|
|
Post by gypsywind on Jan 19, 2012 17:36:43 GMT -5
gypsywind, i was actually going to say something along the lines of what enigma just said to you. i lost my connection and the post got lost. i was fascinated, because when you first got here, you literally took special time to thank zd for his teachings, and express such gratitude that he was here to learn from. and then you called him.... a not nice name. i thought that was interesting. enigma said it with a bit more um, practice, than i have with these words..... but still. don't you find it interesting?  I've been losing my connection on a regular basis here. I don't much believe in coincidence any longer. I don't even recall what enigma just said to me. It's just not that interesting, or important. Good luck. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 19, 2012 17:37:16 GMT -5
Um. I dont know. Im saying that a conscious experience of contrast involves a 'recognition'. At the other end of my stick is what I called non-contrast i.e. an experience of contrast but without recognition. For as long as we are interested in consciously experiencing contrast the conditions will reflect/mirror this. Hence we create war in order to experience both war and peace (and on the forum we create our own mini sandpit version of this). When there is no interest in consciously experiencing contrast the conditions will reflect/mirror this....i.e a world of peace. I resonate with most of that, and it's what I've been talking about as well. The only way I can understand experiencing contrast without recognition is observing without thought, which is ATA. Okay, I see what you are saying there, but actually Im talking about a slightly different kind of experiencing contrast without recognition. From what I understand about ATA there is an observer observing 'the actual' or a 'unified field of being'. There is still a subtle recognizing happening. In this reality, bodyminds burn in the sun and shiver in the cold. In the non-contrast that Im talking about there is none of that... there is no experiencing as such, there is only expression. Which might sound terminally dull to some, but it all depends on our interests. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jan 19, 2012 17:38:09 GMT -5
Well, Andrew is looking for a 100% good experience as a person. From my perspective, he doesn't understand the dualistic nature of ALL experiences, though he has some kind of a sense that such a thing is possible. To transcend good/bad doesn't mean getting all the good and leaving the bad behind, it means including it all and experiencing both the good and bad from a perspective wherein neither is a problem to be solved. What I mean by bending the stick over is observing ugliness and looking for a way to see it as beautiful, whereas actually beauty and ugliness simply remain as they are, each literally defining the other. Oh I think I understand, I just see and feel a potential very clearly that you dont. To you, a world of peace is not possible. To me, it is. I pretty much agree with your idea of what it means to be at peace within THIS dualistic reality though. Andrew: What we're saying is that THIS is the only THIS there is. It is neither peaceful nor non-peaceful. It is what it is. It is beyond time, space, and thingness. It is whole and complete. You can either accept it as it is or psychologically resist it. To imagine that there is anything other than THIS is an act of imagination. THIS is unbounded, so there is nothing outside of THIS in any sense whatsoever. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 19, 2012 17:41:16 GMT -5
Oh I think I understand, I just see and feel a potential very clearly that you dont. To you, a world of peace is not possible. To me, it is. I pretty much agree with your idea of what it means to be at peace within THIS dualistic reality though. Andrew: What we're saying is that THIS is the only THIS there is. It is neither peaceful nor non-peaceful. It is what it is. It is beyond time, space, and thingness. It is whole and complete. You can either accept it as it is or psychologically resist it. To imagine that there is anything other than THIS is an act of imagination. THIS is unbounded, so there is nothing outside of THIS in any sense whatsoever. Yes, I agree that THIS is the only THIS there is. Its probably slightly unfortunate that when I wrote my last message I bolded that word because I didnt really mean it in the way you are meaning it here. I was trying to say that a dualistic reality isnt the only kind of reality, even though we are currently experiencing a dualistic reality. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jan 19, 2012 17:44:52 GMT -5
I resonate with most of that, and it's what I've been talking about as well. The only way I can understand experiencing contrast without recognition is observing without thought, which is ATA. Hey, doesn't everyone do the ATA thing? I mean, these days, it's like the natural state, for me. Certainly my most predominant state. ATA is not what most people would call "normal," but then, you said that most people think you're sort of out to lunch already. LOL. This forum may be the only place where lots of other peeps are similarly out to lunch. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jan 19, 2012 17:47:49 GMT -5
Andrew: What we're saying is that THIS is the only THIS there is. It is neither peaceful nor non-peaceful. It is what it is. It is beyond time, space, and thingness. It is whole and complete. You can either accept it as it is or psychologically resist it. To imagine that there is anything other than THIS is an act of imagination. THIS is unbounded, so there is nothing outside of THIS in any sense whatsoever. Yes, I agree that THIS is the only THIS there is. Its probably slightly unfortunate that when I wrote my last message I bolded that word because I didnt really mean it in the way you are meaning it here. I was trying to say that a dualistic reality isnt the only kind of reality, even though we are currently experiencing a dualistic reality. Hey! Speak for yourself about experiencing a dualistic reality. Waddaya mean "we?" LOL |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 19, 2012 17:52:02 GMT -5
Yes, I agree that THIS is the only THIS there is. Its probably slightly unfortunate that when I wrote my last message I bolded that word because I didnt really mean it in the way you are meaning it here. I was trying to say that a dualistic reality isnt the only kind of reality, even though we are currently experiencing a dualistic reality. Hey! Speak for yourself about experiencing a dualistic reality. Waddaya mean "we?" LOL Do you experiencing shivering when its cold? Do you experience pain when you stub your toe? Thats a dualistic reality. The cold weather and toe stubbing are manifested because of our interest in consciously experiencing contrast. When all interest is lost, the conditions will change. Circumstances mirror our state of being. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jan 19, 2012 18:01:51 GMT -5
The body shivers when it is cold, but there is no one who experiences it. The experiencer is the illusion. There is also no one who is interested or not interested in experiencing contrast. That one, too, is illusory. Just saying....
|
|
|
|
Post by Beingist on Jan 19, 2012 18:04:04 GMT -5
Hey! Speak for yourself about experiencing a dualistic reality. Waddaya mean "we?" LOL Do you experiencing shivering when its cold? Do you experience pain when you stub your toe? Thats a dualistic reality. The cold weather and toe stubbing are manifested because of our interest in consciously experiencing contrast. When all interest is lost, the conditions will change. Circumstances mirror our state of being. Following this logic, Andrew, Jesus, then, preferred to be scourged and to die an ignominious death on a crucifix, just to experience contrast. Is that right? |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 19, 2012 18:07:13 GMT -5
The body shivers when it is cold, but there is no one who experiences it. The experiencer is the illusion. There is also no one who is interested or not interested in experiencing contrast. That one, too, is illusory. Just saying.... In order to be aware or know the bodymind is shivering there has to be a very subtle recognition of that. As there should be. Its useful to know when we are cold! If there was no interest in experiencing that subtle sense of recognition, our world would be quite different. We still have an interest in agreeing and disagreeing, or friends and foes, or resonation and discordance. As I said, it plays itself out on this forum as it does in any arena in the world. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 19, 2012 18:10:25 GMT -5
Do you experiencing shivering when its cold? Do you experience pain when you stub your toe? Thats a dualistic reality. The cold weather and toe stubbing are manifested because of our interest in consciously experiencing contrast. When all interest is lost, the conditions will change. Circumstances mirror our state of being. Following this logic, Andrew, Jesus, then, preferred to be scourged and to die an ignominious death on a crucifix, just to experience contrast. Is that right? Im not quite sure that I would use the word 'preferred', but yes, I would say there was an interest in experiencing contrast. If we are on this earth, there is an interest in experiencing contrast. My understanding is that Jesus was the incarnated form of a highly evolved being referred to as Sananda. Sananda knew what he was getting himself into. Where DO I get this stuff?! Hehe. |
|
|
|
Post by vacant on Jan 19, 2012 18:15:13 GMT -5
I see your expression as both beautiful, as when you befriend someone and post a compliment, and ugly, as when you make an enemy and insult him. In this case, it's like duality on crack, originating from an unconscious feeling sense that drives perception such that what is seen is believed to be true because it is felt to be true. The perception of friend/foe, good/bad are mutually defining and self reinforcing, and as long as we're attached to those powerful feelings, they continue. That's just how duality and unconsciousness work. Blah, blah, blah... You've posted it so often you're "bound" to believe it. Gypsy, you can dismiss, but you are hearing this stuff. It's all about listening to what you're hearing... read again if you care to, there could be some mileage in it! |
|
|
|
Post by esponja on Jan 19, 2012 18:47:19 GMT -5
Hey, doesn't everyone do the ATA thing? I mean, these days, it's like the natural state, for me. Certainly my most predominant state. ATA is not what most people would call "normal," but then, you said that most people think you're sort of out to lunch already. LOL. This forum may be the only place where lots of other peeps are similarly out to lunch. Definately Not normal for me. Ok here's a strange question, but I figured I've embarassed myself and been honest enough on this forum not to care anymore, here goes: I've read before, the reason we need to sleep is to give our soul's a rest, to go back to our true nature. Well smthing I've noticed is that when I get a good night's sleep (rare with my little ones) I wake up very much identified with this personality and feeling 'down'. Now I know what there is to know, stay with the observer and know that it's not me. Am trying but My mind is telling me stories and I feel rubbish. Just as I think I've come far, it's almost like- 'ha, you thought you were awakening? '. It's so fruatrating. Ok this probably has nothing to do with the contents of the thread but I think being on the other side of the world, I miss all the juicy chats until I wake up and it's too late. I just feel that when I stop to look am ok but then just get sucked back into this sort of 'depression'. Andrew, I've got to say I resonate with a lot of what you say. There's more to this than we know. Jesus may have 'accepted his fate, however, all the compassion, love, peace and healing he taught is something I believe we should aspire to. There's no way his message was simply to accept this, I refuse to accept that currently (haha). His message was also one of love for yourself and others. I think I read that you're going to give up the forum? (Apologies if that's wrong). Well I hope you don't. I think you, I and others asking the questions and offering differences in opinion is what makes this forum. Someone else posted about why are we all here on this forum? Well I am learning so much on here personally and I won't give up until I'm there now. There are some brilliant teachers on here, who I am v grateful for (zd, Enigma, exact, silence to name a few). |
|
|
|
Post by angela on Jan 19, 2012 18:53:11 GMT -5
in my experience, "this" isn't about feeling good or bad or any which way. it was by trying to squirm away from my "depression" that it stuck around..... what we resist, persists. there's something going on, underneath, some belief or story, that needs to be looked into. mainly, that story is some version of "this isn't it" or "i'm not it" or "i am going to awaken at some future date once i've perfected enough to see things clearly" and that kinda stuff. the argument with THIS, HERE takes a ton of forms. but it's all a big yelling NOOOOOOOO in some sense. liberation is when the arguments all stop. then what's left, is... well.... THIS.  |
|
|
|
Post by esponja on Jan 19, 2012 19:02:27 GMT -5
in my experience, "this" isn't about feeling good or bad or any which way. it was by trying to squirm away from my "depression" that it stuck around..... what we resist, persists. there's something going on, underneath, some belief or story, that needs to be looked into. mainly, that story is some version of "this isn't it" or "i'm not it" or "i am going to awaken at some future date once i've perfected enough to see things clearly" and that kinda stuff. the argument with THIS, HERE takes a ton of forms. but it's all a big yelling NOOOOOOOO in some sense. liberation is when the arguments all stop. then what's left, is... well.... THIS. Thanks Angela, I feel like I know that. It's more a 'feeling'- just this lethargy and feeling rubbish and then I think my mind tried to tell me why. I guess I'll get there, just one of those days...ggrr By the way Umani is coming here in Feb and I'm trying to go. My first spiritual meeting, ha ha. Am excited. Her message is so simple and easy. |
|
