Hello, and insights/advice?

[lisa]

I spend a lot of my time in fantasies and dreamworlds, though this is gradually getting to be less over time as I can tolerate being lost in the clouds less and less. The big hurdle I'm finding is an unwillingness to be really present. I can do it for periods, when a fresh, new, childlike feeling arises and I'm not 'me' or any of the old reaction patterns that arise, but that doesn't stay long. It's like I'm looking for something and even being totally present isn't enough because it isn't it, whatever it is. I was very neglected and ignored as a baby/child/teen and I am sick. to. goddamn. death. of that story, but that huge hole of aching neediness inside just won't go away no matter how many spiritual practices I throw at it. I sit with it sometimes and am very aware it's not me, it's just a reaction pattern that will die when I die. Somehow even that experiential knowledge doesn't make it stop.

I'm currently in an uncomfortable state that feels like pressure, (don't want to be the headless observer in the present, can't avoid being the headless observer in the present) and something's going to have to -give-.

I am happy to encounter this board, but at the same time I feel like it is way out of my league just yet, so we'll see how things go.

Influential teachers: Tolle, Jed McKenna, Bob Fergeson (just discovered him,) Douglas Harding (ditto,) others.

[Peter]

Hi Lisa, welcome to the board.

Sounds like you've really arrived at a place where you're ready to do The Work and face whatever needs facing.

Have you tried any practices that are like imagining yourself hugging that young Lisa and what you would say to her? I remember I one had an experience when I was like 9 or 10 that someone was cuddling me, and - silly I know - I wonder if that could be me now doing that practice. Then when I think - today - about someone cuddling me, I wonder if it could be me aged 80 or whatever. Well, it's a nice thought.

My sense of the spritual life is that it's a series of very thin lines. One of the major (or perhaps thinnest) is the choice of what we accept in our lives - allow to Be - and what we decide to take a stand against and say OK, that's how it is now and I'm going to work to change it. I think in that case it's important not to be attached to the outcome.

Another thin line is between experiencing emotions - like that pressure you're talking about - and wallowing in them. Personally speaking I've spent so long avoiding mine (and if you've spent a lot of time daydreaming it's possible you have been too) so it's maybe a good practice for me to really sit with uncomfortable feelings - let them into my heart and see if they've got anything to say.

Anyway, good luck.
Peter

Edit: And that's me at 500 posts. Happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me...etc.

[Deleted]

Feb 2, 2012 3:57:12 GMT -5 lisa said:

I am happy to encounter this board, but at the same time I feel like it is way out of my league just yet, so we'll see how things go.

hi lisa, welcome!

anything goes here. represented is a very broad range of commentary. all are welcome.

[joel]

I'm not awakened, yet; thanks for your story, for sharing it. My experience is that if you can find something out of your league, that's where you might get the most catalyst to go deeper. I'm seeking that place now, hoping to find it soon. It may be what it takes to dissove the final fear.

[quinn]

Feb 2, 2012 3:57:12 GMT -5 lisa said:

and I am sick. to. blasted. death. of that story, but that huge hole of aching neediness inside just won't go away no matter how many spiritual practices I throw at it. I sit with it sometimes and am very aware it's not me, it's just a reaction pattern that will die when I die. Somehow even that experiential knowledge doesn't make it stop.

Hi Lisa - glad to meetcha. I'm new here too.

I think it's interesting that you are "very aware it's not me" but also want to "make it stop".

I've experienced depression for most of my life - up and down. And even when it was very clear that Quinn wasn't 'a depressed person', rather depression appeared (and sometimes hung around for a VERY long time)... it still kept coming back. And then, somehow, I realized that that was OK.

It still pops up now and again, but way less intensely and for way shorter periods, and it doesn't seem to matter much.

So if that sense of neediness is not you, why does it need to stop? Just something you might want to look at.

[lisa]

Thank you for your responses. *absorbing them*

Peter: Happy 500 posts to you *singsong* ahaha. Yeah, I've done a lot of just sitting with the discomfort, too. Thank you for your suggestions; I find the visualizing-holding-my-infant-and-baby-self has indeed helped in the past. Somehow I want something -more-, something along the lines of just being -done- with and quit of the whole thing.

maxzprophet: Thank you

joel: That would be very nice. I hope you find yours very soon.

quinn: Yeah, I too have had problems with depression all my life. I roll with it when it occurs, and as with your experience, it's with far less intensity and for much shorter periods these days than it used to be. "Oh, it's you again." *just gets on with life* I don't take depressive periods personally anymore. Winston Churchill had recurring problems with depression, too, and he called it his black dog. I thought the name was splendid, so that's what I call it, too.

"So if that sense of neediness is not you, why does it need to stop? Just something you might want to look at."

It needs to stop because it works less like depression does for me these days and a lot more like a physical wound: a lot more immediate and intimate. We know we are not our bodies, but when physical problems like severe illnesses and major injuries arise, that knowledge, even if experiential, doesn't seem to matter; it recedes, if we are honest, for most of us. I know things are different for the masters.

So I need it to stop, even though I know it's just an experience pattern, so I can get -on- with spiritual matters. As it stands, it's... how do you trust a universe when your experience from earliest infancy onwards is that it was not trustworthy: it didn't give a darn if you existed, (mom wouldn't necessarily remember to feed my brother and I, eg) and would attack you without provocation at any time? (read: father would fly into sudden rages, and you never knew where/when the next attack would come from; not a charming way to grow up)

I don't really give a darn about the details of it, but there's that fundamental deep aching hole in the center of my psyche that's been there ever since I can remember, and I keep knocking against the darn thing in my spiritual efforts.

So many reaction patterns.

[quinn]

It needs to stop because it works less like depression does for me these days and a lot more like a physical wound: a lot more immediate and intimate.

Gotcha. Didn't depression used to be like that? Was for me.

I like the 'black dog' name, too. I'll have to make sure not to give it any food. ;D

[Beingist]

Hi, Lisa,

I was neglected/ignored, too, when I was a kid, but I got over it, somehow.

You mentioned Tolle is an influence. I have been able to get over my stuff doing his pain-body work. I swear by it. Hope it can help you, too.

[lisa]

Quinn: Yes. Exactly right. I hadn't given it real thought since it -has- been many years since depression was that big a thing. And we'll both agree not to feed our black dogs. *laff*

Beingist: Thank you for reminding me about the pain-body stuff. For some reason, I tend to keep forgetting about that aspect of Tolle's teachings even though I've worked it and find it helpful and useful. Thanks again for the reminder, and I am definitely going to apply it.