally. Mostly the strength of feeling was owned by the character feeling it and could be a helpful stage. People who got upset in that way had the chance for some one to one sharing if they wanted it and often what they perceived as a threat was mitigated by that. It was an ongoing process and many who I initially couldn't get on with and they with me, became and still are close friends. amit It's a beautiful irony, perhaps expressed as a turn of the wheel: in subjectivity one finds detachment, when all is personal, every discussion is impersonal. No, not a paradox.
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Post by laughter on Jun 14, 2013 16:20:51 GMT -5
Hi topology, It was close enough for me to feel that it had moved from objective exploration. There may be a lot of variation between characters about when that point has been reached. amit PS. Some may even that it is useful to suspend what they regard as objective exploration. For me, in the context of this forum, that is not so. amit Glad to hear that. I enjoy our correspondence. It is the only way available to us to explore the boundary between what enigma has identified and referred to as your disclaimer what you see as your relationship to it. The only way to truly honor the idea to the letter is with silence.
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Post by silence on Jun 14, 2013 21:00:43 GMT -5
But you didn't end the search for truth. You're enthralled with trying to describe reality in the most accurate fashion that 'resonates' with you. You're also simultaneously trying to deceive yourself with clever wording to disguise this. Hi silence, I think our discussion on this topic should end there please. amit Alrighty then.
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Post by enigma on Jun 14, 2013 23:12:15 GMT -5
Hi silence, I think our discussion on this topic should end there please. amit Alrighty then. Shields down. Cancel red alert.
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Post by amit on Jun 15, 2013 4:45:20 GMT -5
Hi silence, I think our discussion on this topic should end there please. amit Why is that? Silence won't get angry with you. He's safe to discuss with. Hi enigma, Please see recent posts on this topic to topology for a response to that. amit
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Post by amit on Jun 15, 2013 4:52:08 GMT -5
Hi topology, The point at which it is felt that an exchange changes from being an exploratory discussion to disrespectful and/or judgmental will vary from character to character. When I feel that point has been reached for me I end my responses until hopefully it becomes exploratory again. Nothing is antithetical from a nondual perspective. There is no expression that is not Oneness. Everyone and everything said here is that. amit For the average person (not necessarily you) the point at which significant beliefs are being threatened will be the same precise point where discussions will seem to go from exploratory to disrespectful and/or judgmental. Hi enigma, Please see recent posts on this topic to topology. amit
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Post by amit on Jun 15, 2013 4:56:13 GMT -5
PS. Some may even that it is useful to suspend what they regard as objective exploration. For me, in the context of this forum, that is not so. amit In what contexts do you release your hold/adherence to objective discussion/exploration? Why is this forum not one of those places? Since everything is subjective anyway, is the focus/maintenance of objectivity an endeavor to keep things from getting personal? Hi topology, Please see again my recent post to you about alternative communities for a response to that. This forum is not one of those those situations. amit
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Post by amit on Jun 15, 2013 6:09:22 GMT -5
PS. Some may even that it is useful to suspend what they regard as objective exploration. For me, in the context of this forum, that is not so. amit Glad to hear that. I enjoy our correspondence. It is the only way available to us to explore the boundary between what enigma has identified and referred to as your disclaimer what you see as your relationship to it. The only way to truly honor the idea to the letter is with silence. Hi laughter, If you describe what you call the disclaimer and what is believed to be my relationship with it, we can indeed undertake that exploration. amit
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Post by topology on Jun 15, 2013 7:23:21 GMT -5
In what contexts do you release your hold/adherence to objective discussion/exploration? Why is this forum not one of those places? Since everything is subjective anyway, is the focus/maintenance of objectivity an endeavor to keep things from getting personal? Hi topology, Please see again my recent post to you about alternative communities for a response to that. This forum is not one of those those situations. amit What about this forum prevents it from being one of those communities for you?
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Post by enigma on Jun 15, 2013 9:21:50 GMT -5
For the average person (not necessarily you) the point at which significant beliefs are being threatened will be the same precise point where discussions will seem to go from exploratory to disrespectful and/or judgmental. Hi enigma, Please see recent posts on this topic to topology. amit Alrighty then.
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