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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2012 4:57:30 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 9:37:18 GMT -5
I don't think any of this points beyond conditioning, fundamentally. it's just story creation centered on the hero. Tony Robbins is a salesman. A con-artist, in the sense of giving the participants confidence to then spread the confidence. He is a powerful artist, that much is clear.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2012 10:13:02 GMT -5
I don't think any of this points beyond conditioning, fundamentally. it's just story creation centered on the hero. Tony Robbins is a salesman. A con-artist, in the sense of giving the participants confidence to then spread the confidence. He is a powerful artist, that much is clear. Well, the way I see it is that we have been conditioned to feel certain ways given particular circumstances. What I think Anthony does is encourage us to take responsibility for how we feel in any given moment, regardless of the circumstances. This breaks the conditioned programming. It breaks the 'rules' we have been given from parents and society in general. I agree he is a salesman, but who isnt selling something? I would say that everyone is selling something in each and every moment, though some are just selling more consciously than others. Jesus was a wonderful salesman in his own way. We are always sending a message out to the universe. We might be selling love or joy or forgiveness. Anthony Robbins sells empowerment, he sells the ability to take responsibility for our state and our feelings in any given situation. In my opinion, this is a very valuable thing. I agree that he is a very powerful artist. If I had an issue with stories I probably also wouldnt resonate with him, but in my opinion stories happen and life itself is a story. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 11:27:00 GMT -5
i hear a dog barking. time for a walk.
i find this sort of con-artistry ultimately disempowering. even though the program is 'empowering' it ultimately is still a program.
this is okay. it's not my cup of tea, it's yours (and lots of others). it could be helpful in the same way you point to the LOA stuff.
i don't really wish to discuss it much, just offer up my little opinion. the dog is barking.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2012 11:37:36 GMT -5
i hear a dog barking. time for a walk. i find this sort of con-artistry ultimately disempowering. even though the program is 'empowering' it ultimately is still a program. this is okay. it's not my cup of tea, it's yours (and lots of others). it could be helpful in the same way you point to the LOA stuff. i don't really wish to discuss it much, just offer up my little opinion. the dog is barking. Ah, come on, lets have a chat  I swear to you, I used to think exactly the same thing about this kind of thing. It seemed fake, unreal, deceitful, inauthentic. I think what changed for me eventually is that the result became more important for me than the strategy of achieving it. Its like....I got over being a snob. I wanted to be more joyful, loving, compassionate, kind, passionate, fun and playful. I wanted to experience more of those things in my life. At which point I realized that there was not going to be a threshold point which I would cross and then I would suddenly be all those things and experience all those qualities. Its a moment by moment basis thing. If I want more joy now, I have to be joyful now. If I want more playfulness now, I have to be playful now. For me, this is mastery. It is choosing on a moment by moment basis who/what to be, it is choosing our states, it is choosing the quality of our experience (regardless of whether it is true or not that there is a choice). And it takes practice, discipline and commitment until it is easy and natural and happens without effort. In my opinion, mastery of these kinds of choices is the end of our conditioning. I understand the ideal is to step outside programming, or get beyond programming, but it never happens because mind-ing continues. At most we become masters of self-programming. To say this another way, there are only 'states' because all experiencing happens through mind. Joy, love, passion, compassion, kindness, playfulness, fun - all these states are experienced through mind (we could talk about 'no-mind' but a state of no-mind is actually still experienced through mind). Therefore, either we are allowing circumstances to dictate our state, or we are choosing our state. Either way, programming is happening. Either way, there is a subtle choice being made. |
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Post by nobodyishome on Jan 12, 2012 12:38:25 GMT -5
I understand the ideal is to step outside programming, or get beyond programming, but it never happens because mind-ing continues.[/b]
Hi Andrew I hear yeah. Many years ago I took some courses from LandMark Edu(The Forum etc). I actually found them quite useful for stepping outside the box. I certainly did not find such programs to be any-kind of hindrance for the seeker. Yes they are programs as Max correctly implies. However not a waste in this 3D world imho.
I got it!{old EST phrase}
NBisH
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2012 13:40:29 GMT -5
I understand the ideal is to step outside programming, or get beyond programming, but it never happens because mind-ing continues. [/b] Hi Andrew I hear yeah. Many years ago I took some courses from LandMark Edu(The Forum etc). I actually found them quite useful for stepping outside the box. I certainly did not find such programs to be any-kind of hindrance for the seeker. Yes they are programs as Max correctly implies. However not a waste in this 3D world imho. I got it!{old EST phrase} NBisH [/quote] Cool |
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Post by gypsywind on Jan 12, 2012 13:52:31 GMT -5
Joy, love, passion, compassion, kindness, playfulness, fun - all these states are experienced through mind (we could talk about 'no-mind' but a state of no-mind is actually still experienced through mind). Therefore, either we are allowing circumstances to dictate our state, or we are choosing our state. Either way, programming is happening. Either way, there is a subtle choice being made. I learned just the other day that Samadhi is a mind state... Sometimes I'm just slow... ;D |
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2012 14:07:36 GMT -5
Joy, love, passion, compassion, kindness, playfulness, fun - all these states are experienced through mind (we could talk about 'no-mind' but a state of no-mind is actually still experienced through mind). Therefore, either we are allowing circumstances to dictate our state, or we are choosing our state. Either way, programming is happening. Either way, there is a subtle choice being made. I learned just the other day that Samadhi is a mind state... Sometimes I'm just slow... ;D Nah its not that gypsy, I think its just a confusing issue. What I see happen is that mind is often talked about as something to be released or dropped, and sometimes talked about as if there is no such thing. We also talk about 'no-mind' and it is often said that the state of Being has nothing to do with mind. I actually resonate with all of these ideas in some conversations, but if mind is turned into a problem, its not helpful. I like what Robbins says because I find it very practical and simple. If there are only ever different states of Being/mind, then really when we talk about joy and love and passion and compassion its just a case of getting in state. Nothing complex about it, nothing to be released or dropped, no chicanery, just a case of changing state through changing focus and physiology. Part of it is that I am working closely with my Mum lately to help her achieve a goal. Talking to her in abstract ways is no good at all, I have had to find ways of talking to her which are straightforward. Just like everyone else, she knows what love is, what joy is, what passion is, what compassion is, what gratitude is, what celebration is, what commitment is, what determination is. She also understands now that if she wants to, that she can choose to experience these qualities through making some simple changes in her physiology and focus. |
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Post by nobodyishome on Jan 12, 2012 14:40:04 GMT -5
The mind has a never-ending story of what it is imo.
From my own experience I once believed(a concept) the mind to be a giant container, a collective if you will.
A thingy where all thoughts arise and disperse. Then latter on I had the revelation that whenever you are still and quiet and then progress to place your attention on the mind, the mind cannot be found. So in truth the mind itself is just a concept to which we frame everything in this 3D world. The mind simply does not exist as a thing or a power. I have come to realize that we may have only one power. The power of [/color]attention.[/color]
NBisH
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Post by gypsywind on Jan 12, 2012 14:40:39 GMT -5
I learned just the other day that Samadhi is a mind state... Sometimes I'm just slow... ;D Nah its not that gypsy, I think its just a confusing issue. What I see happen is that mind is often talked about as something to be released or dropped, and sometimes talked about as if there is no such thing. We also talk about 'no-mind' and it is often said that the state of Being has nothing to do with mind. I actually resonate with all of these ideas in some conversations, but if mind is turned into a problem, its not helpful. I like what Robbins says because I find it very practical and simple. If there are only ever different states of Being/mind, then really when we talk about joy and love and passion and compassion its just a case of getting in state. Nothing complex about it, nothing to be released or dropped, no chicanery, just a case of changing state through changing focus and physiology. Part of it is that I am working closely with my Mum lately to help her achieve a goal. Talking to her in abstract ways is no good at all, I have had to find ways of talking to her which are straightforward. Just like everyone else, she knows what love is, what joy is, what passion is, what compassion is, what gratitude is, what celebration is, what commitment is, what determination is. She also understands now that if she wants to, that she can choose to experience these qualities through making some simple changes in her physiology and focus. This resonates with me, a. Mind is a wave of the ocean of being. It's so simple. While reading Vasistha this morning, it was reaffirmed. Your mom is in good hands. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2012 14:47:25 GMT -5
The mind has a never-ending story of what it is imo.
From my own experience I once believed(a concept) the mind to be a giant container, a collective if you will.
A thingy where all thoughts arise and disperse. Then latter on I had the revelation that whenever you are still and quiet and then progress to place your attention on the mind, the mind cannot be found. So in truth the mind itself is just a concept to which we frame everything in this 3D world. The mind simply does not exist as a thing or a power. I have come to realize that we may have only one power. The power of attention. [/color] NBisH [/quote] yes, I understand. I agree that mind cannot be found if we place our attention on it. On the other hand, I would say that the experience of looking and not finding is still happening through mind (or mind-ing). The way I have come to understand attention is that for as long as we are in a waking state, attention is being placed on something, even if its just being placed on itself. But as above, the attention is still being placed through the mind-ing that happens. Even when placed on itself it is still happening through mind-ing. So the way I see it is that there are infinite ways of directing attention, so yes, to me too, this would be where the power is. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2012 14:48:38 GMT -5
Nah its not that gypsy, I think its just a confusing issue. What I see happen is that mind is often talked about as something to be released or dropped, and sometimes talked about as if there is no such thing. We also talk about 'no-mind' and it is often said that the state of Being has nothing to do with mind. I actually resonate with all of these ideas in some conversations, but if mind is turned into a problem, its not helpful. I like what Robbins says because I find it very practical and simple. If there are only ever different states of Being/mind, then really when we talk about joy and love and passion and compassion its just a case of getting in state. Nothing complex about it, nothing to be released or dropped, no chicanery, just a case of changing state through changing focus and physiology. Part of it is that I am working closely with my Mum lately to help her achieve a goal. Talking to her in abstract ways is no good at all, I have had to find ways of talking to her which are straightforward. Just like everyone else, she knows what love is, what joy is, what passion is, what compassion is, what gratitude is, what celebration is, what commitment is, what determination is. She also understands now that if she wants to, that she can choose to experience these qualities through making some simple changes in her physiology and focus. This resonates with me, a. Mind is a wave of the ocean of being. It's so simple. While reading Vasistha this morning, it was reaffirmed. Your mom is in good hands. Yes. The wave/ocean is a cool metaphor. Thanks |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 14:53:25 GMT -5
it's funny, the toon below was one of the first hits when searching google images for "tony robbins cartoon"  |
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2012 14:56:37 GMT -5
it's funny, the toon below was one of the first hits when searching google images for "tony robbins cartoon" Wow. Thats kind of coincidental/synchronistic. I think maybe there is some kind of message there for me somewhere, Im just not sure what it is! Maybe I should take up spoon bending hehe. |
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