I can rez. Friends of mine have accused me of 'being in tune with the mechanized hum of the other world" (this is in part due to the fact that my ears constantly ring).
my sympathies, fwtw on the tinnitus ... I'm reminded of Maries post over on RH ... with me the chronic is lower back pain ... that moment when you say ... "oh well, always gonna be this way ...", yeah that's memorable.
all this time I've been imagining you doing magnificent aerial ski jumps. No wonder you have back pain!
my sympathies, fwtw on the tinnitus ... I'm reminded of Maries post over on RH ... with me the chronic is lower back pain ... that moment when you say ... "oh well, always gonna be this way ...", yeah that's memorable.
No sympathies necessary. My ears have rung ever since I could remember, so I don't even notice it, 99% of the time. It's not really much of a problem.
Didn't we establish earlier that tinnitis was the mark of Realization?
yer jest mad 'cause ur guys couldn't win even though they sent thugs out on the court to break an opponents leg!
hey I was wit' ya' me JB and the boys don't wanna have to see the louies in another final!
Go Witchy State!
hehe, yeah the Devils got smoked in the second half, and I haven't seen that gnarly a leg breaking since Lawrence Taylor sent Joe Theismann to the TV booth. The Shockers huh?, good luck wit dat
Actually, 'openness' comes pretty close to describing it.
It's rather like perpetually asking the God part within, "what would you have me do now?"
Though, I'm sure someone here will pick that apart, too.
Not picking apart anything, just musing...I heard the word 'available' used this morning in a similar context (or so I imagine). 'Listening from the heart' was used in the same talk. It was a podcast from Jon Bernie.
Actually, 'openness' comes pretty close to describing it.
It's rather like perpetually asking the God part within, "what would you have me do now?"
Though, I'm sure someone here will pick that apart, too.
Not picking apart anything, just musing...I heard the word 'available' used this morning in a similar context (or so I imagine). 'Listening from the heart' was used in the same talk. It was a podcast from Jon Bernie.
"Listening from the heart'.... yeah, I can rez widdat.
'Three things are absolutely necessary for human life: food, oxygen and sex.' -- Niz
I have no problem whatsoever with being challenged, nor do I have a problem with participating in a thread where others voice their opinion and observations....How 'bout you?
I may have completely misread the situation. It looked like things were heading into a story of "why are people picking on me" and snippy comments about how desperate some teachers are to get their hands on a student (my words)
My point I guess was that yes of course you're free to voice your opinions and observations. My request was that if you, or anyone, is going to cry foul in this particular thread that they move along to another thread. And of course you can completely ignore me if you like
Sorry Earnest, I was guilty of jumping into the thread without reading the 'rules' you'd suggested...(hehe....not that that would have necessarily changed anything ). Fact is though, I was just spontaneously offering observation, not wanting to starts any 'wars' here myself.
When I first began with self inquiry, I found that minor things that irritated me and created an urge of needing to control outcome was a really great starting point. To look into the 'why's' behind my sense of wanting/needing things to be a certain way, I came to see that often, there was a whole mountain of layered beliefs behind that. The main belief being that circumstances MUST align with all of my preferences or peace cannot be.
So.....(and I hope I'm not breaking one of your rules here... You could start by asking yourself 'why' do you want this thread to adhere to the rules you've laid out (if you really are not anti drift or pro drift as you say?)
In my opinion a teacher knows that TRUTH is not sought-able.
His only job is convince the student that there is another view of Reality, separate from the one that is normally conceived.
And that it is just as pragmatic as the one that the student has a death grip on.
It is not so much a gaining of something, but rather a pitting of one view of Reality against another.
A teacher is not trying to encourage or convince a student to exchange one view of Reality with another. A teacher is encouraging a student to leave all views of Reality behind and realize that s/he IS Reality. A teacher points only to Presence.
From what I've learned so far, that -- presence -- is the take-away. And the lingering questions stretch out and saunter around. ZD you've mentioned 'existential questions' in the past. It's funny because the main pointer -- to presence -- is what I consider as straight-up existentialism. "What's happening?" <-- that's what I consider an existential question. It demands presence.
I hear you and others talking about Oneness and how Consciousness creates everything, Unlimited Potential or Intelligence, and things like that, and I wonder how important those understandings are to straight up presence. When I'm honed in on Presence, all thoughts are seen for what they are -- just passing appearances, like everything else. So these profound attempts to articulate realizations, just come and go away. What's more, I figure it doesn't matter -- those things are realized or they aren't. 'I'll see it when I see it' (and this may be never).
A teacher is not trying to encourage or convince a student to exchange one view of Reality with another. A teacher is encouraging a student to leave all views of Reality behind and realize that s/he IS Reality. A teacher points only to Presence.
From what I've learned so far, that -- presence -- is the take-away. And the lingering questions stretch out and saunter around. ZD you've mentioned 'existential questions' in the past. It's funny because the main pointer -- to presence -- is what I consider as straight-up existentialism. "What's happening?" <-- that's what I consider an existential question. It demands presence.
I hear you and others talking about Oneness and how Consciousness creates everything, Unlimited Potential or Intelligence, and things like that, and I wonder how important those understandings are to straight up presence. When I'm honed in on Presence, all thoughts are seen for what they are -- just passing appearances, like everything else. So these profound attempts to articulate realizations, just come and go away. What's more, I figure it doesn't matter -- those things are realized or they aren't. 'I'll see it when I see it' (and this may be never).
Yes.
FWIW, ATA = 'Being Present'.
'Three things are absolutely necessary for human life: food, oxygen and sex.' -- Niz
A teacher is not trying to encourage or convince a student to exchange one view of Reality with another. A teacher is encouraging a student to leave all views of Reality behind and realize that s/he IS Reality. A teacher points only to Presence.
From what I've learned so far, that -- presence -- is the take-away. And the lingering questions stretch out and saunter around. ZD you've mentioned 'existential questions' in the past. It's funny because the main pointer -- to presence -- is what I consider as straight-up existentialism. "What's happening?" <-- that's what I consider an existential question. It demands presence.
I hear you and others talking about Oneness and how Consciousness creates everything, Unlimited Potential or Intelligence, and things like that, and I wonder how important those understandings are to straight up presence. When I'm honed in on Presence, all thoughts are seen for what they are -- just passing appearances, like everything else. So these profound attempts to articulate realizations, just come and go away. What's more, I figure it doesn't matter -- those things are realized or they aren't. 'I'll see it when I see it' (and this may be never).
Dear Dude/Dudette,
Remember that Adya quote on RH? 'Dangerous questions' and such?
"NOW what?" is a really profound and existentially dangerous question. It has the potential to instantaneously cut thru mind bugs like the "Andrey/Reaper Dilemma" or the "Wet Towel God Koan" and all kinds of other ESBS (extreme spiritual BS).
A teacher is not trying to encourage or convince a student to exchange one view of Reality with another. A teacher is encouraging a student to leave all views of Reality behind and realize that s/he IS Reality. A teacher points only to Presence.
From what I've learned so far, that -- presence -- is the take-away. And the lingering questions stretch out and saunter around. ZD you've mentioned 'existential questions' in the past. It's funny because the main pointer -- to presence -- is what I consider as straight-up existentialism. "What's happening?" <-- that's what I consider an existential question. It demands presence.
I hear you and others talking about Oneness and how Consciousness creates everything, Unlimited Potential or Intelligence, and things like that, and I wonder how important those understandings are to straight up presence. When I'm honed in on Presence, all thoughts are seen for what they are -- just passing appearances, like everything else. So these profound attempts to articulate realizations, just come and go away. What's more, I figure it doesn't matter -- those things are realized or they aren't. 'I'll see it when I see it' (and this may be never).
The realizations are not articulated so that answers can be found but so that questions can be dissolved in the seeing of that which is pointed to by the articulation. If your attempt to simply be present were perpetually successful, the articulation of the realizations would not be necessary, but the questions remain, and these questions entangle mind without asking permission.
I don't care for the notion 'I'll see it when I see it'. The truth is, you'll see it when you are willing to see it, so there is a bit of gaming going on.
What sorcery is this that clips the wings of angels and makes fools of Gods?
From what I've learned so far, that -- presence -- is the take-away. And the lingering questions stretch out and saunter around. ZD you've mentioned 'existential questions' in the past. It's funny because the main pointer -- to presence -- is what I consider as straight-up existentialism. "What's happening?" <-- that's what I consider an existential question. It demands presence.
I hear you and others talking about Oneness and how Consciousness creates everything, Unlimited Potential or Intelligence, and things like that, and I wonder how important those understandings are to straight up presence. When I'm honed in on Presence, all thoughts are seen for what they are -- just passing appearances, like everything else. So these profound attempts to articulate realizations, just come and go away. What's more, I figure it doesn't matter -- those things are realized or they aren't. 'I'll see it when I see it' (and this may be never).
Dear Dude/Dudette,
Remember that Adya quote on RH? 'Dangerous questions' and such?
"NOW what?" is a really profound and existentially dangerous question. It has the potential to instantaneously cut thru mind bugs like the "Andrey/Reaper Dilemma" or the "Wet Towel God Koan" and all kinds of other ESBS (extreme spiritual BS).
Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize
So do you think steven gray means 'Dangerous' in the sense that it cuts through stuff that one may think it's important not to cut through? Doesn't seem so dangerous to me. IOW, asking 'Now what?' I answer two ways: click 'create post' button down there; or continue this post to pontificate a bit more?
... (I will never think of dot dot dot the same way again.)
From what I've learned so far, that -- presence -- is the take-away. And the lingering questions stretch out and saunter around. ZD you've mentioned 'existential questions' in the past. It's funny because the main pointer -- to presence -- is what I consider as straight-up existentialism. "What's happening?" <-- that's what I consider an existential question. It demands presence.
I hear you and others talking about Oneness and how Consciousness creates everything, Unlimited Potential or Intelligence, and things like that, and I wonder how important those understandings are to straight up presence. When I'm honed in on Presence, all thoughts are seen for what they are -- just passing appearances, like everything else. So these profound attempts to articulate realizations, just come and go away. What's more, I figure it doesn't matter -- those things are realized or they aren't. 'I'll see it when I see it' (and this may be never).
The realizations are not articulated so that answers can be found but so that questions can be dissolved in the seeing of that which is pointed to by the articulation. If your attempt to simply be present were perpetually successful, the articulation of the realizations would not be necessary, but the questions remain, and these questions entangle mind without asking permission.
I don't care for the notion 'I'll see it when I see it'. The truth is, you'll see it when you are willing to see it, so there is a bit of gaming going on.
I don't think I understand that. I refer to 'I'll see it when I see it' as an acceptance that Realization can not be understood, only lived. I can not speak confidently about Oneness or Unilimited Intelligence or Conscious creating everything because these remain as concepts to me, they are not lived, there has been no realization. 'You'll see it when you are willing to see it' sounds very close to belief to me.
I do see what you're saying regarding articulating the realizations in the first place: that they're useful for creating other possibilities, breaking down conceptual barriers, so that there is greater allowance for being present to happen.
Remember that Adya quote on RH? 'Dangerous questions' and such?
"NOW what?" is a really profound and existentially dangerous question. It has the potential to instantaneously cut thru mind bugs like the "Andrey/Reaper Dilemma" or the "Wet Towel God Koan" and all kinds of other ESBS (extreme spiritual BS).
Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize
So do you think steven gray means 'Dangerous' in the sense that it cuts through stuff that one may think it's important not to cut through? Doesn't seem so dangerous to me. IOW, asking 'Now what?' I answer two ways: click 'create post' button down there; or continue this post to pontificate a bit more?
... (I will never think of dot dot dot the same way again.)
Dear Dude/Dudette,
Here's the orignal quote:
Q: What is liberated from what?
A: That sort of question is what you are liberated from. Be sincere, don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions - the ones whose answers could change your life.
So do you think steven gray means 'Dangerous' in the sense that it cuts through stuff that one may think it's important not to cut through? Doesn't seem so dangerous to me. IOW, asking 'Now what?' I answer two ways: click 'create post' button down there; or continue this post to pontificate a bit more?
... (I will never think of dot dot dot the same way again.)
Dear Dude/Dudette,
Here's the orignal quote:
Q: What is liberated from what?
A: That sort of question is what you are liberated from. Be sincere, don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions - the ones whose answers could change your life.
Seems to me that Gray Roshi completely rejects all questions coming from the patina experience level of existence.
edit: "NOW what" isn't really asking "What am I going to do now?" It's way more profound.
Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize
Is it dangerous in the sense that there could be stuff that is happening that one does not like and by asking 'Now what?' the invitation is to keep putting one's attention on that stuff? What is trying to be avoided is being placed again back in center stage?