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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 17:05:49 GMT -5
It may not be in Reality, but it is in our reality. Same as assumption, objectification, negative emotion. All in your head. In your assumptions/conclusions about 'reality'. Its in my world view/assumptions about what it means to be human at this time. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 22, 2012 17:12:13 GMT -5
What do I need to do to fix that sly old dogness? First off, you would have to want to change your ways. Akchooly, first I would have to be the giraffe you're seeing, and then we could figure out what shade of lipstick would look best. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 17:14:27 GMT -5
First off, you would have to want to change your ways. Akchooly, first I would have to be the giraffe you're seeing, and then we could figure out what shade of lipstick would look best. You are the one who asked. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 22, 2012 17:14:33 GMT -5
Right, and you project that onto everyone else and believe your thoughts about it. But, wait, is this not also a projection? If not, then what is it? You're not talking about the weather, here.  It's the truth, of course. ;D |
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Post by silence on Feb 22, 2012 17:15:24 GMT -5
Yes, I realize that you perceive that I'm looking for trouble and out to attack you. I'm also saying that's your perception and not fact. I'm pointing directly to the fact that you do not know what anyone else is actually experiencing. There is no suffering from the experience of contrast here either. Making a conclusion pyramid doesn't make it any more valid. Think of me as the worst person in the world if that helps you get past that comment you've been holding on to. Trying to prove that my intentions are questionable based on a past comment doesn't suddenly change what's being said. I havent said its a fact and I agree that I dont know for certain what anyone else is experiencing. Its not really the point though, and regardless of that not knowing for certain, I feel it is appropriate to suggest that you are suffering in this conversation and are fighting a war. I dont think of you as the worst person in the world (nice projection by you there) and although I think you have been looking for trouble, I dont think your intentions are 'questionable' as such, You seem like an decent guy with a fairly open heart, but you have some delusions of grandeur, and a poor definition of suffering. Are you a meat eater out of interest? It IS actually the point. One that you seem incredibly reluctant to go anywhere near. It would mean that your imagination doesn't have as much (or any) authority as you think it does. The fact that you see yourself in a war and suffering has absolutely no bearing on my experience. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 22, 2012 17:16:35 GMT -5
But, wait, is this not also a projection? If not, then what is it? Exactly. We all do it. Projection is unconscious, and requires self deception. Your idea that everyone is unconscious is a projection. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 17:18:15 GMT -5
I havent said its a fact and I agree that I dont know for certain what anyone else is experiencing. Its not really the point though, and regardless of that not knowing for certain, I feel it is appropriate to suggest that you are suffering in this conversation and are fighting a war. I dont think of you as the worst person in the world (nice projection by you there) and although I think you have been looking for trouble, I dont think your intentions are 'questionable' as such, You seem like an decent guy with a fairly open heart, but you have some delusions of grandeur, and a poor definition of suffering. Are you a meat eater out of interest? It IS actually the point. One that you seem incredibly reluctant to go anywhere near. It would mean that your imagination doesn't have as much (or any) authority as you think it does. The fact that you see yourself in a war and suffering has absolutely no bearing on my experience. Except you are arguing with me here (and projecting a heap) and therefore there is an intellectual spiritual ego war going on that we are both participants of. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 22, 2012 17:21:06 GMT -5
You couldn't swallow meat because you felt guilty. Don't turn it into some divine body alignment with truth. If life was threatened by death, nothing would ever die. Maybe you've noticed everything dies. Nothing opposes life. Life is also functional such it doesn't aimlessly walk off cliffs and forget to feed itself. That would be rather messy. Stop projecting your fear of death onto life and you'll see life doesn't care if you eat a cow. You're not even connected enough to life to see that most of it isn't suffering as you do. This is a major clue to the reason for your own suffering. Lots of projecting going on there.... Its ridiculous to suggest that I couldnt swallow meat because I felt guilty, because I was actually trying to swallow it initially. These days this bodymind system would not even physically raise a fork of meat to the mouth. It would freeze. There is no inclinaton to try. Yes, things die, but there is still a fight of flight response. Animals fight to survive. They compete to survive. God may not 'care' if we eat an animal or not, but its not the point. Enjoy your steak tonight. You imply that I would/should feel guilty about eating a stake tonight, and yet you say it's ridiculous to suggest that you would feel that way. You're getting sleepier by the moment, Andrew. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 17:21:06 GMT -5
Projection is unconscious, and requires self deception. Your idea that everyone is unconscious is a projection. Has it escaped your notice that you are projecting a hell of a lot? Yes, projection is unconscious by definition but as humans we project. In a subtle way, every time we speak we project. What does that tell you about what it means to be human? Humans ARE unconscious. Every time I say...'I am Andrew, or I am a man, or I am awareness' I am experiencing unconsciousness. To experience an I-thought is to be unconscious. |
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Post by silence on Feb 22, 2012 17:21:54 GMT -5
I sense a theory percolating? Me too. I'm guessing the idea is that the reason Silence and Enigma always go to war and project delusionally is because of the hormones in meat, and if we would only become good vegetarians our suffering would decrease dramatically. ;D Sounds reasonable ;D. The vampire thing didn't really catch so now the playing field must be 'evened' with asserting how more evolved or moral or aligned with truth being a vegetarian is. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 22, 2012 17:23:39 GMT -5
The reason you don't worry about your delusions anymore is because you've found a way to dismiss them by making them meaningless. Projection, illusion, resistance, suffering, true/false, all meaningless terms that apply to everything and everyone, and so can be ignored. Except, as I said, there are occasions when I do look at a specific projection, if that seems like the most intelligent and appropriate thing to do. Why would unconscious mind ever see that as an intelligent appropriate thing to do unless it was just a game of pretending to look? |
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Post by silence on Feb 22, 2012 17:25:00 GMT -5
It IS actually the point. One that you seem incredibly reluctant to go anywhere near. It would mean that your imagination doesn't have as much (or any) authority as you think it does. The fact that you see yourself in a war and suffering has absolutely no bearing on my experience. Except you are arguing with me here (and projecting a heap) and therefore there is an intellectual spiritual ego war going on that we are both participants of. I'm on a forum having a conversation. The rest is your imagination. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 22, 2012 17:25:23 GMT -5
Trusting the unconscious mind isn't a good way to go. But trusting the intelligence of the whole bodymind system is. But then I am not really interested in 'being conscious', because that requires 'one' to be conscious. And so we've made the idea of becoming conscious meaningless too, so you never have to do that. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 17:29:10 GMT -5
Lots of projecting going on there.... Its ridiculous to suggest that I couldnt swallow meat because I felt guilty, because I was actually trying to swallow it initially. These days this bodymind system would not even physically raise a fork of meat to the mouth. It would freeze. There is no inclinaton to try. Yes, things die, but there is still a fight of flight response. Animals fight to survive. They compete to survive. God may not 'care' if we eat an animal or not, but its not the point. Enjoy your steak tonight. You imply that I would/should feel guilty about eating a stake tonight, and yet you say it's ridiculous to suggest that you would feel that way. You're getting sleepier by the moment, Andrew. Well, you know what, these days, if I ate meat - if I COULD eat meat - then I might feel guilty because I am far more connected and sensitive than I used to be. If I hit someone I might feel guilty about that too! In the old days, there was no sense of guilt, there was just a sense of physically not being able to swallow. As we become more enlightened, we become more sensitive. In a sense there is a raising of standards. There is a violence to eating meat that just does not sit well with me. So yes, maybe it would be healthy if you DID feel a bit guilty. Enjoy your steak. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 17:29:41 GMT -5
Me too. I'm guessing the idea is that the reason Silence and Enigma always go to war and project delusionally is because of the hormones in meat, and if we would only become good vegetarians our suffering would decrease dramatically. ;D Sounds reasonable ;D. The vampire thing didn't really catch so now the playing field must be 'evened' with asserting how more evolved or moral or aligned with truth being a vegetarian is. Do you eat meat? |
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