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Post by Beingist on Jan 2, 2012 12:32:57 GMT -5
But basically you just put out the message, he said, He who has ears to hear, let him hear. He sowed seeds. He said some fell on hard ground, some fell on fertile soil, and some fell on all types in-between. This assumes a sower.
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Post by enigma on Jan 2, 2012 13:10:09 GMT -5
According to the Book of Thomas the Contender, another text from the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus speaks to Thomas- that is, to the reader- in these words: "Since it has been said that you are my twin and my true companion, it is not fitting for you to be ignorant of yourself. So while you accompany me, although you do not yet understand it, you have already come to know, and you will be called "the one who knows himself."For whoever has not known himself knows nothing, but he who has known himself has already understood the depth of all things. While the New Testament gospels speak of Jesus as the only door to salvation, the only path ("I am the way....no one come to the Father except through me") [John 14:6] another of these texts discovered at, Nag Hammadi, The Teaching of Silvanus, speaks quite differently: "Knock upon yourself as upon a door, and walk upon yourself as a straight road. For if you walk on that path, you cannot go astray; and when you knock on that door, what you open for yourself shall open." text by-Elaine Pagels It is astounding how the King James interpretations could veer so far off course. But it's ok... Jesus didn't know himself to be an individual person, so he wasn't referring to himself as such.
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Post by enigma on Jan 2, 2012 13:13:15 GMT -5
But basically you just put out the message, he said, He who has ears to hear, let him hear. He sowed seeds. He said some fell on hard ground, some fell on fertile soil, and some fell on all types in-between. This assumes a sower. Only if you assume it.
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Post by klaus on Jan 2, 2012 13:15:44 GMT -5
So, it's pointless for anyone to impart any wisdom or understanding to anyone else? Yes, it's pointless, those who hear will hear what they want from wisdom or understand what they want to understand from understanding. But they will not know wisdom or understanding by wisdom or understanding. What we have here is a modern tower of babel. Oh, how it is to suffer when one is misunderstood.
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Post by gypsywind on Jan 2, 2012 13:19:29 GMT -5
According to the Book of Thomas the Contender, another text from the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus speaks to Thomas- that is, to the reader- in these words: "Since it has been said that you are my twin and my true companion, it is not fitting for you to be ignorant of yourself. So while you accompany me, although you do not yet understand it, you have already come to know, and you will be called "the one who knows himself."For whoever has not known himself knows nothing, but he who has known himself has already understood the depth of all things. While the New Testament gospels speak of Jesus as the only door to salvation, the only path ("I am the way....no one come to the Father except through me") [John 14:6] another of these texts discovered at, Nag Hammadi, The Teaching of Silvanus, speaks quite differently: "Knock upon yourself as upon a door, and walk upon yourself as a straight road. For if you walk on that path, you cannot go astray; and when you knock on that door, what you open for yourself shall open." text by-Elaine Pagels It is astounding how the King James interpretations could veer so far off course. But it's ok... Jesus didn't know himself to be an individual person, so he wasn't referring to himself as such. Hmmm...didn't know that. ;D So, when he told Mary Magdalene upon entering a village- "Don't tell them I am here, or about me (I forget the actual quote)" he was just funnin' with her? I sense he had a grasp on the personal/impersonal conditional/unconditional aspects of who he really was.
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Post by question on Jan 2, 2012 14:24:09 GMT -5
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Post by Beingist on Jan 2, 2012 14:48:38 GMT -5
Correct, and pilgrim apparently is.
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Post by Beingist on Jan 2, 2012 14:50:23 GMT -5
So, it's pointless for anyone to impart any wisdom or understanding to anyone else? Yes, it's pointless, those who hear will hear what they want from wisdom or understand what they want to understand from understanding. But they will not know wisdom or understanding by wisdom or understanding. What we have here is a modern tower of babel. Oh, how it is to suffer when one is misunderstood. Sorry, klaus, I don't understand what you're talking about. ;D
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Post by klaus on Jan 2, 2012 16:06:01 GMT -5
Yes, it's pointless, those who hear will hear what they want from wisdom or understand what they want to understand from understanding. But they will not know wisdom or understanding by wisdom or understanding. What we have here is a modern tower of babel. Oh, how it is to suffer when one is misunderstood. Sorry, klaus, I don't understand what you're talking about. ;D What we have here is a modern tower of babel. Oh, how it is to suffer when one is misunderstood Ha, ha.
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Post by runstill on Jan 2, 2012 16:13:51 GMT -5
Klaus 'quote' [Jesus blew it by expecting "GOD" to take him off the cross. Instead he left him hanging on the cross to die. He was to into his own image as the messiah saving the nation of Israel. Jesus did not get it.] I dunno I think Jesus did get it. 'Quote' ( you dont need to be a Christian to understand the deep universal truth that is contained in the symbolic form of the image of the cross. The cross is a torture instrument. It stands for the most extreme suffering limitation, and helplessness a human being can encounter. Then suddenly that human being surrenders, suffers willingly , consciously, expressed through the words, { Not my will but Thy will be done.} At that moment , the cross, the torture instrument, shows it hidden face: it is also a sacred symbol, a symbol for the divine. That which seemed to deny the existence of any transcendental dimension to life, through >surrender< becomes an opening into that dimension.)
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Post by runstill on Jan 2, 2012 16:21:03 GMT -5
I could probably google some MM stuff, but if you have a few examples you wouldn't mind sharing it would be appreciated. I find this stuff fascinating. What is matter? Will it last forever? The Teacher answered: All that is born, all that is created, all the elements of nature are interwoven and united with each other. All that is composed will be decomposed; everything returns to its roots; matter returns to the origins of matter. Those who have ears, let them hear. Peter said to him: Since you have become the interpreter of the elements and the events of the world, tell us: What is the sin of the world?The Teacher answered: There is no sin. It is you who make sin exist, when you act according to the habits of your corrupted nature; this is where sin lies. This is why the Good has come into your midst. It acts together with the elements of your nature so as to reunite it with its roots. Then he continued: This is why you become sick, and why you die: it is a result of your actions; what you do takes you further away. Those who have ears, let them hear. beginning page 7 (pages 1-6 missing) from The Gospel of Mary Magdalene, translated from the Coptic by Jean-Yves LeLoup, Orthodox theologian, 1997, English translation, 2002, Inner Traditions Thank You
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Post by question on Jan 2, 2012 16:36:21 GMT -5
Not my will but Thy will be done. Who is 'Thy'? The Romans? Jesus must have been quite the poet, getting himself butchered for cool symbols and stuff.
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Post by gypsywind on Jan 2, 2012 16:44:31 GMT -5
Klaus 'quote' [Jesus blew it by expecting "GOD" to take him off the cross. Instead he left him hanging on the cross to die. He was to into his own image as the messiah saving the nation of Israel. Jesus did not get it.] I dunno I think Jesus did get it. 'Quote' ( you dont need to be a Christian to understand the deep universal truth that is contained in the symbolic form of the image of the cross. The cross is a torture instrument. It stands for the most extreme suffering limitation, and helplessness a human being can encounter. Then suddenly that human being surrenders, suffers willingly , consciously, expressed through the words, { Not my will but Thy will be done.} At that moment , the cross, the torture instrument, shows it hidden face: it is also a sacred symbol, a symbol for the divine. That which seemed to deny the existence of any transcendental dimension to life, through >surrender< becomes an opening into that dimension.) I think Jesus did "get it," too. Perhaps the "torture" instrument, and his death came to pass because of the "dreams of men." Who were nowhere to be found when his body was withering and his heart grew weak from loss of blood, as he hung dying on the cross. The women did not run. Their dreams didn't coincide with the fear in the hearts of men...
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Post by runstill on Jan 2, 2012 17:08:19 GMT -5
(Who is 'Thy'? The Romans? ) funny (Jesus must have been quite the poet, getting himself butchered for cool symbols and stuff.) not a poet a teacher
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Post by Beingist on Jan 2, 2012 17:40:26 GMT -5
(Who is 'Thy'? The Romans? ) funny (Jesus must have been quite the poet, getting himself butchered for cool symbols and stuff.) not a poet a teacher Yes, but teaching is pointless, according to some.
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