lisa
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Posts: 22
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Post by lisa on Feb 7, 2012 20:06:26 GMT -5
Thank you very much once again, zendancer, for taking the time to write out such a lengthy and thorough reply. Perfect.
Over the years, I have had occasional moments of clarity where most of the things you list became clear to me, too, but the clarity has never stayed. The experiences turn into memories and ideas, and ideas can become doubted even if memory provides recall of the strength of the realization. ... It's excellent to be reminded of these things.
Maybe I'll have my own full-on woo-woo experience someday. Maybe not. Right now, I'm perfectly ok with either. That might change in a couple days, haha, but for now it's what is.
I had a friend years ago whose basic spiritual assertion was 'you can't get it wrong.' What an incredible amount of pressure and stress that maxim relieves.
"What must I be doing this moment?" ... I genuinely have no idea. Ahaha. I have neither job nor family to care for. I spend my days online. Update: I think I get it. "What must I be doing this moment?" Being exactly where I am, doing exactly what I'm doing.
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Post by kate on Feb 7, 2012 20:23:35 GMT -5
Thank you -so much,- zendancer. Your answer is exactly the real-world pragmatic approach I'd hoped for. I've done a little of that myself (particularly the walking and just being aware of the world), and I will apply it more, now. BTW I admit I'm quite curious what those seven questions you had answered were, and what the answers were. Is it too forward if I ask? Lisa, there is also a thread around here somewhere called "Real World Advice" or something along those lines. It has quite a few longer posts from zendancer with some excellent real world advice. I have tried to find it but can't - maybe someone else can provide a link? Perhaps I have the thread name wrong. |
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lisa
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by lisa on Feb 7, 2012 20:33:20 GMT -5
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Post by kate on Feb 7, 2012 20:42:15 GMT -5
No, it's not that one. It's an older one. I can't remember who created it (it wasn't zendancer) but there were two or three longer posts from zendancer in the thread that were really great. I'll have another look and see if I can find it.
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Post by kate on Feb 7, 2012 20:47:29 GMT -5
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Post by enigma on Feb 7, 2012 21:37:02 GMT -5
Thank you very much once again, zendancer, for taking the time to write out such a lengthy and thorough reply. Perfect. Over the years, I have had occasional moments of clarity where most of the things you list became clear to me, too, but the clarity has never stayed. The experiences turn into memories and ideas, and ideas can become doubted even if memory provides recall of the strength of the realization. ... It's excellent to be reminded of these things. Maybe I'll have my own full-on woo-woo experience someday. Maybe not. Right now, I'm perfectly ok with either. That might change in a couple days, haha, but for now it's what is. The problem with woo woo experiences is exactly what you describe; they become memories rather than realizations. A realization that is not happening now, is a memory. Hencely, if you want to know, you have to look now, see now, and know now. Everything but now is an illusion of mind, and is NOT true. |
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Post by mamza on Feb 7, 2012 22:51:05 GMT -5
Thread appreciated.
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Post by mamza on Feb 7, 2012 22:53:58 GMT -5
By the way, what ZD is talking about he often calls attending the actual (ATA), and it is 100% effective if interest is sustained.
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lisa
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by lisa on Feb 8, 2012 0:19:42 GMT -5
-Thank you- for taking the time to dig that up for me. That is indeed a gorgeous thread. It raised a couple questions, which I'll ask here (I didn't want to necro that thread.) |
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lisa
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Posts: 22
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Post by lisa on Feb 8, 2012 0:29:28 GMT -5
zendancer, the thread Kate linked brought up a question. In that thread, you say "Just do what the body knows must be done this moment. Do it 100% without reflection." and "Ask yourself, “What must I be doing right this moment?” You body knows, so listen to it." I have a tendency to be quite a spendthrift. It's something I've been battling for years, and I've got large collections of various things to show for it. The impulse/urge to buy/spend can be -strong-, and I am not sure I can distinguish between what the body knows it wants to do, and the urge to buy yet another American Girl doll. ... Edit to add: One other question arises from this statement: "Trust the universe 100%. The more you trust it, the more you will realize it can be trusted to give you everything." I don't understand this. I think this image will explain what I mean better than I can do in words; I've tried to write what I mean a few times now, and it comes out sounding a little twee/trite each time I do, so better to just let pictures show instead. Warning, it's a bit upsetting, which is why I am linking it instead of posting it. s16.photobucket.com/albums/b23/Silverpony/?action=view¤t=thankyoujesus.jpg |
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Post by mamza on Feb 8, 2012 0:42:04 GMT -5
Lisa, if you're not sure you can distinguish between the two, just take a second to notice what you're doing. If you're halfway through writing a check, that's what you must be doing, right? Because if it weren't what you must be doing, you wouldn't be doing it. This all seemed really mystical and convoluted to me at first, but after taking the time to stop, look, listen, and breathe, it all becomes as simple as breathing itself.
The easiest way to break the habit of spending money is to pay attention to how much money you're spending. Whenever there's a problem, pay attention to it and sooner or later it will resolve itself through some means or another.
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Post by enigma on Feb 8, 2012 1:38:06 GMT -5
The easiest way to break the habit of spending money is to pay attention to how much money you're spending. Whenever there's a problem, pay attention to it and sooner or later it will resolve itself through some means or another. Yuppers. As I experience it, that's the easiest way to break any habit. Compulsively doing things we don't want to do is only possible if we can remain partly unconscious. To be fully conscious of what we're doing, along with the fact that we don't want to do it, collapses that game completely. We either do or don't do, but there is no resistance, argument or regret. Responsibility is fully taken. |
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Post by zendancer on Feb 8, 2012 4:12:17 GMT -5
Thank you very much once again, zendancer, for taking the time to write out such a lengthy and thorough reply. Perfect. Over the years, I have had occasional moments of clarity where most of the things you list became clear to me, too, but the clarity has never stayed. The experiences turn into memories and ideas, and ideas can become doubted even if memory provides recall of the strength of the realization. ... It's excellent to be reminded of these things. Maybe I'll have my own full-on woo-woo experience someday. Maybe not. Right now, I'm perfectly ok with either. That might change in a couple days, haha, but for now it's what is. The problem with woo woo experiences is exactly what you describe; they become memories rather than realizations. A realization that is not happening now, is a memory. Hencely, if you want to know, you have to look now, see now, and know now. Everything but now is an illusion of mind, and is NOT true. Yes, this is correct. Woo woo experiences are not necessary for realization. Waiting for anything to happen in the future takes attention away from what is happening now, and now is the only thing of importance. I don't denigrate such experiences if they happen, because they can often precipitate, or be accompanied by, numerous realizations. However, for most people they are both a blessing and a curse at the same time. Yes, they can instantly reveal oneness, and remove the fear of death forever, but they then become memories and usually lead to various false conclusions. Most often, they leave the individual looking for more such experiences in the future, and thereby cause them to overlook what is happening now. A few people (the Buddha, Tolle? etc) have woo woo experiences so massive that they lead to full awakening, but this is extremely rare. The exception rather than the rule. Again, to hope for such an experience takes attention away from what is already here and now. Focusing on THIS--on "what is"-- is the name of the game. One of the best books that describes what life looks like when there is full acceptance of what is happening now is Byron Katie's book, "A Thousand Faces of Joy." You might want to check that out if you haven't already read it. Mamza and Enigma have already answered your other question. There is not a "Bad Lisa" who compulsively buys stuff and a "Good Lisa" who doesn't want to do it because there is only one body/mind. Bring consciousness to what is happening, and the split-mind illusion will resolve. The universe manifests however it manifests, and however it manifests is a mystery. Simply watch. I can relate to the question about money, finance, and buying stuff, but more about that issue later. Ditto on the photo. |
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Post by exactamente on Feb 8, 2012 8:47:06 GMT -5
Focusing on THIS--on "what is"-- is the name of the game. And effortless is how it is played. |
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Post by nobodyishome on Feb 8, 2012 11:52:10 GMT -5
The problem with woo woo experiences is exactly what you describe; they become memories rather than realizations. A realization that is not happening now, is a memory. Hencely, if you want to know, you have to look now, see now, and know now. Everything but now is an illusion of mind, and is NOT true. Yes, this is correct. Woo woo experiences are not necessary for realization. Waiting for anything to happen in the future takes attention away from what is happening now, and now is the only thing of importance. I don't denigrate such experiences if they happen, because they can often precipitate, or be accompanied by, numerous realizations. However, for most people they are both a blessing and a curse at the same time. Yes, they can instantly reveal oneness, and remove the fear of death forever, but they then become memories and usually lead to various false conclusions. Most often, they leave the individual looking for more such experiences in the future, and thereby cause them to overlook what is happening now. A few people (the Buddha, Tolle? etc) have woo woo experiences so massive that they lead to full awakening, but this is extremely rare. The exception rather than the rule. Again, to hope for such an experience takes attention away from what is already here and now. Focusing on THIS--on "what is"-- is the name of the game. One of the best books that describes what life looks like when there is full acceptance of what is happening now is Byron Katie's book, "A Thousand Faces of Joy." You might want to check that out if you haven't already read it. Mamza and Enigma have already answered your other question. There is not a "Bad Lisa" who compulsively buys stuff and a "Good Lisa" who doesn't want to do it because there is only one body/mind. Bring consciousness to what is happening, and the split-mind illusion will resolve. The universe manifests however it manifests, and however it manifests is a mystery. Simply watch. I can relate to the question about money, finance, and buying stuff, but more about that issue later. Ditto on the photo.
A Thousand names of Joy Byron Katie
Thanks
NBisH |
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