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Post by Peter on Apr 22, 2009 7:07:54 GMT -5
Here's a question that speaks to where I am at the moment:
What is not spiritual?
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Post by keepsearching on Apr 22, 2009 7:43:21 GMT -5
Perhaps more interesting questions...
Who is asking this question? What is saying "this is spiritual" -- "this is not spiritual"?
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Post by Peter on Apr 22, 2009 8:19:20 GMT -5
The same thing that comes to work, sits in front of a monitor for 7.5 hours a day pondering the meaning of it all, earns money, goes home, cooks dinner and changes nappies. It may not be the same thing that it was yesterday, but it's friends would probably still recognise it.
Nothing is not spiritual.
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Post by souley on Apr 22, 2009 14:20:25 GMT -5
What has really struck me as I develop, is how extremely amazing the world is. I mean, no one has any clue what so ever what the world is. The human mind and conditioning makes it so that you don't really ask these questions.. you can't really see it because you are so used to the fact. Media makes it like science "almost got all the answers". But there really is nothing quite like the fact that things even exist. Anyone who knows more about anything, also knows that they know less of the totality. It is always interesting to see some problem or some other issue in the light of this fact, it is like infinity compared to anything else.
I'm not sure what this had to do with this thread.. it just relates to "pondering the meaning of it all". And it seems for me that anything can be spiritual in relation to this, because everything is this.
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Post by Peter on Apr 23, 2009 14:35:00 GMT -5
Yup, that's how I see it Souley, everything is this.
Had a great flying dream last night that I was walking along a country lane with this amazing classical music playing and it lifted me up in above the fields and the music was the wind which carried me along... peak dream experience.
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fear
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Posts: 128
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Post by fear on Apr 23, 2009 18:33:21 GMT -5
Ok here is what is not spiritual, the past, the future and beliefs. These are things that do not exist so how can they be spritual?
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Post by Peter on Apr 24, 2009 4:20:14 GMT -5
God does not exist, so how can that be spritual?  Surely beliefs obviously exist. Or rather, they're as real as we are. Why do you think all those Churches get built - or do they not exist either? Had a dream last night that I was shot in the head by a Nazi in a helicopter while protecting my baby daughter, so it's not all floating on the classical music wind. |
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fear
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Post by fear on Apr 24, 2009 12:58:34 GMT -5
Ok Peter you got me there but there are two sides to the coin. I was pointing to the fact that our beliefs are false but the belief itself is there however false it may be.
Do the churches exist? Or are they just buildings with beliefs that they are churches. What is a church besides a label and a few symbols?
About your dream, is there any reason why a nazi would be in it? Have you been reading about or do you have fear of nazi's?
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Post by Peter on Apr 28, 2009 3:25:52 GMT -5
Morning Fear! I was pointing to the fact that our beliefs are false but the belief itself is there however false it may be. Are all our beliefs false? Some of them might be true. You, for example (if I've picked you up right) have a belief that the reality we experience is an illusion. That is also a belief, with the same lack of proof as any other. Do the churches exist? Or are they just buildings with beliefs that they are churches. What is a church besides a label and a few symbols? Well 'building' is also a label. We're into the definition of consensual reality here. A church is a church because 'we' agree it as such. For the same reason the pile of wood in front of me is magically transformed into a 'table'. About your dream, is there any reason why a nazi would be in it? Have you been reading about or do you have fear of nazi's? Not so much a fear of Nazi's per se, but I think they represent oppressive fascist government which I very much do have a fear of. |
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Post by lightmystic on Apr 28, 2009 10:49:38 GMT -5
Just for fun, I want to point out that the statement "all beliefs are false" is actually something that can be relied upon, but only if it's followed. "All beliefs are false" is, itself a belief. The conclusion that everything is an illusion or not real in some way is, itself, a belief. The concept of no-self is simply another concept pointing to something else... So, that is why your church point is well taken from this side, and is seen not to be a contradiction with the fear's statement that all beliefs are false. Because even that is, itself, a belief...  Are all our beliefs false? Some of them might be true. You, for example (if I've picked you up right) have a belief that the reality we experience is an illusion. That is also a belief, with the same lack of proof as any other. Well 'building' is also a label. We're into the definition of consensual reality here. A church is a church because 'we' agree it as such. For the same reason the pile of wood in front of me is magically transformed into a 'table'. |
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Post by Peter on Apr 29, 2009 4:13:15 GMT -5
Morning LightMystic. I'm having problems viewing "Recent Messages" using Internet Explorer today (both IE6 and IE8), the screen keeps refreshing. It's working fine in FireFox. Just for fun, I want to point out that the statement 'all beliefs are false' is actually something that can be relied upon Can be relied upon for what? Cheers, Peter |
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Post by lightmystic on Apr 29, 2009 10:31:43 GMT -5
Can be relied upon to point you in the right direction. Because ALL beliefs are false. The belief that all beliefs are false is included in that. But then that suggests that some beliefs could be true, but of course that's not it either because all beliefs are false. It creates a nice little paradox that seems to address the way the world works... Morning LightMystic. I'm having problems viewing "Recent Messages" using Internet Explorer today (both IE6 and IE8), the screen keeps refreshing. It's working fine in FireFox. Just for fun, I want to point out that the statement 'all beliefs are false' is actually something that can be relied upon Can be relied upon for what? Cheers, Peter |
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fear
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Post by fear on Apr 30, 2009 1:32:39 GMT -5
Yes I agree that, A BELIEF, is just that, a belief, but the fact the you believe in something is truth. A lot of people believe that God will save them when they die. That belief is real, not the outcome but the simple energy put toward the belief. That energy invested in the belief is real, no?
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Post by lightmystic on Apr 30, 2009 14:00:17 GMT -5
Um.... I'm confused. Can you explain what you mean? Yes I agree that, A BELIEF, is just that, a belief, but the fact the you believe in something is truth. A lot of people believe that God will save them when they die. That belief is real, not the outcome but the simple energy put toward the belief. That energy invested in the belief is real, no? |
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misc
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Post by misc on May 7, 2009 0:49:46 GMT -5
Morning LightMystic. I'm having problems viewing "Recent Messages" using Internet Explorer today (both IE6 and IE8), the screen keeps refreshing. It's working fine in FireFox. Just for fun, I want to point out that the statement 'all beliefs are false' is actually something that can be relied upon Can be relied upon for what? Cheers, Peter I think that he means that by dismissing all beliefs, you are only left with the truth. What can be left once all the false is seen as false? You just be, but I don't think it is practical to say all beliefs are false, although it does point we still get caught up in thought nonetheless. All this talk of things and talking is all part of it, really we have no say in our progress except being serious about it, even that may not be real. Everything is ordained in the sense that when we are ready Truth will come. So even this paragraph is false yet part of the evolution of consciousness. It is very hard to explain but, the point is is that the pointer of beliefs being false IS to be not argued and to be argued. All quite philosophical and paradoxical, but then again when I glimpsed the truth I saw that everything would seem paradoxical to the mind, but it is understood when the mind is empty. Maybe even better than saying all beliefs are false, all thoughts are false. Then we just ARE , even if its for mere moments at least in those mere moments the remembering of thoughts being false moves you back into the presence that you are. Make sense? |
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