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Post by Beingist on Jan 20, 2012 0:35:01 GMT -5
Thanks B. I do try to notice the thoughts and feelings but find that I can't always do that until after the event and sometimes noticing it makes me feel worse. Like Angela says; 'why arn't I through with this or something similar'. I can see that I need to adress these beliefs. Yes, noticing it makes you feel worse. Which is why I've mentioned to friends that "enlightenment ain't all it's cracked up to be." Avoiding the pain is at the root of 'resistance'. I can't even begin to describe some of the pain I've gone through, consciously and willingly. But, "no pain, no gain," as they say, and it has provided me with an opportunity for some welcomed growth. Besides, it doesn't last that long. But, and to stress again, awareness is the key (or awareness of awareness, or awareness of itself being awareness, or whatever the going phrase is, these days). Being aware helps to get through it, as it is a realization that it is just the emotions, or the pain-body going through the pain. It isn't really you, or rather, it's not What You are.  |
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Post by andrew on Jan 20, 2012 3:05:07 GMT -5
Im not quite sure that I would use the word 'preferred', but yes, I would say there was an interest in experiencing contrast. If we are on this earth, there is an interest in experiencing contrast. I'm open to whatever it is I'm not understanding about this, at least most of the time, but what I see clearly is experience itself 'erupting' out of nothingness as creation (and perception) itself, and it is nothing but imagination. It has no foundation outside of that, and so every experience is literally based on the imagining of it's opposite. Hencely, I see dualistic experience as inherent in ALL experiencing, and therefore unavoidable in any reality. I agree up to the point where you said 'outside of that'. I would say that every experience is based on there being a contrast. Currently though, because of the way our mind works, we imagine this contrast to be oppositional in nature but its not. The contrast is born out of what we could call 'love', the foundation is love and there is no opposite of 'love', even though it seems to us like there is. In this sense, love is all there is, and anything else is illusion. As human beings we basically live in delusion, and that includes the enlightened, though their degree of delusion is less. Therefore it is entirely possible to experience a reality in which the experience is one of unconditional love, but it would be a reality in which we no longer imagine opposites, a reality in which there is only resonance, only harmony, only 'yes', and only flow. The experience would still be based in contrast, but there would be no CONSCIOUS recognition or awareness of contrast because there would be no opposites imagined. There would be no 'this or that', no deliberation, no contemplation, no choosing......just expression. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 20, 2012 3:20:23 GMT -5
ATA is not what most people would call "normal," but then, you said that most people think you're sort of out to lunch already. LOL. This forum may be the only place where lots of other peeps are similarly out to lunch. Definately Not normal for me. Ok here's a strange question, but I figured I've embarassed myself and been honest enough on this forum not to care anymore, here goes: I've read before, the reason we need to sleep is to give our soul's a rest, to go back to our true nature. Well smthing I've noticed is that when I get a good night's sleep (rare with my little ones) I wake up very much identified with this personality and feeling 'down'. Now I know what there is to know, stay with the observer and know that it's not me. Am trying but My mind is telling me stories and I feel rubbish. Just as I think I've come far, it's almost like- 'ha, you thought you were awakening? '. It's so fruatrating. Ok this probably has nothing to do with the contents of the thread but I think being on the other side of the world, I miss all the juicy chats until I wake up and it's too late. I just feel that when I stop to look am ok but then just get sucked back into this sort of 'depression'. Andrew, I've got to say I resonate with a lot of what you say. There's more to this than we know. Jesus may have 'accepted his fate, however, all the compassion, love, peace and healing he taught is something I believe we should aspire to. There's no way his message was simply to accept this, I refuse to accept that currently (haha). His message was also one of love for yourself and others. I think I read that you're going to give up the forum? (Apologies if that's wrong). Well I hope you don't. I think you, I and others asking the questions and offering differences in opinion is what makes this forum. Someone else posted about why are we all here on this forum? Well I am learning so much on here personally and I won't give up until I'm there now. There are some brilliant teachers on here, who I am v grateful for (zd, Enigma, exact, silence to name a few). Hi esponja, thanks. My understanding is also that the soul leaves the body during deep sleep. If your soul has left for a long time in deep sleep, there may be a slight heaviness afterwards. I wouldnt worry about it too much. There are times when I experience some heaviness and if I told stories about it I would probably be depressed too. In a way, I think this process isnt about ONLY experiencing a light and easy energy, its more about becoming an effective surfer of energies i.e. to allow the different energies to come and go without too much concern or worry. One of the good things about feeling a bit heavy is that different options become available to me. So I might think about going for a walk in the park (which isnt really something I would think about doing if I am experiencing a light energy). So in a way I just ride the heaviness and find the gift in it, and it passes and a new energy comes along. I guess what Im saying is maybe, dont take it too seriously. |
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Post by exactamente on Jan 20, 2012 3:29:03 GMT -5
ATA is not what most people would call "normal," but then, you said that most people think you're sort of out to lunch already. LOL. This forum may be the only place where lots of other peeps are similarly out to lunch. Definately Not normal for me. Ok here's a strange question, but I figured I've embarassed myself and been honest enough on this forum not to care anymore, here goes: I've read before, the reason we need to sleep is to give our soul's a rest, to go back to our true nature. Well smthing I've noticed is that when I get a good night's sleep (rare with my little ones) I wake up very much identified with this personality and feeling 'down'. Now I know what there is to know, stay with the observer and know that it's not me. Am trying but My mind is telling me stories and I feel rubbish. Just as I think I've come far, it's almost like- 'ha, you thought you were awakening? '. It's so fruatrating. Ok this probably has nothing to do with the contents of the thread but I think being on the other side of the world, I miss all the juicy chats until I wake up and it's too late. I just feel that when I stop to look am ok but then just get sucked back into this sort of 'depression'. You're just out of the vortex, that's all. ;D |
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Post by exactamente on Jan 20, 2012 3:31:31 GMT -5
Definately Not normal for me. Ok here's a strange question, but I figured I've embarassed myself and been honest enough on this forum not to care anymore, here goes: I've read before, the reason we need to sleep is to give our soul's a rest, to go back to our true nature. Well smthing I've noticed is that when I get a good night's sleep (rare with my little ones) I wake up very much identified with this personality and feeling 'down'. Now I know what there is to know, stay with the observer and know that it's not me. Am trying but My mind is telling me stories and I feel rubbish. Just as I think I've come far, it's almost like- 'ha, you thought you were awakening? '. It's so fruatrating. Ok this probably has nothing to do with the contents of the thread but I think being on the other side of the world, I miss all the juicy chats until I wake up and it's too late. I just feel that when I stop to look am ok but then just get sucked back into this sort of 'depression'. Andrew, I've got to say I resonate with a lot of what you say. There's more to this than we know. Jesus may have 'accepted his fate, however, all the compassion, love, peace and healing he taught is something I believe we should aspire to. There's no way his message was simply to accept this, I refuse to accept that currently (haha). His message was also one of love for yourself and others. I think I read that you're going to give up the forum? (Apologies if that's wrong). Well I hope you don't. I think you, I and others asking the questions and offering differences in opinion is what makes this forum. Someone else posted about why are we all here on this forum? Well I am learning so much on here personally and I won't give up until I'm there now. There are some brilliant teachers on here, who I am v grateful for (zd, Enigma, exact, silence to name a few). Hi esponja, thanks. My understanding is also that the soul leaves the body during deep sleep. If your soul has left for a long time in deep sleep, there may be a slight heaviness afterwards. I wouldnt worry about it too much. There are times when I experience some heaviness and if I told stories about it I would probably be depressed too. In a way, I think this process isnt about ONLY experiencing a light and easy energy, its more about becoming an effective surfer of energies i.e. to allow the different energies to come and go without too much concern or worry. One of the good things about feeling a bit heavy is that different options become available to me. So I might think about going for a walk in the park (which isnt really something I would think about doing if I am experiencing a light energy). So in a way I just ride the heaviness and find the gift in it, and it passes and a new energy comes along. I guess what Im saying is maybe, dont take it too seriously. Sounds like shifting mind states to me. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 20, 2012 3:52:12 GMT -5
Hi esponja, thanks. My understanding is also that the soul leaves the body during deep sleep. If your soul has left for a long time in deep sleep, there may be a slight heaviness afterwards. I wouldnt worry about it too much. There are times when I experience some heaviness and if I told stories about it I would probably be depressed too. In a way, I think this process isnt about ONLY experiencing a light and easy energy, its more about becoming an effective surfer of energies i.e. to allow the different energies to come and go without too much concern or worry. One of the good things about feeling a bit heavy is that different options become available to me. So I might think about going for a walk in the park (which isnt really something I would think about doing if I am experiencing a light energy). So in a way I just ride the heaviness and find the gift in it, and it passes and a new energy comes along. I guess what Im saying is maybe, dont take it too seriously. Sounds like shifting mind states to me. What other kind of states are there? When are we NOT in a state of mind? |
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Post by Portto on Jan 20, 2012 7:14:28 GMT -5
What other kind of states are there? When are we NOT in a state of mind? If you see a difference between mind (thinking about the world) and awareness (witnessing the world), then there are many such states. Thinking approach:Are you "mind?" Is mind what you are? If not, then there is something that is not mind and that is not a state of mind. Experiential approach:When you are awed by a landscape, or frightened to death, or falling asleep, or waking up, or in samadhi, there is no mind! |
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Post by andrew on Jan 20, 2012 7:52:52 GMT -5
What other kind of states are there? When are we NOT in a state of mind? If you see a difference between mind (thinking about the world) and awareness (witnessing the world), then there are many such states. Thinking approach:Are you "mind?" Is mind what you are? If not, then there is something that is not mind and that is not a state of mind. Experiential approach:When you are awed by a landscape, or frightened to death, or falling asleep, or waking up, or in samadhi, there is no mind! They are still mind states because experiencing happens through mind. When we speak of no-mind its a WAY of experiencing. The states are still mind states though. Mind is a gift without which experiencing couldnt happen. There are only mind states. A state of being and a state of mind is really the same thing! The state of observing/witnessing which people sometimes speak of is still a mind state. But actually, like no-mind, or non-attachment, witnessing is more of an approach than a state. We never actually step outside of the flow of creation to neutrally observe from a distance. We are always fully immersed in the flow of creation itself. Mind-ing happens. |
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Post by exactamente on Jan 20, 2012 8:02:40 GMT -5
What other kind of states are there? When are we NOT in a state of mind? ... Experiential approach:When you are awed by a landscape, or frightened to death, or falling asleep, or waking up, or in samadhi, there is no mind![/quote] Right. No mind-ing doesn't mean that everything ceases to exist. andrewYou can google "flow experience", might be helpful. |
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Post by exactamente on Jan 20, 2012 8:04:57 GMT -5
If you see a difference between mind (thinking about the world) and awareness (witnessing the world), then there are many such states. Thinking approach:Are you "mind?" Is mind what you are? If not, then there is something that is not mind and that is not a state of mind. Experiential approach:When you are awed by a landscape, or frightened to death, or falling asleep, or waking up, or in samadhi, there is no mind! They are still mind states because experiencing happens through mind. When we speak of no-mind its a WAY of experiencing. The states are still mind states though. Mind is a gift without which experiencing couldnt happen. There are only mind states. A state of being and a state of mind is really the same thing! The state of observing/witnessing which people sometimes speak of is still a mind state. But actually, like no-mind, or non-attachment, witnessing is more of an approach than a state. We never actually step outside of the flow of creation to neutrally observe from a distance. We are always fully immersed in the flow of creation itself. Mind-ing happens. If you mean with "we" persons, then you are right. But there is something prior to mind and prior to persons. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 20, 2012 8:06:04 GMT -5
What other kind of states are there? When are we NOT in a state of mind? ... Experiential approach:When you are awed by a landscape, or frightened to death, or falling asleep, or waking up, or in samadhi, there is no mind! Right. No mind-ing doesn't mean that everything ceases to exist. andrewYou can google "flow experience", might be helpful.[/quote] Helpful in what sense? Flow experience is what I point to when I talk of a non-dual reality. A flow experience is not our reality because we still experience attraction and aversion, we still say yes and no. It seems to me that you are saying that you organize yourself in such a way so as to only experience one state of mind/being. Is that correct? Do you not experience light, bubbly, joyful and delighted states? Do you not experience playful states? Do you not experience deep compassionate states? Do you not experience soft loving states? Do you not experience frustrated states? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 20, 2012 8:06:59 GMT -5
They are still mind states because experiencing happens through mind. When we speak of no-mind its a WAY of experiencing. The states are still mind states though. Mind is a gift without which experiencing couldnt happen. There are only mind states. A state of being and a state of mind is really the same thing! The state of observing/witnessing which people sometimes speak of is still a mind state. But actually, like no-mind, or non-attachment, witnessing is more of an approach than a state. We never actually step outside of the flow of creation to neutrally observe from a distance. We are always fully immersed in the flow of creation itself. Mind-ing happens. If you mean with "we" persons, then you are right. But there is something prior to mind and prior to persons. No there isnt. Mind and Being go hand in hand. We only SAY there is something 'prior' to point away from identification with form. In actuality, there is no separation. Sometimes people reside in a particular state of mind/being in which it SEEMS as they have placed distance between themselves and mind. This is quite delusionary in its own way. |
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Post by exactamente on Jan 20, 2012 8:09:22 GMT -5
Helpful in what sense? Flow experience is what I point to when I talk of a non-dual reality. A flow experience is not our reality because we still experience attraction and aversion, we still say yes and no. It seems to me that you are saying that you organize yourself in such a way so as to only experience one state of mind/being. Is that correct? Do you not experience light, bubbly, joyful and delighted states? Do you not experience playful states? Do you not experience deep compassionate states? Do you not experience soft loving states? Do you not experience frustrated states? Flow experience means loss of identity, it's impersonal. Therefore it's prior to any state. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 20, 2012 8:12:16 GMT -5
Right. No mind-ing doesn't mean that everything ceases to exist. andrewYou can google "flow experience", might be helpful. Helpful in what sense? Flow experience is what I point to when I talk of a non-dual reality. A flow experience is not our reality because we still experience attraction and aversion, we still say yes and no. It seems to me that you are saying that you organize yourself in such a way so as to only experience one state of mind/being. Is that correct? Do you not experience light, bubbly, joyful and delighted states? Do you not experience playful states? Do you not experience deep compassionate states? Do you not experience soft loving states? Do you not experience frustrated states? Flow experience means loss of identity, it's impersonal. Therefore it's prior to any state. [/quote] There is no prior, thats a delusion. We only experience states. Am I correct that you only experience one state? You dont experience the states I described? |
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Post by exactamente on Jan 20, 2012 8:13:19 GMT -5
Sometimes people reside in a particular state of mind/being in which it SEEMS as they have placed distance between themselves and mind. This is quite delusionary in its own way. What you are describing is small-e-enlightenment, it's going as general as possible, back to the "I am" so that it seems any identity is lost. |
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