|
|
Post by nobodyishome on Jan 20, 2012 21:46:25 GMT -5
It's a strange cat. Willingness and volition. We could say do we have free will or not? Ultimately my own revealing shows we don't have free will. Having said that when we place attention or notice something most feel that our will is involved in the placement of attention or in the eagerness to notice? If someone makes a comment "I find life works better when I employ noticing then it leaves the question or option to not notice since the person used the word (better). So do we really have a choice to notice or not? To make a choice shows we have free will or not? One could say you were destined to make that choice before you made it. This type of conversation can go on for a long time.
NBisH If your own revealing shows there is no free will, there's no need for conversation.  NBisH |
|
|
|
Post by exactamente on Jan 20, 2012 23:34:53 GMT -5
I would argue that it is mind identified but in a very subtle way though I agree that you have never suggested passivity or neutrality. I think there is an implication of somehow being able to somehow stand apart from our creative nature when this observation position is still a creative position. I find the word 'Peace' a little suggestive of an enlightened state. I take it you at one point had a pretty significant hang up about trying to become enlightened and finding 'the state'? I'm wondering what kind of license plate the State of Enlightenment must have... ;D |
|
|
|
Post by nobodyishome on Jan 20, 2012 23:44:05 GMT -5
I'm wondering what kind of license plate the State of Enlightenment must have... ;D  NBisH |
|
|
|
Post by exactamente on Jan 20, 2012 23:52:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by nobodyishome on Jan 20, 2012 23:58:03 GMT -5
Yeah but mine is real and been around for ages hehe Like the balloon-stars though. NBisH |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2012 2:57:25 GMT -5
Whereas I would say its the most direct route. But then I dont think the willingness to release attachment is the SAME as releasing attachment. I think we can be willing but too frightened to release. Then we're not willing. Then what could it mean to be willing to release it? Confusion about how to let go of what one is holding onto, is a mind game used to avoid the fact that there isn't the willingness to let go. Willingness is like...'openness and readiness and inclination' and it is connected to 'desire'. Are you familiar with the ideas of parts integration and self-sabotage? There can be willingness but too much fear to take action. In the case of attachment, there can be willingness but a lack of clarity as to what we are attached to exactly. And there can be willingness and clarity as to what to release, but a lack of clarity as to how to release it. I have experienced all three of these things in the past. Im not sure how you think attachment is released, but I would say that it means working with the body as a whole, not just the conscious mind. Are you suggesting that you released attachment by noticing something? |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2012 2:59:45 GMT -5
Oh, great, there it goes again! He's a real nowhere man Sitting in his nowhere land... (Otherwise, I got it--willingness and volition: two separate things  ) Yes, willingness is either present or not. Nobody 'wills' it to be present, though as you well know, life has a way of bringing one to one's knees. I am clear as to how to generate a stronger and more intense willingness. There are strategies we can use to strengthen and intensify it. |
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on Jan 21, 2012 10:37:42 GMT -5
World Peace is kinda like a World of Unconditional Love... It won't happen as long as you think there's a World out there that needs Peace or Unconditional Love. Yes they are the same thing (world peace and world of unconditional love) In my opinion it will happen when we have lost interest in experiencing duality. And it could happen in waves. There could even be 2 earths in 2 different realities. Well, unconditional LOVE means LOVING your anger, pain, selfishness, sadness, depression, etc, etc... Unconditional LOVE means LOVING the false idea that there's a we out there, that needs to lose interest in experiencing duality. Unconditional LOVE means LOVING the 911 bombers, those that perpetrate unimaginable degradation to humans and those that destroy the planet for profit. Unconditional LOVE means LOVING your wife or husband or children, when they aren't showing any LOVE for you. Unconditional LOVE means accepting that there is no exit point from this moment and to simply LOVE This. And it means to LOVE Unconditionally what you are as the source of everything. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 21, 2012 11:12:06 GMT -5
Then we're not willing. Then what could it mean to be willing to release it? Confusion about how to let go of what one is holding onto, is a mind game used to avoid the fact that there isn't the willingness to let go. Willingness is like...'openness and readiness and inclination' and it is connected to 'desire'. Are you familiar with the ideas of parts integration and self-sabotage? There can be willingness but too much fear to take action. In the case of attachment, there can be willingness but a lack of clarity as to what we are attached to exactly. And there can be willingness and clarity as to what to release, but a lack of clarity as to how to release it. I have experienced all three of these things in the past. And all I'm saying is that they are games mind plays with itself. Of course! |
|
|
|
Post by angela on Jan 21, 2012 11:27:53 GMT -5
bob ferguson writes about the ego1/ego2 split that is in this vein. one article about it is this one: www.searchwithin.org/download/double_trouble.pdfbut that's not the best one i've read by him on the subject. he has more clear writings about this, but i have to find them. basically, there's the ego who says it's the good guy, and is going to do the good work of progressing, and it splits itself off from the bad ego, the bad stuff that needs to be fixed. and it's all ego, really. finding that, seeing it in action, is painful and subtle and all that. but it needs to be done if we're gonna see what's really what around here. more stuff by bob ferguson and the rest of the rose crew here: www.searchwithin.org/download.htmlots of good articles.  |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 21, 2012 11:48:23 GMT -5
bob ferguson writes about the ego1/ego2 split that is in this vein. one article about it is this one: www.searchwithin.org/download/double_trouble.pdfbut that's not the best one i've read by him on the subject. he has more clear writings about this, but i have to find them. basically, there's the ego who says it's the good guy, and is going to do the good work of progressing, and it splits itself off from the bad ego, the bad stuff that needs to be fixed. and it's all ego, really. finding that, seeing it in action, is painful and subtle and all that. but it needs to be done if we're gonna see what's really what around here. more stuff by bob ferguson and the rest of the rose crew here: www.searchwithin.org/download.htmlots of good articles. Zakly, which is why the issue of the split mind games keeps coming up. Being willing to do something that needs a strategy to bring about the doing, or trying to get past ego, or engaging in practices to get the mind to do something it doesn't want to do, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2012 11:50:11 GMT -5
Yes they are the same thing (world peace and world of unconditional love) In my opinion it will happen when we have lost interest in experiencing duality. And it could happen in waves. There could even be 2 earths in 2 different realities. Well, unconditional LOVE means LOVING your anger, pain, selfishness, sadness, depression, etc, etc... Unconditional LOVE means LOVING the false idea that there's a we out there, that needs to lose interest in experiencing duality. Unconditional LOVE means LOVING the 911 bombers, those that perpetrate unimaginable degradation to humans and those that destroy the planet for profit. Unconditional LOVE means LOVING your wife or husband or children, when they aren't showing any LOVE for you. Unconditional LOVE means accepting that there is no exit point from this moment and to simply LOVE This. And it means to LOVE Unconditionally what you are as the source of everything. I basically agree. But on the other hand, stub your toe and in the moment you stub it, you wont be loving. Drink mouldy milk and in the moment of recognition followed by spitting out, you wont be loving. We are not meant to unconditionally love in this reality. And yet on the other hand, we are compelled to work towards it (or it is compelling us, whichever way we want to look at it). |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2012 11:52:34 GMT -5
Willingness is like...'openness and readiness and inclination' and it is connected to 'desire'. Are you familiar with the ideas of parts integration and self-sabotage? There can be willingness but too much fear to take action. In the case of attachment, there can be willingness but a lack of clarity as to what we are attached to exactly. And there can be willingness and clarity as to what to release, but a lack of clarity as to how to release it. I have experienced all three of these things in the past. And all I'm saying is that they are games mind plays with itself. Of course! If intellectual noticing is all that has happened, then I think mind may have tricked itself into thinking it has released attachment when it hasnt. I would say releasing attachment happens with the whole body, not just with the conscious mind. |
|
|
|
Post by angela on Jan 21, 2012 11:54:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 21, 2012 11:58:28 GMT -5
And all I'm saying is that they are games mind plays with itself. Of course! If intellectual noticing is all that has happened, then I think mind may have tricked itself into thinking it has released attachment when it hasnt. I would say releasing attachment happens with the whole body, not just with the conscious mind. I'm never talking about 'intellectual noticing'. |
|
)
