|
|
Post by lightmystic on May 26, 2009 10:03:06 GMT -5
I suppose phrases like "we do not judge, we only love", sounds like judgment, like rules. It's like there's a fear of judging others, a fear of feeling something other than love towards them. I'm not chastising you for that, as I don't think there's anything wrong with it, it just seems like you are being hard on yourself and others to say that. As you aptly point out, those that judge are doing so innocently. It's true that it causes pain, but it isn't an intentional thing. I find that love is a spontaneous thing. To the extent that my heart is not open I CANNOT love. And it would be mean and unloving to berate myself for that or, worse, to pretend like the love is there when it's not. To the extent that my heart IS open, I can't NOT love.... I'm saying that the feeling behind the judgment that we should love is, perhaps, not loving.... That is certainly not my intention - but words can be read thru any filter. Perhaps also written such.... |
|
|
|
Post by drifte on May 28, 2009 8:26:15 GMT -5
It has occurred to me, over time, that there are perhaps as many ways of answering the views of others as there are moments of perception.
In one moment we may try, hard as we can, to respond to ideas or insights in as kind and nonjudgmental a way as possible.
In another moments, it may seem that the truth (a subjective idea, I know) of what we see is of primary importance; we want to "channel" the spirit that wells up from within - and do that without diluting its essential message. This of course can sometimes be misconstrued as judgment or attack. In mixed company - and especially when building new relationships, this is inevitable
So, what is the proper "way" in each moment?
I have found that the only way to communicate the life lessons I have learned over my short stay on this planet is by coming from a place of love. Of course, this will always come across as "my" particular flavor of that great principle - it comes from within me, from the heart center of my individualized experience. And that would appear to limit the scope of my approach - to personal opinions (through those "filters" I mentioned earlier).
However, I have found in recent years, through meditation and related spiritual pursuits, that the sense of that heart center in me has taken on deeper and deeper meanings. Portals to other realms have been permanently opened. And when I now speak of things - my words and views are more colored by the stroke of a cosmic brush - and the hand of the Universal Creator.
I am always a little saddened when words I speak are not received as they are meant to be given.
But those words come from a place of "knowing" that I have long ago learned to accept without question. It is what it is.
And we are all brothers/sisters.
Peace,
L2L
|
|
|
|
Post by Peter on May 28, 2009 10:02:25 GMT -5
Ahh, you've taken the King's shilling and registered a username then Light2Light, well done. Welcome again, more formally. when I now speak of things - my words and views are more colored by the stroke of a cosmic brush - and the hand of the Universal Creator. Righty-ho then, I look forward to reading your colourful words, guided by the hand of the Universal Creator. Will they look just like the rest of creation then, or is there something specific I should be looking out for? those words come from a place of "knowing" that I have long ago learned to accept without question. It is what it is. Although you make accept the words that come to you without question, I hope you won't take offence at others questioning them? And we are all brothers/sisters. Were you an only child? Most brothers and sisters I know fight like cats and dogs. And if not fighting, certainly teasing each other mercilessly. I'm reminded of this passage in Matthew kingjbible.com/matthew/10.htmPay me no mind, L2L, I'm in a feisty mood after reading the coverage of this year's Bilderberg Group meeting. I do look forward to hearing what you have to say. |
|
|
|
Post by drifte on May 28, 2009 10:16:54 GMT -5
Yes, it has seemed to me that,somehow there is more challenge than acceptance behind the "spirit" of hospitality here. It is an interesting phenomenon coming from a group that is labeled "spiritual". Alas, this world does create the illusion of separation and thus, distrust, does it not?
I shall observe that before deciding whether this is a welcome nook for me to rest in along my path.
L2L
|
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on May 28, 2009 10:24:57 GMT -5
Hey L2L, Welcome to the forum! Do not worry, I was just inquiring into your meaning. There are no hard feelings from this side, and I apologize if your feelings were hurt. That was not intentional. I find that, as long as we are acting in integrity with ourselves, then there is a sort of flow that comes out, and that can be received. If you find yourself being judgmental, then looking into where that is coming from can be useful. Judgment comes from not getting what you genuinely need. It's like a frustrated child. Instead of telling the child that he is wrong, it's better to inquire into why the child is frustrated so he can relax and be happy. I find that same is true for all emotions, including judgmental-ness. I definitely agree that people can get stuck in that, and then they become lost in it. And that's not useful either, so realizing that judging others actually makes you not feel good is a wonderful and profound recognition as far as I'm concerned. But I find that letting the Creator flow through us is a simple as getting out of the way. It's actually more energy for it not to happen than to happen. But there are so many ways that we've been used to resisting to protect ourselves that it's nearly impossible to live that way, at least initially. But it does come with time and attention. But, my experience is that it seems to come from accepting those parts of ourselves and of life that we are not okay with, welcoming them with open arms. They have their function, and it's not necessarily our job to like it, but to recognize and appreciate it's value. And I think that recognizing that there is a purpose for each function in life can start to let us move more and more towards acceptance, and eventually full on appreciation. And what is more living in the flow than living in deep appreciation of all aspects of God's wonderful Creation? It has occurred to me, over time, that there are perhaps as many ways of answering the views of others as there are moments of perception. In one moment we may try, hard as we can, to respond to ideas or insights in as kind and nonjudgmental a way as possible. In another moments, it may seem that the truth (a subjective idea, I know) of what we see is of primary importance; we want to "channel" the spirit that wells up from within - and do that without diluting its essential message. This of course can sometimes be misconstrued as judgment or attack. In mixed company - and especially when building new relationships, this is inevitable So, what is the proper "way" in each moment? I have found that the only way to communicate the life lessons I have learned over my short stay on this planet is by coming from a place of love. Of course, this will always come across as "my" particular flavor of that great principle - it comes from within me, from the heart center of my individualized experience. And that would appear to limit the scope of my approach - to personal opinions (through those "filters" I mentioned earlier). However, I have found in recent years, through meditation and related spiritual pursuits, that the sense of that heart center in me has taken on deeper and deeper meanings. Portals to other realms have been permanently opened. And when I now speak of things - my words and views are more colored by the stroke of a cosmic brush - and the hand of the Universal Creator. I am always a little saddened when words I speak are not received as they are meant to be given. But those words come from a place of "knowing" that I have long ago learned to accept without question. It is what it is. And we are all brothers/sisters. Peace, L2L |
|
|
|
Post by Peter on May 28, 2009 10:44:11 GMT -5
Yes, it has seemed to me that,somehow there is more challenge than acceptance behind the "spirit" of hospitality here. Do you not think that the Spiritual life should be more about challenge than acceptance? Otherwise where is the transformation? Where is the change? But like all things on the planet we are pulled by the moon and flow with the tide. Moods change. Personally I have a tendency to challenge posters who come in with a "I'm a teacher, I have answers" attitude more than the "I'm a student, I have questions" variety. It's not about trust. I trust that you are representing yourself authentically. I shall observe that before deciding whether this is a welcome nook for me to rest in along my path. You're here to rest? Oh dear dear me, that will never do!  But you are welcome. As I see it, this is not a nook, this is the path. |
|
|
|
Post by drifte on May 28, 2009 14:29:46 GMT -5
"But like all things on the planet we are pulled by the moon and flow with the tide. Moods change. Personally I have a tendency to challenge posters who come in with a "I'm a teacher, I have answers" attitude more than the "I'm a student, I have questions" variety."
Funny, I was getting that one-upmanship thing from you.
Thank God for free will.
Ta
|
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on May 28, 2009 17:14:15 GMT -5
Well, we're all students of life here, but we also have a lot to offer each other. I don't see any reason why there can't be both acceptance along WITH good natured challenge. That's the stuff at it's best, at least in my humble opinion. Because then the feeling level is not coming from a place of need or separation, and there is deep progress being made.... "But like all things on the planet we are pulled by the moon and flow with the tide. Moods change. Personally I have a tendency to challenge posters who come in with a "I'm a teacher, I have answers" attitude more than the "I'm a student, I have questions" variety." Funny, I was getting that one-upmanship thing from you. Thank God for free will. Ta |
|
|
|
Post by Peter on May 29, 2009 4:35:11 GMT -5
Funny, I was getting that one-upmanship thing from you. That's something I'll consider. It reminded me about the psychological activity of "Feeding", and I include a description of it below. Castaneda said that we all share The Predator's mind, so everyone will attempt to feed off others in some way or another at some time. So whether this applies to you or me or (more likely) both, is immaterial. Safe Travels, Peter --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Feeding on Others This concept encompasses both psychological manipulation and a sort of psychic game of dominance and exploitation. The physical or psychological part consists of exercising some form of emotional control over another. The psychic or metaphysical part involves depleting another's life force for one's own gain. This is a sort of vampirism. Feeding of some sort is very common and often happens without conscious intent or knowledge of the participants. It is felt as either tiredness, irritation, indifference or excitement or high or any of many sensations, depending on whether one be the food or the feeder. The human being requires a sort of mental food of impressions and attention. The fact that babies die if they do not get any attention is a witness to this. The biological mechanism is genetically programmed to get this food of attention in one way or another. Even negative attention is better than none. This basic need can develop into all manner of manipulative behaviors that seek to feed off the attention of others. Narcissism is a far gone example of this. On the other hand, such tendencies do not have to result from deprivation, they can be quite congenital, as with the psychopath. Not all predators think of themselves as such. They will usually try to reverse the entire situation if they are confronted with evidence of their behavior. Emotionally or physically disengaging from the dynamic is best. More Here |
|
LifelonglearnerThomas
Guest
|
Post by LifelonglearnerThomas on Jun 9, 2009 22:21:22 GMT -5
Answer: 1. Arrogance stops people from being enlightened. Use The Mind and Soul Duster to see the answer for yourself.
2. Your version of enlightenment may vary from the realistic enlightenment. Use The Mind and Soul Duster to see the answer for yourself.
THE MIND AND SOUL DUSTER
Warning: First time users may experience shock or uncomfortable feelings
Mind collects knowledge
Knowledge becomes capability
Capability creates achievement
Achievement increases pride, gratification and confidence
Misused pride and confidence are called arrogance
Arrogance blocks the mind becoming greater intellectually and spiritually
In its worst form, arrogance makes the mind hostile toward others
Soul comprises greed and empathy
Greed cares only for self
Empathy considers others
Excessive use of greed makes the soul selfish
Excessive use of empathy makes the soul generous
Balanced use of greed and empathy makes the soul normal
Excessive use of arrogance and greed can make the mind and soul evil
Unconsciously, arrogance and greed increase in every mind and soul
Please recognize and dust off the arrogance and excessive greed in yours today
Do not let arrogance and excessive greed stop you from lifelong learning or harm yourself and others
Listen conscientiously: It’s the repeated longing whisper from the divine spirit deep in your soul
Direction of use: Post at visible places. The Soul and Mind Duster removes arrogance, excessive greed when it dusts through a mind and soul. Recite periodically.
The Soul and Mind Project
|
|
|
|
Post by hcspirit on Jul 6, 2009 2:21:47 GMT -5
I think you are confusing those who are known teachers with those who are enlightened. Those who are known teachers are a small subset of those who are enlightened.
Your statement that they have been "mostly men" should itself be a clue: until relatively recently most cultures were hostile towards recognizing any "exceptional" (for lack of a better word) quality in women, yet it's widely understood in most contemporary cultures that women are no less able in most respects, including spirituality, than men. Where then are all the enlightened women that should have existed but do not appear in your count? They are lost to history, unknown -- as are many enlightened men throughout history.
A good number of enlightened persons have come from traditions where enlightenment, for whatever reason, is unlikely to be acknowledged. Most spiritual practice after all is not Buddhist or Hindu or contemporary Hindu and Buddhist influenced "new age" spirituality, and quite a bit of it doesn't like to draw attention to enlightenment. For example, the Catholic Church is not an institution willing to acknowledge enlightenment among its members, yet two millennia of dedicated Catholic monasticism must surely have produced enlightenment among its mystics. It's easier to believe that drawing attention to the enlightenment of members runs against the grain in contemplative groups like the Quakers than it is to believe there have few or no enlightened Quakers.
And it's unlikely indeed that many many millennia of indigenous religious practices in countless cultures around the world produced nothing at all in the way of enlightenment -- it's far more likely that they produced little in the way of surviving records.
That said, it's true that enlightenment is not commonplace. I don't know why.
|
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on Jul 6, 2009 10:49:14 GMT -5
The only reason that I can see why Enlightenment would not be commonplace is that people identify themselves as a limited concept. Dropping that concept (AKA Enlightenment) appears to look like annihilation of the one that would want it. And that doesn't make any sense! It can seem incredibly threatening. In fact, in some ways it's amazing that anyone would even consider dropping that concept considering what it appears to mean! That said, there seems to be an underlying drive that takes over when the waking up process starts to happen, as there is some Awareness of what we actually are and have always been, and our old way of existing feels very confining in contrast. This provides the motivation to let it go. It's true that it can happen in a very gentle, natural way - accidentally - too, but that's only if it creeps on slow enough.... Anyway, what do you think? I think you are confusing those who are known teachers with those who are enlightened. Those who are known teachers are a small subset of those who are enlightened. Your statement that they have been "mostly men" should itself be a clue: until relatively recently most cultures were hostile towards recognizing any "exceptional" (for lack of a better word) quality in women, yet it's widely understood in most contemporary cultures that women are no less able in most respects, including spirituality, than men. Where then are all the enlightened women that should have existed but do not appear in your count? They are lost to history, unknown -- as are many enlightened men throughout history. A good number of enlightened persons have come from traditions where enlightenment, for whatever reason, is unlikely to be acknowledged. Most spiritual practice after all is not Buddhist or Hindu or contemporary Hindu and Buddhist influenced "new age" spirituality, and quite a bit of it doesn't like to draw attention to enlightenment. For example, the Catholic Church is not an institution willing to acknowledge enlightenment among its members, yet two millennia of dedicated Catholic monasticism must surely have produced enlightenment among its mystics. It's easier to believe that drawing attention to the enlightenment of members runs against the grain in contemplative groups like the Quakers than it is to believe there have few or no enlightened Quakers. And it's unlikely indeed that many many millennia of indigenous religious practices in countless cultures around the world produced nothing at all in the way of enlightenment -- it's far more likely that they produced little in the way of surviving records. That said, it's true that enlightenment is not commonplace. I don't know why. |
|
|
|
Post by hcspirit on Jul 8, 2009 1:31:24 GMT -5
The only reason that I can see why Enlightenment would not be commonplace is that people identify themselves as a limited concept. Dropping that concept (AKA Enlightenment) appears to look like annihilation of the one that would want it. And that doesn't make any sense! It can seem incredibly threatening. In fact, in some ways it's amazing that anyone would even consider dropping that concept considering what it appears to mean! That's true. In fact it was watching the struggles of people who've been led to dabble in various New Age-ish and occult practices without understanding (or being told, of course) where these practices lead that motivated me to start blogging. I'm sick of seeing spirituality sold by charlatans and the simply clueless alike as a pleasant way to relax and a great substitute for therapy. It should be sold as a great way to massively disrupt your life while confronting fears way deeper than whatever it was that you had previously thought was your deepest fear. But then, there's not much of a market for that. Of course, those fears are not insurmountable.There is one force, in the service of which even criminals will willingly sacrifice their lives, and that force is love. Then, of course, there are people who aren't even aware enough to want to be aware (the majority, perhaps). Bodhisattva vows, last I checked, make no reference to forcibly dragging that last blade of grass into nirvana against its will  But then there are those who know enough to want awareness, and who have a great deal of (for lack of a better phrase) spiritual courage, and who put a fierce amount of effort into it, and they are not enlightened. I don't feel qualified to answer that question. It's a big one that demands more than one answer, and a comprehensive answer would require knowing and truly understanding each of the 107 billion humans who've ever walked this earth, minus whatever unknown percentage were enlightened. I do know one reason why this happens is because some people's minds play tricks on them. The mind takes perfectly good advice pointing to the truth, and twists it into its counterfeit. So the individual thinks they are doing the right thing, but in fact they're just pouring a tremendous amount of energy into being stuck in place. It's difficult to know what to say to people when one can see that that's exactly what they're doing, given that anything that one says can and will be used by the person against themselves. I suspect the only good advice at that point is to forget about enlightenment. Go do something else, preferably something worthwhile for others. Let enlightenment arrive like a surprise party. |
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Jul 8, 2009 7:46:08 GMT -5
it was watching the struggles of people who've been led to dabble in various New Age-ish and occult practices without understanding (or being told, of course) where these practices lead that motivated me to start blogging. That makes it sound quite sinister. In what way were they struggling? Where do these practices lead? I'm sick of seeing spirituality sold by charlatans and the simply clueless alike as a pleasant way to relax and a great substitute for therapy. It should be sold as a great way to massively disrupt your life while confronting fears way deeper than whatever it was that you had previously thought was your deepest fear. Ahh, you want to change the world then? Why are people selling Spirituality Lite tm making you sick? Are they really harming anyone (I mean, relative to international arms sales for example)? As I see it, all religions are intended to enforce conformity and 'good' behaviour. In my thinking today (in the shower to be specific, where all my best thinking gets done), the 'Enlightenment' offered by Buddism (with associated adherance to the rules and respect for the hierarchy) seems like just the same deal as the Christians get with Heaven. Everyone is selling "do as I say and you'll get X or avoid Y". I can't seen anything sold as being 'massively disruptive' gaining popular appeal. But then the work we're doing doesn't need to be 'sold' at all, does it? |
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on Jul 8, 2009 10:47:32 GMT -5
Hey HCS, I'm sick of seeing spirituality sold by charlatans and the simply clueless alike as a pleasant way to relax and a great substitute for therapy. It should be sold as a great way to massively disrupt your life while confronting fears way deeper than whatever it was that you had previously thought was your deepest fear. But then, there's not much of a market for that. Hehe. You sound like Jed McKenna. Well, you've gotta recognize that the new agey stuff really does help make people feel a little better for a moment, it just isn't going to produce Enlightenment. That, as you point out, is something else. The reason I think they get confused is because the knowingness that is Enlightenment tends to lead to a relaxation of the personality, which can have accidental side effects of bliss overwhelm sometimes and mystical experiences and so forth. But thinking that is the point of Enlightenment is then clearly missing the point. That's kind of like someone who has never had a strawberry wanting to have one for the joy of throwing the stem away at the end. Nothing wrong with that, but it would be hard to say that's the point of the strawberry if you really understand what a strawberry was (and it's deliciousness and such - hopefully that analogy is not overly silly). Yes, but it doesn't say you can't. You make a good point though, as Enlightenment sinks in, so does everyone else's Enlightenment. So, whether they realize it or not, you do, and can appreciate it without them having to do anything specific. For me, as thinks sink in more and more, there seems to be more appreciation of people, even with their weirdness, and there's less of a need for them to "get it." Paradoxically, there is more joy in helping people (including myself) "get it" more and more. That kind of growth opening is amazing, whether it's me doing it, or someone else. Doesn't matter.... Yes, but they will be. If they really want it enough. That is the only thing required ultimately - an intense, searing desire - as one will find whatever is required based on that genuine desire. When that desire comes up, life seems to provide a lot of support. That's been my experience anyway.... Yes, but that comes from not being honest with oneself, and not genuinely wanting Enlightenment. Most people don't really want Enlightenment, even if they say they do. And so they will not get it for simply that reason. If they DO genuinely want it, then it is assured, even if it takes a little time for them to stop kicking and flailing about and just let themselves drown already.... Well I think there are a lot of ideas that people have that can be unwound with the openness to put their attention there. If they don't have that, if they can't be innocent with that, then obviously they don't care enough to really get it. After all, letting all points be expressed, and then really feeling their resonance or lack of resonance cannot stear people wrong, but only if they get out of their own way, and don't start ballooning off into what they "think it means." Just going with the feeling. That's the biggest thing. Of course, those who can do that comfortably are usually already there. So it's more a process of undoing resistance, need to think, lack of innocence, etc. so that people can see what is already in front of their noses.... |
|
But you are welcome. As I see it, this is not a nook, this is the path.
