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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 23, 2014 6:42:34 GMT -5
... wow, if past me from two years ago read that last sentence he'd sh!t a brick!  Funny how that is sometimes.  I agree with all of that. Its just that its hard to find a cartoon to convey all of that  |
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Post by laughter on Aug 23, 2014 7:51:27 GMT -5
Funny how that is sometimes. I agree with all of that. Its just that its hard to find a cartoon to convey all of that No. It's really easy. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 22:10:52 GMT -5
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 25, 2014 18:41:07 GMT -5
"In deep sleep, consciousness was in a dormant condition, there were no bodies, no concepts, no encumbrances. Upon the arrival of this apparently wakeful state, with the arrival of the concept “I Am”, the love of “I Am” woke up. That itself is Maya, illusion. The concept ‘I am’ is the primordial maya. Along with that God, Ishvara, and the whole manifestation, the entire universe, has come. Otherwise there is absolutely nothing. In the state of the Absolute there is neither Being nor non-Being."
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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2014 19:04:04 GMT -5
"In deep sleep, consciousness was in a dormant condition, there were no bodies, no concepts, no encumbrances. Upon the arrival of this apparently wakeful state, with the arrival of the concept “I Am”, the love of “I Am” woke up. That itself is Maya, illusion. The concept ‘I am’ is the primordial maya. Along with that God, Ishvara, and the whole manifestation, the entire universe, has come. Otherwise there is absolutely nothing. In the state of the Absolute there is neither Being nor non-Being." And prior to the concept 'I am' is the sense of existence, or the sense 'I am'. This is non-conceptual and is not illusion. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 25, 2014 19:55:53 GMT -5
"In deep sleep, consciousness was in a dormant condition, there were no bodies, no concepts, no encumbrances. Upon the arrival of this apparently wakeful state, with the arrival of the concept “I Am”, the love of “I Am” woke up. That itself is Maya, illusion. The concept ‘I am’ is the primordial maya. Along with that God, Ishvara, and the whole manifestation, the entire universe, has come. Otherwise there is absolutely nothing. In the state of the Absolute there is neither Being nor non-Being." And prior to the concept 'I am' is the sense of existence, or the sense 'I am'. This is non-conceptual and is not illusion. You drew a line between "the concept 'I am" and "the sense of existence". One is a thought and one is a sensation directly experienced, both known to the knower. How can the known not be conceptual? |
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Post by enigma on Aug 25, 2014 23:12:12 GMT -5
And prior to the concept 'I am' is the sense of existence, or the sense 'I am'. This is non-conceptual and is not illusion. You drew a line between "the concept 'I am" and "the sense of existence". One is a thought and one is a sensation directly experienced, both known to the knower. How can the known not be conceptual?Because it can, unless you conceptualize about it too much. You know that you exist before you ever have a thought about it. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 26, 2014 6:01:45 GMT -5
You drew a line between "the concept 'I am" and "the sense of existence". One is a thought and one is a sensation directly experienced, both known to the knower. How can the known not be conceptual?Because it can, unless you conceptualize about it too much. You know that you exist before you ever have a thought about it.Yes, that would be the wordless sense of existence. This is baby's first wordless, conscious knowing, and is ever present if unrecognized, but that state is not eternal. That is not to say that there isn't something that is Eternal, it's just to say that the "sense that you are" isn't it. Awareness in which the sense of existence arose is Eternal. This needs to be seen to be understood. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 26, 2014 7:38:56 GMT -5
Because it can, unless you conceptualize about it too much. You know that you exist before you ever have a thought about it.Yes, that would be the wordless sense of existence. This is baby's first wordless, conscious knowing, and is ever present if unrecognized, but that state is not eternal. That is not to say that there isn't something that is Eternal, it's just to say that the "sense that you are" isn't it. Awareness in which the sense of existence arose is Eternal. This needs to be seen to be understood. "It's" not a "thing", and that's why Niz used indeterminsims such as "beyond being and non-being" when he talked about "it". |
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 26, 2014 7:52:57 GMT -5
Yes, that would be the wordless sense of existence. This is baby's first wordless, conscious knowing, and is ever present if unrecognized, but that state is not eternal. That is not to say that there isn't something that is Eternal, it's just to say that the "sense that you are" isn't it. Awareness in which the sense of existence arose is Eternal. This needs to be seen to be understood. "It's" not a "thing", and that's why Niz used indeterminsims such as "beyond being and non-being" when he talked about "it". And "beyond knowing and not knowing". Its the problem of using words to talk about what can't be talked about. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 26, 2014 8:04:35 GMT -5
"It's" not a "thing", and that's why Niz used indeterminsims such as "beyond being and non-being" when he talked about "it". And "beyond knowing and not knowing". Its the problem of using words to talk about what can't be talked about. Well that's the thing, it's not really a problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 8:27:04 GMT -5
Because it can, unless you conceptualize about it too much. You know that you exist before you ever have a thought about it.Yes, that would be the wordless sense of existence. This is baby's first wordless, conscious knowing, and is ever present if unrecognized, but that state is not eternal. That is not to say that there isn't something that is Eternal, it's just to say that the "sense that you are" isn't it. Awareness in which the sense of existence arose is Eternal. This needs to be seen to be understood. I'm not seeing it; at least the positive aspect. Eternal, like infinite, can only be imagined ... and not very well at that. The negative aspect, that the terms merely point to a lack of limitations or boundaries, is easier to understand. But it ain't possible to wrap our little minds around the positive aspect. Of course someone who is Realized may say their mind is informed and knows eternity or infinity, but I'll doubt it 'til I get a taste. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 26, 2014 8:43:45 GMT -5
Yes, that would be the wordless sense of existence. This is baby's first wordless, conscious knowing, and is ever present if unrecognized, but that state is not eternal. That is not to say that there isn't something that is Eternal, it's just to say that the "sense that you are" isn't it. Awareness in which the sense of existence arose is Eternal. This needs to be seen to be understood. I'm not seeing it; at least the positive aspect. Eternal, like infinite, can only be imagined ... and not very well at that. The negative aspect, that the terms merely point to a lack of limitations or boundaries, is easier to understand. But it ain't possible to wrap our little minds around the positive aspect. Of course someone who is Realized may say their mind is informed and knows eternity or infinity, but I'll doubt it 'til I get a taste. Stay with what you know. You know you exist. Stay with your sense of existence. Quietly meditate on it, watch it, be it, it IS your only reality. If you persist with conviction the taste will come, along with Understanding. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 26, 2014 9:56:04 GMT -5
Because it can, unless you conceptualize about it too much. You know that you exist before you ever have a thought about it.Yes, that would be the wordless sense of existence. This is baby's first wordless, conscious knowing, and is ever present if unrecognized, but that state is not eternal. That is not to say that there isn't something that is Eternal, it's just to say that the "sense that you are" isn't it. Awareness in which the sense of existence arose is Eternal. This needs to be seen to be understood. As has been mentioned many times, the sense 'I am' arises and falls with individuated consciousness, so yes it comes and goes. I use the term 'existence' to refer to that which knows of this coming and going, which cannot be consciousness. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 26, 2014 10:08:25 GMT -5
Yes, that would be the wordless sense of existence. This is baby's first wordless, conscious knowing, and is ever present if unrecognized, but that state is not eternal. That is not to say that there isn't something that is Eternal, it's just to say that the "sense that you are" isn't it. Awareness in which the sense of existence arose is Eternal. This needs to be seen to be understood. I'm not seeing it; at least the positive aspect. Eternal, like infinite, can only be imagined ... and not very well at that. The negative aspect, that the terms merely point to a lack of limitations or boundaries, is easier to understand. But it ain't possible to wrap our little minds around the positive aspect. Of course someone who is Realized may say their mind is informed and knows eternity or infinity, but I'll doubt it 'til I get a taste. Yes, it is an absence only, even for the 'realized'. What is realized is that boundaries are illusions, which is the same as the realization of oneness, infinity and eternity. Don't wrap, just unwrap. |
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