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Post by esponja on Dec 10, 2012 17:32:45 GMT -5
I am depressed. I've been prone to misery and negativity since I was a young teen, but these days it's reached a new level and my brain has pretty much shut down as a protective mechanism against it. This happened after seeing that there is no 'self' in thoughts. So what exactly is the big deal? Why do people go to Satsangs? Who would want to find this out? I envy those that never analyse themselves. Those people who are too stupid to question anything. Who wouldn't want to be more like them? Perhaps we could say that it is a more shallow existence - but they wouldn't know about that, or even care. Discuss. I don't think you saw anything. I think you convinced yourself of something that seemed logically plausible. I think you did so for the same reason people go to satsangs. You thought you would get something. The problem is that you're now reaping the unbearably debilitating effects of such a belief. So how does he fix this?
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Post by esponja on Dec 10, 2012 17:35:15 GMT -5
I am depressed. I've been prone to misery and negativity since I was a young teen, but these days it's reached a new level and my brain has pretty much shut down as a protective mechanism against it. This happened after seeing that there is no 'self' in thoughts. So what exactly is the big deal? Why do people go to Satsangs? Who would want to find this out? I envy those that never analyse themselves. Those people who are too stupid to question anything. Who wouldn't want to be more like them? Perhaps we could say that it is a more shallow existence - but they wouldn't know about that, or even care. Discuss. The "personal self" tends to be heavy. When the scary self-thoughts stop, there can be lightness. Just as there is no "personal self," there are no others either. People going to satsangs and people who never analyze themselves are the same being you are. First find the truth about your own being and then see what happens with the others. Aaahhh if only t'was that easy...
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Post by relinquish on Dec 10, 2012 19:18:56 GMT -5
The "personal self" tends to be heavy. When the scary self-thoughts stop, there can be lightness. Just as there is no "personal self," there are no others either. People going to satsangs and people who never analyze themselves are the same being you are. First find the truth about your own being and then see what happens with the others. Aaahhh if only t'was that easy... What is it that you find makes it any more difficult than this?
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Post by esponja on Dec 10, 2012 19:28:07 GMT -5
Aaahhh if only t'was that easy... What is it that you find makes it any more difficult than this? Well its the last bit...'find the truth about your own being'. It isn't that simple. Midnight has looked and has seen but apparently that is still minding right? Unless I've misunderstood the thread. So until Mind falls silent and the belief really drops away, it's not that easy. As I keep hearing, we (seekers) need a visit from that Grace lady :-)
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Post by enigma on Dec 10, 2012 22:39:49 GMT -5
What is it that you find makes it any more difficult than this? Well its the last bit...'find the truth about your own being'. It isn't that simple. Midnight has looked and has seen but apparently that is still minding right? Unless I've misunderstood the thread. So until Mind falls silent and the belief really drops away, it's not that easy. As I keep hearing, we (seekers) need a visit from that Grace lady :-) You also keep hearing that Grace is a sham, cuz I keep saying it. To be more better clearerer, Grace is one of those ideas that can only cause trouble. You might have heard Mooji say "Everything is Grace", so where is that lady and where is she not?
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Post by topology on Dec 10, 2012 23:05:03 GMT -5
I don't think you saw anything. I think you convinced yourself of something that seemed logically plausible. I think you did so for the same reason people go to satsangs. You thought you would get something. The problem is that you're now reaping the unbearably debilitating effects of such a belief. So how does he fix this? fix what?
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Post by enigma on Dec 11, 2012 0:55:43 GMT -5
It's an odd thing to fix a figment of the imagination, isn't it? How does one do that? How does one put the genie back in the bottle?
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Post by esponja on Dec 11, 2012 1:47:27 GMT -5
Well its the last bit...'find the truth about your own being'. It isn't that simple. Midnight has looked and has seen but apparently that is still minding right? Unless I've misunderstood the thread. So until Mind falls silent and the belief really drops away, it's not that easy. As I keep hearing, we (seekers) need a visit from that Grace lady :-) You also keep hearing that Grace is a sham, cuz I keep saying it. To be more better clearerer, Grace is one of those ideas that can only cause trouble. You might have heard Mooji say "Everything is Grace", so where is that lady and where is she not? To be honest, I haven't heard you say that, not saying you haven't said it but just that I haven't seen it, I don't read all the threads so have probably missed it. What u say there makes sense though.
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Post by esponja on Dec 11, 2012 1:48:52 GMT -5
The bit that says...I don't think you saw anything. Not disagreeing with it but what's Midnight supposed to do about the fact that he obviously thinks he's seen something?
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Post by esponja on Dec 11, 2012 1:54:22 GMT -5
It's an odd thing to fix a figment of the imagination, isn't it? How does one do that? How does one put the genie back in the bottle? You can't. But it's frustrating for a seeker to hear it's your imagination then nothing changes. I guess it must happen eventually if you keep looking.
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Post by topology on Dec 11, 2012 2:10:23 GMT -5
It's an odd thing to fix a figment of the imagination, isn't it? How does one do that? How does one put the genie back in the bottle? You can't. But it's frustrating for a seeker to hear it's your imagination then nothing changes. I guess it must happen eventually if you keep looking. The solution is to reject thinking there is a problem to begin with. The most direct way to reject this thinking is to see directly there is no problem. However, one is usually not able to see this due to confirmation bias at play. Then it is a matter of getting tired of thinking there is a problem that needs to be solved. You keep trying to solve it but the problem doesn't go away. You realize you are living the Myth of Sysaphus. With respect to seeing there is no self, typically the frequency of self-oriented thoughts has to reduce enough to where the hypnotic suggestion of there being a self begins to fade between thoughts. One begins to perceive themselves as a universal/impersonal presence, i.e. the same as what is present in everyone. Self-oriented thoughts still occur, but the direct seeing of what one's essence is has weakened them to being meaningless thoughts from a mind habituated to making noise.
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Post by esponja on Dec 11, 2012 2:19:52 GMT -5
You can't. But it's frustrating for a seeker to hear it's your imagination then nothing changes. I guess it must happen eventually if you keep looking. The solution is to reject thinking there is a problem to begin with. The most direct way to reject this thinking is to see directly there is no problem. However, one is usually not able to see this due to confirmation bias at play. Then it is a matter of getting tired of thinking there is a problem that needs to be solved. You keep trying to solve it but the problem doesn't go away. You realize you are living the Myth of Sysaphus. With respect to seeing there is no self, typically the frequency of self-oriented thoughts has to reduce enough to where the hypnotic suggestion of there being a self begins to fade between thoughts. One begins to perceive themselves as a universal/impersonal presence, i.e. the same as what is present in everyone. Self-oriented thoughts still occur, but the direct seeing of what one's essence is has weakened them to being meaningless thoughts from a mind habituated to making noise. Yes brilliant! Just direct instructions...that's what I was getting at and that's better!
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Post by enigma on Dec 11, 2012 3:01:39 GMT -5
You also keep hearing that Grace is a sham, cuz I keep saying it. To be more better clearerer, Grace is one of those ideas that can only cause trouble. You might have heard Mooji say "Everything is Grace", so where is that lady and where is she not? To be honest, I haven't heard you say that, not saying you haven't said it but just that I haven't seen it, I don't read all the threads so have probably missed it. What u say there makes sense though. Oh, okay. I said something recently in response a similar comment about waiting for Grace, so I figured you had heard that comment, and my response. What is being referred to in this concept is that mind cannot rescue one from mind, or to put it another way, the imagined person cannot rescue the person from the person. This has lots of folks sitting on their hands waiting for something to save them, but nothing ever will. The point that is often missed is that the mind and the person don't need to be rescued, and the idea that they do simply reinforces the notion that the mind identified person is real. Whatever the source of Grace is, you....are....that. God waiting around for God to save him is Divine insanity. The person never existed. God will save himself from the person.
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Post by silence on Dec 11, 2012 11:55:20 GMT -5
I don't think you saw anything. I think you convinced yourself of something that seemed logically plausible. I think you did so for the same reason people go to satsangs. You thought you would get something. The problem is that you're now reaping the unbearably debilitating effects of such a belief. So how does he fix this? It's a position that I reckon a lot of people who get involved with listening and reading this type of material end up in. Midnight may be at the far end of the spectrum or he may have just been depressed for years and now a new focus has emerged to take over the last one. I've said it before, but I think a lot of people turn to spirituality as a last resort when everything else starts to fail. They start with feel good self talk and move through phases eventually arriving at people staring into cameras telling you you're the wave of the ocean. Skepticism eventually begins to melt away since so many people saying a similar thing must have "something" to it. Since what people call non-duality can actually make logical sense, a firm new belief system can be erected. The belief system is really the product of the same tunnel vision that got them interested in spirituality to begin with. That is, feel better at all costs. As soon as someone hears that all they have to do is notice there's no self and all their problems will melt away and/or bliss or whatever else will take its place, they charge ahead. It's the avoidance game through and through. The very reason why the seeking to feel better in the first place is happening is because various aspects have been thrust away, ignored, rejected and/or put into bad categories. There isn't some special non-duality secret that only the really lucky ones find to destroy their suffering. There literally is no substitute for being radically honest. For people looking for a quick fix it can be a long painful, "what the hell did I get myself into" journey through the labyrinth of mind playing both the role of the criminal and the police. The demolition man and the builder. As with any belief, especially one that flies in the face of your daily experience, it requires constant maintenance. The power that you hold is actually tremendous and truly ironic. How else could someone run around saying "I lost myself and I'm really upset about it!". Fixing it is an absurd notion on a much larger context where nothing is a problem. In another way, it's clearly problematic. If you want to approach it from that angle, it's merely a matter of being clear about the absurdity. There's the 10 million dollar question. That's where being clear about where you're looking from can be helpful.
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Post by freddy on Dec 12, 2012 10:53:45 GMT -5
I am depressed. I've been prone to misery and negativity since I was a young teen, but these days it's reached a new level and my brain has pretty much shut down as a protective mechanism against it. This happened after seeing that there is no 'self' in thoughts. So what exactly is the big deal? Why do people go to Satsangs? Who would want to find this out? I envy those that never analyse themselves. Those people who are too stupid to question anything. Who wouldn't want to be more like them? Perhaps we could say that it is a more shallow existence - but they wouldn't know about that, or even care. Discuss. The "personal self" tends to be heavy. When the scary self-thoughts stop, there can be lightness. Just as there is no "personal self," there are no others either. People going to satsangs and people who never analyze themselves are the same being you are. First find the truth about your own being and then see what happens with the others. I'm posting here, because my own thread is exploded with thousend messages and I cannot follow it anymore. Not only that I'm so lost in my own life, the extreme fear of death and rebirth and the unvertainity if I'm the only one looking into this world drives me crazy. How can I find the truth, Portto ? I feel like I wander around in utter darkness, not knowing where I should go or what needs to be done. I have lost all the interest and desires in becoming somebody or having financial wealth. All these things which I sought in the past are nonsense, empty. It has no value anymore. Life is a show of smoke and mirrors. I cannot stand this emptiness anymore.
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