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Post by enigma on Feb 6, 2012 10:59:21 GMT -5
What I mean by standing on the river bank has nothing to do with creating. It has a lot to do with noticing, though. Yes, I agree. When we are standing on the bank it even SEEMS as if creation is something happening in the distance. Standing on the bank, as I use it, just means being consciously aware; a position of alert attention. It doesn't make it seem like creation is happening in the distance. If it's a mental position designed to escape, I guess it could. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 6, 2012 11:11:31 GMT -5
I do agree that these things are what we essentially are, but I would say that as ego patterns are released, we experience more OF what we are (i.e. love, joy, peace etc). We actually cannot NOT experience what we essentially are at least a tiny bit, but as those fearful ego patterns are released, we experience the good stuff more directly, more purely, and more consistently. So we are experiential beings because we are God experiencing itself. That we experience what We are just doesn't cut it for me. We simply Are. THIS is One. There is no experiencer, to me, and nothing other than Itself, so what is to experience? If you want to experience those aspects of awareness (i.e., Love, Joy, Peace, etc.), seems that all one has to do (though it's probably an oversimplification), is BE What One IS. That's my take, anyway. I find it a little odd that you dont think you are experiencing or that experiencing is happening. And then you say that we CAN experience those aspects of awareness. So Im a bit confused as to what you are saying. I agree though that 'being what one is' is the way to experience love, peace and joy (what we essentially are) though I would say that 'being what one is' is not straightforward because of the egoic conditioned patterns. Some people talk of this as a process of 'becoming what we are' or 'becoming the Self'...and that resonates with me. |
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Post by zendancer on Feb 6, 2012 11:17:15 GMT -5
I do agree that these things are what we essentially are, but I would say that as ego patterns are released, we experience more OF what we are (i.e. love, joy, peace etc). We actually cannot NOT experience what we essentially are at least a tiny bit, but as those fearful ego patterns are released, we experience the good stuff more directly, more purely, and more consistently. So we are experiential beings because we are God experiencing itself. That we experience what We are just doesn't cut it for me. We simply Are. THIS is One. There is no experiencer, to me, and nothing other than Itself, so what is to experience? If you want to experience those aspects of awareness (i.e., Love, Joy, Peace, etc.), seems that all one has to do (though it's probably an oversimplification), is BE What One IS. That's my take, anyway. Yep, that sums it up pretty well. Any effort to experience good stuff versus bad stuff involves a headtrip. "Co-creation" is more of the same. There are not two here. "Abundance theology?" Ditto. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 6, 2012 11:18:40 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. When we are standing on the bank it even SEEMS as if creation is something happening in the distance. Standing on the bank, as I use it, just means being consciously aware; a position of alert attention. It doesn't make it seem like creation is happening in the distance. If it's a mental position designed to escape, I guess it could. Well, I agree that a position of alert attention doesnt make it seem like creation is happening in the distance. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 6, 2012 11:23:10 GMT -5
That we experience what We are just doesn't cut it for me. We simply Are. THIS is One. There is no experiencer, to me, and nothing other than Itself, so what is to experience? If you want to experience those aspects of awareness (i.e., Love, Joy, Peace, etc.), seems that all one has to do (though it's probably an oversimplification), is BE What One IS. That's my take, anyway. Yep, that sums it up pretty well. Any effort to experience good stuff versus bad stuff involves a headtrip. "Co-creation" is more of the same. There are not two here. "Abundance theology?" Ditto. We cant help BUT seek to experience good stuff. Every action comes with perceived positive benefit. It just so happens that the enlightened have a habit of experiencing the good stuff more consistently and the reason they are able to do that is because they are not so dependent on the form for their good feelings. Without egoic fear and need, we experience what we are (love, peace and joy) purely, directly and consistently. |
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Post by freddy on Feb 6, 2012 11:33:55 GMT -5
Yep, that sums it up pretty well. Any effort to experience good stuff versus bad stuff involves a headtrip. "Co-creation" is more of the same. There are not two here. "Abundance theology?" Ditto. We cant help BUT seek to experience good stuff. Every action comes with perceived positive benefit. It just so happens that the enlightened have a habit of experiencing the good stuff more consistently and the reason they are able to do that is because they are not so dependent on the form for their good feelings. Without egoic fear and need, we experience what we are (love, peace and joy) purely, directly and consistently. Stop seeking to experience good stuff. Stop seeking enlightenment. Stop seeking to improve the world. Just be done with what is right now in front of you. |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 6, 2012 11:38:12 GMT -5
That we experience what We are just doesn't cut it for me. We simply Are. THIS is One. There is no experiencer, to me, and nothing other than Itself, so what is to experience? If you want to experience those aspects of awareness (i.e., Love, Joy, Peace, etc.), seems that all one has to do (though it's probably an oversimplification), is BE What One IS. That's my take, anyway. I find it a little odd that you dont think you are experiencing or that experiencing is happening. And then you say that we CAN experience those aspects of awareness. So Im a bit confused as to what you are saying. Well, to be sure, the phrase, 'experiencing those aspects of awareness' falls short, since One doesn't experience What One IS. Reminds me of an Adyashanti quote: "which direction do you tell an eyeball to look to experience itself as an eyeball?" 'Realizing' is an infinitely more appropriate term than 'experiencing', I suppose. A phrase comes to mind (I think it's Buddhist): Oneness, God, THIS, is "always being, always becoming." "Egoic conditioned patterns" fall away in light of Being becoming. Maybe it is in the becoming that is that ineffable process of creation? |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 6, 2012 11:43:28 GMT -5
Yep, that sums it up pretty well. Any effort to experience good stuff versus bad stuff involves a headtrip. "Co-creation" is more of the same. There are not two here. "Abundance theology?" Ditto. We cant help BUT seek to experience good stuff. Every action comes with perceived positive benefit. It just so happens that the enlightened have a habit of experiencing the good stuff more consistently and the reason they are able to do that is because they are not so dependent on the form for their good feelings. Without egoic fear and need, we experience what we are (love, peace and joy) purely, directly and consistently. I disagree that 'the enlightened have a habit of experiencing the good stuff more consistently." Tolle mentioned something that still resonates with me--"beyond happiness and unhappiness there is Peace." Regardless of whether an experience appears 'good' or 'bad', Peace abides in an awakened being. And in that Peace, there is no need to seek a 'good' or 'bad' experience. There is no need to seek any experience at all. There is no need to seek anything once one realizes the Peace that one is. |
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Post by zendancer on Feb 6, 2012 11:55:10 GMT -5
Yep, that sums it up pretty well. Any effort to experience good stuff versus bad stuff involves a headtrip. "Co-creation" is more of the same. There are not two here. "Abundance theology?" Ditto. We cant help BUT seek to experience good stuff. Every action comes with perceived positive benefit. It just so happens that the enlightened have a habit of experiencing the good stuff more consistently and the reason they are able to do that is because they are not so dependent on the form for their good feelings. Without egoic fear and need, we experience what we are (love, peace and joy) purely, directly and consistently. Andrew: I understand that you seek to experience good stuff, but some peeps are free from the mediation of thought. To seek anything is a head trip related to ideas about someone who can attain something in the future. For some of us there is only THIS, and THIS is always complete and sufficient. THIS is beyond time, space, causality, and selfhood. FWIW, bodies can act intelligently even in the total absence of thought. No thought is necessary for chopping wood, carrying water, or installing hardwood flooring. LOL. There's nothing wrong with thinking, but it is not necessary. Seeking to experience good stuff is a heavy burden. Fortunately, it's possible to travel far more lightly. Drop a leaf into a moving stream, and watch it for a few moments. Life can be that effortless. The leaf does not seek to get anywhere; it simply goes with the flow. When selfhood evaporates, and the mind is quiescent, life is exactly like being a leaf in a stream. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 6, 2012 12:10:52 GMT -5
I find it a little odd that you dont think you are experiencing or that experiencing is happening. And then you say that we CAN experience those aspects of awareness. So Im a bit confused as to what you are saying. Well, to be sure, the phrase, 'experiencing those aspects of awareness' falls short, since One doesn't experience What One IS. Reminds me of an Adyashanti quote: "which direction do you tell an eyeball to look to experience itself as an eyeball?" 'Realizing' is an infinitely more appropriate term than 'experiencing', I suppose. A phrase comes to mind (I think it's Buddhist): Oneness, God, THIS, is "always being, always becoming." "Egoic conditioned patterns" fall away in light of Being becoming. Maybe it is in the becoming that is that ineffable process of creation? I resonate with that Buddhist quote and the Adya one makes sense to me too. I guess though I probably see 'Realizing' as something that happens as part of experiencing. So I would say that some people experience in a more self-Realized way than others. I think you could be onto something with regard to the last line. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 6, 2012 12:17:24 GMT -5
We cant help BUT seek to experience good stuff. Every action comes with perceived positive benefit. It just so happens that the enlightened have a habit of experiencing the good stuff more consistently and the reason they are able to do that is because they are not so dependent on the form for their good feelings. Without egoic fear and need, we experience what we are (love, peace and joy) purely, directly and consistently. I disagree that 'the enlightened have a habit of experiencing the good stuff more consistently." Tolle mentioned something that still resonates with me--"beyond happiness and unhappiness there is Peace." Regardless of whether an experience appears 'good' or 'bad', Peace abides in an awakened being. And in that Peace, there is no need to seek a 'good' or 'bad' experience. There is no need to seek any experience at all. There is no need to seek anything once one realizes the Peace that one is. To me, peace IS the good stuff. Why would we seek something that isnt good? I would say that the enlightened still seek but its on a moment by moment basis. They turn the tv on. Why? Because they seek to feel bad? I would say its because they seek to feel good. They open the fridge and get some orange juice out because they are thirsty. Why? Because they seek to feel bad? Again, I would say its because they seek to feel good. In this current reality in which the bodymind system experiences both attraction and aversion, there is always going to be seeking happening. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 6, 2012 12:20:31 GMT -5
We cant help BUT seek to experience good stuff. Every action comes with perceived positive benefit. It just so happens that the enlightened have a habit of experiencing the good stuff more consistently and the reason they are able to do that is because they are not so dependent on the form for their good feelings. Without egoic fear and need, we experience what we are (love, peace and joy) purely, directly and consistently. Andrew: I understand that you seek to experience good stuff, but some peeps are free from the mediation of thought. To seek anything is a head trip related to ideas about someone who can attain something in the future. For some of us there is only THIS, and THIS is always complete and sufficient. THIS is beyond time, space, causality, and selfhood. FWIW, bodies can act intelligently even in the total absence of thought. No thought is necessary for chopping wood, carrying water, or installing hardwood flooring. LOL. There's nothing wrong with thinking, but it is not necessary. Seeking to experience good stuff is a heavy burden. Fortunately, it's possible to travel far more lightly. Drop a leaf into a moving stream, and watch it for a few moments. Life can be that effortless. The leaf does not seek to get anywhere; it simply goes with the flow. When selfhood evaporates, and the mind is quiescent, life is exactly like being a leaf in a stream. Why did you write this message? To feel bad? I dont think so. You wrote it because you decided there would be a benefit to writing the message. We are not like a leaf in a stream, we conscious experience saying yes and no. We consciously experience attraction and aversion. A leaf does not. |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 6, 2012 12:27:52 GMT -5
Andrew: I understand that you seek to experience good stuff, but some peeps are free from the mediation of thought. To seek anything is a head trip related to ideas about someone who can attain something in the future. For some of us there is only THIS, and THIS is always complete and sufficient. THIS is beyond time, space, causality, and selfhood. FWIW, bodies can act intelligently even in the total absence of thought. No thought is necessary for chopping wood, carrying water, or installing hardwood flooring. LOL. There's nothing wrong with thinking, but it is not necessary. Seeking to experience good stuff is a heavy burden. Fortunately, it's possible to travel far more lightly. Drop a leaf into a moving stream, and watch it for a few moments. Life can be that effortless. The leaf does not seek to get anywhere; it simply goes with the flow. When selfhood evaporates, and the mind is quiescent, life is exactly like being a leaf in a stream. Why did you write this message? To feel bad? I dont think so. You wrote it because you decided there would be a benefit to writing the message. We are not like a leaf in a stream, we conscious experience saying yes and no. We consciously experience attraction and aversion. A leaf does not. I dunno, Andrew. I've read and heard a lot of folk who have explained that we ARE like the leaf. And, I think, once one realizes that they ARE the leaf, they really don't want to go back to thinking anything otherwise.  |
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Post by andrew on Feb 6, 2012 12:37:17 GMT -5
Why did you write this message? To feel bad? I dont think so. You wrote it because you decided there would be a benefit to writing the message. We are not like a leaf in a stream, we conscious experience saying yes and no. We consciously experience attraction and aversion. A leaf does not. I dunno, Andrew. I've read and heard a lot of folk who have explained that we ARE like the leaf. And, I think, once one realizes that they ARE the leaf, they really don't want to go back to thinking anything otherwise. It can be a nice metaphor, but in reality leaves dont consciously experience decision making, they dont experience intention, they dont experience interests, they dont argue rights and wrongs on internet forums, they dont experience 'this and that'. There are similarities between humans and leaves but there are also differences, some of which are wonderful differences and some perhaps less wonderful. I LOVE the idea of being totally and utterly surrendered to the flow of life in the way the leaf is, and I often talk about that potential (which ironically isnt always appreciated eh E?), but when I look at whats happening now, I see that even enlightened humans are still human and demonstrate basic human characteristics. |
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Post by zendancer on Feb 6, 2012 12:46:51 GMT -5
Why did you write this message? To feel bad? I dont think so. You wrote it because you decided there would be a benefit to writing the message. We are not like a leaf in a stream, we conscious experience saying yes and no. We consciously experience attraction and aversion. A leaf does not. I dunno, Andrew. I've read and heard a lot of folk who have explained that we ARE like the leaf. And, I think, once one realizes that they ARE the leaf, they really don't want to go back to thinking anything otherwise. Bingo! |
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