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Post by topology on Apr 3, 2013 20:06:34 GMT -5
It sounds like it's just a mismatch in terms. You are saying that you ate compelled to sit with the sense of "I Am". If 'ate' is just a typo for 'are', then, yes (though, again, 'impelled' might work better). No. In my case, it seems to have happened a bit differently, but otherwise, I can relate, yes. I was writing from my phone. (fat fingers) it was "are".
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Post by silence on Apr 3, 2013 20:08:01 GMT -5
Mind you, I'm not at all interested in a discussion based in semantics but are you saying it seems like you used to have a choice and now you don't? Well... yeah, I think that the initial act of turning one's attention inward involves a conscious choice (whether or not there be a 'chooser'), and I must have made that choice, at some point (culminating in a major life-altering event on April 24, 1994). Only thing is, that it became a habit, at some point, which turned into an impulsion, and I really don't think I could stop the internal inquiry, even if I tried. Okay. What I'm getting at is whether the discovery of what's true seems like something that's unfolding and becoming true now or are you discovering that what's true has always been true. In other words, it's very different to say "I was once the chooser and now I lost it" vs. "I discovered there never really was a chooser but choosing happens anyway".
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Post by silence on Apr 3, 2013 20:08:31 GMT -5
I see. In your own version of self inquiry, where do you see mind playing a role if at all? I think I answer this in the post above. The one I quoted?
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Post by topology on Apr 3, 2013 20:11:55 GMT -5
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Post by Beingist on Apr 3, 2013 20:24:36 GMT -5
Well... yeah, I think that the initial act of turning one's attention inward involves a conscious choice (whether or not there be a 'chooser'), and I must have made that choice, at some point (culminating in a major life-altering event on April 24, 1994). Only thing is, that it became a habit, at some point, which turned into an impulsion, and I really don't think I could stop the internal inquiry, even if I tried. Okay. What I'm getting at is whether the discovery of what's true seems like something that's unfolding and becoming true now or are you discovering that what's true has always been true. In other words, it's very different to say "I was once the chooser and now I lost it" vs. "I discovered there never really was a chooser but choosing happens anyway". Okay, well, your use of the phrase 'what's true' throws me off a little, here, as 'what's true' is synonymous with 'what is', though 'what is' is neither true nor false (if that makes any sense). 'What is' is ... well, all there is. That said, I can perhaps answer the rest of your question by saying that 'what is' has always been, and shall ever be 'what is'. Such is rarely realized, and the practice of self-inquiry (whether a chosen act, or not) has certainly helped me to realize it. What's really 'unfolding' is the release of the attachment to the self that thinks it's discovered or discovering anything. And, indeed, your comparison is clear, though I cannot rez with either sentiment, myself. I am more like, "I thought there was a chooser, and so I chose, but through that very choice, realized that there never was a chooser" (if that makes any sense).
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Post by Beingist on Apr 3, 2013 20:25:36 GMT -5
I think I answer this in the post above. The one I quoted? Yes.
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Post by laughter on Apr 3, 2013 21:06:54 GMT -5
Actually, 'openness' comes pretty close to describing it. It's rather like perpetually asking the God part within, "what would you have me do now?" Though, I'm sure someone here will pick that apart, too. B' FWIW I got where you were coming from with the original comment and did not hear it as describing some constant state of prayer or some constant mind-splinter asking "who am I? what am I?..." over and over again. What I took you to mean is what I meant to convey when I say that every instant is an oppportunity.
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Post by laughter on Apr 3, 2013 21:08:44 GMT -5
The spontaneous realization in Joe Blow is going to release the tension in his mind, bring him existential peace, but not necessarily change his personality, external behavior or bodily manifestation in the world. People might notice that he's "calmed down" or become more content, easier to be around, but that's about it. He may never talk about his insight or share it with anyone. He has no need to. Yes, your personality is always going to be unique and that's the way it's supposed to be. Which is why all the emulation of saints and teachers is completely missing the point. The only thing that's pretty much guaranteed is that the absence of an imaginary moderator filtering and distorting your personality will likely make you much more direct. ha! an expectation about the point past expectations! Not every resort to the subtle is moderated and not all bluntness is unmoderated.
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Post by laughter on Apr 3, 2013 21:11:12 GMT -5
I've only ever seen those guys work from afar and from what I can tell they pretty much delegate everything to the drug companies. By and large I'd agree with you. There are actually branches of psychiatry that fully embrace much of what's discussed here. I recall talking to my neighbor once who said that one of the very first things his psychiatrist told him was that the "me" I think I am is nothing more than a narrative that doesn't exist at all in the way I think it does. literally bringing sanity to the business of sanity ... imagine that!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 21:16:44 GMT -5
hehe...yeah, probably. .....those who thrive on teaching will oft do almost anything to 'find' a student...even create one, if necessary. looks like a familiar fork in the road.. If I may be so bold, if you don't want to get teached, be challenged, or have your worldview savaged by some non dual tiger, then perhaps take this as an opportunity to leave this thread. I have no problem whatsoever with being challenged, nor do I have a problem with participating in a thread where others voice their opinion and observations....How 'bout you?
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Post by laughter on Apr 3, 2013 21:23:21 GMT -5
I'm saying that you obviously have the capacity for self inquiry since you do it "perpetually". Yet when a question is posed to you to inquire about, the shields go up and a conclusion is made that there's no chooser. I'm saying that such a statement is irrelevant and nothing more than a distraction technique of mind. Additionally, anyone who is constantly inquiring within is not A-okay as figgy suggests. I don't mean to say you're mentally ill or anything. Only to say that such behavior is the result of a mind that is looking for something. +1 I've been rezzing with everything you've said for a while now. Inquiry is mental activity attempting to resolve a tension. It is not the mind at rest. Applying the verb "rest" to the mind can mean two different things that are pretty much opposites of each other. On one hand, it can be used to describe a state that is comfortable and stable based on belief ... on the other hand, it can be used to describe, as I infer you meant there, a mind that is quiet. For example, in this book, the primary prescription of the author is "arouse the mind without resting it on anything". My experience is that inquiry done in the context of the first meaning is not really inquiry and inquiry done in which the mind is not in a state as described by the second meaning will not result in "progress" as it will "be unfruitful", for want of a better way to express this atm.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 21:25:49 GMT -5
Actually, 'openness' comes pretty close to describing it. It's rather like perpetually asking the God part within, "what would you have me do now?" Though, I'm sure someone here will pick that apart, too. B' FWIW I got where you were coming from with the original comment and did not hear it as describing some constant state of prayer or some constant mind-splinter asking "who am I? what am I?..." over and over again. What I took you to mean is what I meant to convey when I say that every instant is an oppportunity. Looooove That one Laughter. ...Hey, You a poet or somethin'?
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Post by Beingist on Apr 3, 2013 21:30:12 GMT -5
Actually, 'openness' comes pretty close to describing it. It's rather like perpetually asking the God part within, "what would you have me do now?" Though, I'm sure someone here will pick that apart, too. B' FWIW I got where you were coming from with the original comment and did not hear it as describing some constant state of prayer or some constant mind-splinter asking "who am I? what am I?..." over and over again. What I took you to mean is what I meant to convey when I say that every instant is an oppportunity. Yeah, more like a constant hum than a chant. More like contemplation than prayer. And all with a ... an inquiring tone to it. Impossible to describe with words, otherwise. And yeah, I started to read that post of yours, earlier, but it seemed rather like your own chant, with which it is impossible for me to refute or argue with, so I made no comment on it. It's all cool. Diff'rnt strokes fer diff'rnt folks, and all.
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Post by laughter on Apr 3, 2013 21:40:49 GMT -5
Well exactly ... meditating for a purpose is self-defeating from the get go ... but you mentioned a certain mind-state, so I mentioned a different mind state. What questions have you used in the past? What “happened”? ~ earnest yeah I told the story of a memory from a few years back, the story of today would be a different one yer jest mad 'cause ur guys couldn't win even though they sent thugs out on the court to break an opponents leg! hey I was wit' ya' me JB and the boys don't wanna have to see the louies in another final! Go Witchy State!
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Post by laughter on Apr 3, 2013 21:41:48 GMT -5
B' FWIW I got where you were coming from with the original comment and did not hear it as describing some constant state of prayer or some constant mind-splinter asking "who am I? what am I?..." over and over again. What I took you to mean is what I meant to convey when I say that every instant is an oppportunity. Looooove That one Laughter. ...Hey, You a poet or somethin'? ty figster but it's more like being a UHF antenna with fingers ... (... bill can't take no credit! ...)
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