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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 3:09:48 GMT -5
Is reincarnation a fact? Bhagavan: You are incarnated now, aren't you? Then you will be so again. But as the body is illusion then the illusion will repeat itself and keep on repeating itself until you find the Real Self. Question: What is death and what is birth? Bhagavan: Only the body has death and birth, and it [the body] is illusion. There is, in Reality, neither birth nor death. Question: How much time may elapse between death and rebirth? Bhagavan: Perhaps one is reborn within a year, three years or thousands of years. Who can say? Anyway what is time? Time does not exist. Question: Why have we no memory of past lives? Bhagavan: Memory is a faculty of the mind and part of the illusion. Why do you want to remember other lives that are also illusions? If you abide within the Self, there is no past or future and not even a present since the Self is out of time--timeless. Ramana www.oocities.org/goldenage.geo/sriramana.htmPeeps can talk about what incarnates, what is real and what is not all day long .. My point in making is that what you are of the flesh incarnates time and time again . This is a process of life, perceiving Self / self in many shapes and forms .. One can say that this process leads to Self realization eventually .. |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 3:23:46 GMT -5
“Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.”
― Jalaluddin Rumi
''Try to realize you are a divine traveler. You are here for only a little while, then depart for a dissimilar and fascinating world (astral worlds). Do not limit your thought to one brief life and one small earth. Remember the vastness of the Spirit that dwells within you.''
''I also recall my own past incarnations, beyond all doubt. In the Tower of London, for example, I found many places that I remembered from a past life, places the present caretakers didn't know anything about. Because I was once an Englishman, in my childhood in India I preferred to eat with a fork and knife. When my family asked why I wanted to use these instead of my fingers, as is the Indian custom, I said, "I remember this from the past."
''We are the sum total of the consciousness we ourselves have created over a period of incarnations. This mind, or consciousness, is the supreme force that governs all voluntary and involuntary activities of this bodily factory with its multifarious outputs.''
''Reincarnation is the law of spiritual evolution. It gives everything a chance to work out its karma (the law of action). Evolution and reincarnation are methods of propelling all creation toward final freedom in Spirit, held no longer under the natural law of death.''
yogananda
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 3:48:15 GMT -5
"The soul comes from without into the human body, as into a temporary abode, and it goes out of it anew it passes into other habitations, for the soul is immortal." "It is the secret of the world that all things subsist and do not die, but only retire a little from sight and afterwards return again. Nothing is dead; men feign themselves dead, and endure mock funerals… and there they stand looking out of the window, sound and well, in some strange new disguise." —Ralph Waldo Emerson
"He saw all these forms and faces in a thousand relationships become newly born. Each one was mortal, a passionate, painful example of all that is transitory. Yet none of them died, they only changed, were always reborn, continually had a new face: only time stood between one face and another." —Herman Hesse, Siddhartha
"I know I am deathless. No doubt I have died myself ten thousand times before. I laugh at what you call dissolution, and I know the amplitude of time." —Walt Whitman
"Why should we be startled by death? Life is a constant putting off of the mortal coil - coat, cuticle, flesh and bones, all old clothes." —H.D. Thoreau
"I am confident that there truly is such a thing as living again, that the living spring from the dead, and that the souls of the dead are in existence." —Socrates
"As we live through thousands of dreams in our present life, so is our present life only one of many thousands of such lives which we enter from the other more real life and then return after death. Our life is but one of the dreams of that more real life, and so it is endlessly, until the very last one, the very real the life of God." —Count Leo Tolstoy
"It is not more surprising to be born twice than once; everything in nature is resurrection." —Voltaire
"It can be shown that an incorporeal and reasonable being has life in itself independently of the body... then it is beyond a doubt bodies are only of secondary importance and arise from time to time to meet the varying conditions of reasonable creatures. Those who require bodies are clothed with them, and contrariwise, when fallen souls have lifted themselves up to better things their bodies are once more annihilated. They are ever vanishing and ever reappearing." —Origen
"God generates beings, and sends them back over and over again, till they return to Him." —Koran
"`But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.' Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist." —Jesus, (Matthew 17:12, 13)
"Souls are poured from one into another of different kinds of bodies of the world." —Jesus Christ in Gnostic Gospels: Pistis Sophia
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 5:15:34 GMT -5
"The soul comes from without into the human body, as into a temporary abode, and it goes out of it anew it passes into other habitations, for the soul is immortal." "It is the secret of the world that all things subsist and do not die, but only retire a little from sight and afterwards return again. Nothing is dead; men feign themselves dead, and endure mock funerals… and there they stand looking out of the window, sound and well, in some strange new disguise." —Ralph Waldo Emerson "He saw all these forms and faces in a thousand relationships become newly born. Each one was mortal, a passionate, painful example of all that is transitory. Yet none of them died, they only changed, were always reborn, continually had a new face: only time stood between one face and another." —Herman Hesse, Siddhartha "I know I am deathless. No doubt I have died myself ten thousand times before. I laugh at what you call dissolution, and I know the amplitude of time." —Walt Whitman "Why should we be startled by death? Life is a constant putting off of the mortal coil - coat, cuticle, flesh and bones, all old clothes." —H.D. Thoreau "I am confident that there truly is such a thing as living again, that the living spring from the dead, and that the souls of the dead are in existence." —Socrates "As we live through thousands of dreams in our present life, so is our present life only one of many thousands of such lives which we enter from the other more real life and then return after death. Our life is but one of the dreams of that more real life, and so it is endlessly, until the very last one, the very real the life of God." —Count Leo Tolstoy "It is not more surprising to be born twice than once; everything in nature is resurrection." —Voltaire "It can be shown that an incorporeal and reasonable being has life in itself independently of the body... then it is beyond a doubt bodies are only of secondary importance and arise from time to time to meet the varying conditions of reasonable creatures. Those who require bodies are clothed with them, and contrariwise, when fallen souls have lifted themselves up to better things their bodies are once more annihilated. They are ever vanishing and ever reappearing." —Origen "God generates beings, and sends them back over and over again, till they return to Him." —Koran"`But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.' Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist." —Jesus, (Matthew 17:12, 13) "Souls are poured from one into another of different kinds of bodies of the world." —Jesus Christ in Gnostic Gospels: Pistis Sophia  www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/reincarnation_sada.htm
Quote above from link above .. I like this, butt it is a bit of a merry-go-round . What I mean is that there are peeps that are going around this planet stating ..I recognize that I am that sat chit ananda and then there is no more ownership of any karma without actually realizing what they are that is not connected to the ownership of such karma's. Beyond the 'owner' of such ownership there is no relations had to this world or karma or sat chit ananda .You see there has to be an association had while being incarnated to say with certainty that 'reincarnation is not real at the ultimate level' In the same breath when said 'Jiiva (soul) itself is a notion and when that notion is taken as real' then it is the soul that believes anything . So it is in other words the individual soul aspects that is taken as being real in order to say that 'reincarnation is not real at the ultimate level'There requires a foundation of what is real in order to say what is real . The ultimate level there is no-one - no-truth, no soul Jiiva pointers .That's why it's a bit of a merry-go-round . The full para says ''Jiiva (soul) itself is a notion and when that notion is taken as real - all other problems become as real as jiiva. Hence reincarnation and transmigration of soul are all real in that frame of reference''.So we can potentially have a peep that knows that their incarnation, their mind-body is illusory or their association had that refers to 'I AM' is temporary and yet they still abide by such conditions . There has to be a sense of what is real or what is illusory by 'something' and if this something at the ultimate level doesn't know itself or what the world is then what you are that can make such distinctions is caught up in the environment where there is something that can have a notion . He says that the 'soul' or jiiva is a notion, butt saying the 'soul' is a notion is just another notion .. lol, that can only come from something that is not at the ultimate level . |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 5:30:13 GMT -5
Hence what birth I take next depends on the most powerful vasana-s that are ready to germinate next. There is my ‘total bank account’ of karma (saMchita karma), of which I brought into this life only those that can be exhausted (prArabdha karma) and, if in the process I make new ones (AgAmin karma), which cannot be exhausted in this life, these are deposited to my account. Until all vasanas get neutralized, I will continue taking births in one form or the other. By yoga or sAdhanA, I neutralize the vAsanas. When I realize who I am - I am ‘not this, not this’ etc. (since I am the subject that can never be an object 'this') - I recognize that I am that sat chit ananda and then there is no more ownership of any karma. All are transcended in that knowledge of who I am.Quote above from link above .. I like this, butt it is a bit of a merry-go-round . What I mean is that there are peeps that are going around this planet stating ..I recognize that I am that sat chit ananda and then there is no more ownership of any karma without actually realizing what they are that is not connected to the ownership of such karma's. Beyond the 'owner' of such ownership there is no relations had to this world or karma or sat chit ananda .You see there has to be an association had while being incarnated to say with certainty that 'reincarnation is not real at the ultimate level' In the same breath when said 'Jiiva (soul) itself is a notion and when that notion is taken as real' then it is the soul that believes anything . So it is in other words the individual soul aspects that is taken as being real in order to say that 'reincarnation is not real at the ultimate level'There requires a foundation of what is real in order to say what is real . The ultimate level there is no-one - no-truth, no soul Jiiva pointers .That's why it's a bit of a merry-go-round . The full para says ''Jiiva (soul) itself is a notion and when that notion is taken as real - all other problems become as real as jiiva. Hence reincarnation and transmigration of soul are all real in that frame of reference''.So we can potentially have a peep that knows that their incarnation, there mind-body is illusory or there association had that refers to 'I AM' is temporary and yet they still abide by such conditions . There has to be a sense of what is real or what is illusory by 'something' and if this something at the ultimate level doesn't know itself or what the world is then what you are that can make such distinctions is caught up in the environment where there is something that can have a notion . He says that the 'soul' or jiiva is a notion, butt saying the 'soul' is a notion is just another notion .. lol, that can only come from something that is not at the ultimate level . I like it, also. It's describing form and emptiness, and that emptiness is primary such as was pointed to in the bolded Koran quote you posted. I appreciate the link .. Do you understand though that a notion of the soul not being real is just another notion that comes from yet another association .. That is, as said not the 'ultimate level' . So it's not the ultimate level saying what is or isn't the ultimate level ..  |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 5:37:18 GMT -5
I appreciate the link .. Do you understand though that a notion of the soul not being real is just another notion that comes from yet another association .. I realize it is someone's expression of what is. Whether or not it was written as the I Am as movement, or the I Am at peace is unknown. I think if it was written or expressed via the peace unknown there would be no relations to the soul . There would be no reflection or knowing what a soul refers too being real or not . There has to be a foundation to anything that is referred too .. from a particular point . It's like saying the sun is hot .. That statement is made in relation to you and the sun . If one say's the sun is real then that statement will be in reflection of what is real in relation to you . Same applies to a guru saying what is true when referring to Self . |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 5:52:46 GMT -5
I think if it was written or expressed via the peace unknown there would be no relations to the soul . There would be no reflection or knowing what a soul refers too being real or not .There has to be a foundation to anything that is referred too .. from a particular point . It's like saying the sun is hot .. That statement is made in relation to you and the sun . If one say's the sun is real then that statement will be in reflection of what is real in relation to you . Same applies to a guru saying what is true when referring to Self . Agreed. Which would imply that there would be no need or conditions for returning to samsara/recycling. We would be free, and maybe free enough to do so anyway. The heat of the sun would be a body awareness thing. Well the heat of the sun would be a body-awareness thing that would still be in association of what you are that is experiencing the body in reflection of the sun's heat hehehe The ultimate level there is no sun .. sooooooooo?? |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 6:03:51 GMT -5
Well the heat of the sun would be a body-awareness thing that would still be in association of what you are that is experiencing the body in reflection of the sun's heat hehehe The ultimate level there is no sun .. sooooooooo?? The body would inform the mind that the sun is hot. What the mind does with that is anybody's guess. Why would there be no sun in I Am at peace ? After a snooze in the sun the body is burn't upon awakening . If the spirit was not present of the body then the body informs who/m or what that the sun is hot? There is only the sun if there is some-one that can notice it . The ultimate level there in no-one to notice . The ultimate level is beyond the notion / experience of it . |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 6:09:50 GMT -5
Is reincarnation a fact? Bhagavan: You are incarnated now, aren't you? Then you will be so again. But as the body is illusion then the illusion will repeat itself and keep on repeating itself until you find the Real Self. Question: What is death and what is birth? Bhagavan: Only the body has death and birth, and it [the body] is illusion. There is, in Reality, neither birth nor death. Question: How much time may elapse between death and rebirth? Bhagavan: Perhaps one is reborn within a year, three years or thousands of years. Who can say? Anyway what is time? Time does not exist. Question: Why have we no memory of past lives? Bhagavan: Memory is a faculty of the mind and part of the illusion. Why do you want to remember other lives that are also illusions? If you abide within the Self, there is no past or future and not even a present since the Self is out of time--timeless. Ramana www.oocities.org/goldenage.geo/sriramana.htmPeeps can talk about what incarnates, what is real and what is not all day long .. My point in making is that what you are of the flesh incarnates time and time again . This is a process of life, perceiving Self / self in many shapes and forms .. One can say that this process leads to Self realization eventually .. What you quote from Ramana contradicts what you say doesn't it? There is no "what you are of the flesh". The flesh is illusion so there cannot be what you are of an illusion. Self alone is real. |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 6:20:00 GMT -5
Is reincarnation a fact? Bhagavan: You are incarnated now, aren't you? Then you will be so again. But as the body is illusion then the illusion will repeat itself and keep on repeating itself until you find the Real Self. Question: What is death and what is birth? Bhagavan: Only the body has death and birth, and it [the body] is illusion. There is, in Reality, neither birth nor death. Question: How much time may elapse between death and rebirth? Bhagavan: Perhaps one is reborn within a year, three years or thousands of years. Who can say? Anyway what is time? Time does not exist. Question: Why have we no memory of past lives? Bhagavan: Memory is a faculty of the mind and part of the illusion. Why do you want to remember other lives that are also illusions? If you abide within the Self, there is no past or future and not even a present since the Self is out of time--timeless. Ramana www.oocities.org/goldenage.geo/sriramana.htmPeeps can talk about what incarnates, what is real and what is not all day long .. My point in making is that what you are of the flesh incarnates time and time again . This is a process of life, perceiving Self / self in many shapes and forms .. One can say that this process leads to Self realization eventually .. What you quote from Ramana contradicts what you say doesn't it? There is no "what you are of the flesh". The flesh is illusion so there cannot be what you are of an illusion. Self alone is real. I did say what is real or not, peeps can talk about all day long, butt I quoted ramana because he believes that it exists on some level . As said he refers to being incarnate now . |
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Post by sadsack on Jan 13, 2017 6:21:22 GMT -5
I realize it is someone's expression of what is. Whether or not it was written as the I Am as movement, or the I Am at peace is unknown. I think if it was written or expressed via the peace unknown there would be no relations to the soul . There would be no reflection or knowing what a soul refers too being real or not . There has to be a foundation to anything that is referred too .. from a particular point . It's like saying the sun is hot .. That statement is made in relation to you and the sun . If one say's the sun is real then that statement will be in reflection of what is real in relation to you . Same applies to a guru saying what is true when referring to Self . that the body of knowledge was the Soul which comes and goes at will, THAT which gradually settles back into the center of gravity where we first kicked-in during the initial cell-splitting commotion of Mum and Dads big-bang, THAT same GAP we all enter Life through tenka... but now I am not too sure.  It has been a longtime since I investigated reincarnation and its associated phenomenon.Thank you for starting this-line-of-thinking as no-doubt other Souls will have something to say on how they first became their body of knowledge THAT which careers about the Universe, sometimes in more than two places simultaneously. |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2017 6:25:48 GMT -5
After a snooze in the sun the body is burn't upon awakening . If the spirit was not present of the body then the body informs who/m or what that the sun is hot? There is only the sun if there is some-one that can notice it . The ultimate level there in no-one to notice .
The ultimate level is beyond the notion / experience of it .Something would still be noticing. Empty of content. If I looked in the mirror I would still see something. There you have it . If 'I' looked in the mirror hehehe . If you looked in the mirror it would not be empty of content . When the spirit is not of the body, the body can't stand upright, and perceive a reflection of the body . Perception only happens when you are present perceiving .. The ultimate level there is no 'I' or body that can cast a shadow or create a reflection . |
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Post by sadsack on Jan 13, 2017 6:41:15 GMT -5
Something would still be noticing. Empty of content. If I looked in the mirror I would still see something. There you have it . If 'I' looked in the mirror hehehe . If you looked in the mirror it would not be empty of content . When the spirit is not of the body, the body can't stand upright, and perceive a reflection of the body . Perception only happens when you are present perceiving .. The ultimate level there is no 'I' or body that can cast a shadow or create a reflection . When the Soul leaves the body to check-out what is about to come through an opening door and quickly returns to re-enter its falling fleshy-body before it falls too-far, it does so in the blink of an eye. Souls have the use of the Spirit and can go places they're thinking about sending thought-forms of its Self to the place they're going to visit at the next week, which can be noticed by sensitives already at the destination site, alerting them that your Soul will be visiting. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 6:48:34 GMT -5
Something would still be noticing. Empty of content. If I looked in the mirror I would still see something. There you have it . If 'I' looked in the mirror hehehe . If you looked in the mirror it would not be empty of content . When the spirit is not of the body, the body can't stand upright, and perceive a reflection of the body .Perception only happens when you are present perceiving .. The ultimate level there is no 'I' or body that can cast a shadow or create a reflection . So in your language it is your spirit that is perceiving? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 6:52:24 GMT -5
There you have it . If 'I' looked in the mirror hehehe . If you looked in the mirror it would not be empty of content . When the spirit is not of the body, the body can't stand upright, and perceive a reflection of the body . Perception only happens when you are present perceiving .. The ultimate level there is no 'I' or body that can cast a shadow or create a reflection . When the Soul leaves the body to check-out what is about to come through an opening door and quickly returns to re-enter its falling fleshy-body before it falls too-far, it does so in the blink of an eye. Souls have the use of the Spirit and can go places they're thinking about sending thought-forms of its Self to the place they're going to visit at the next week, which can be noticed by sensitives already at the destination site, alerting them that your Soul will be visiting. Did those places exist before the thinking about them? |
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