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Post by lightmystic on Feb 2, 2009 11:01:26 GMT -5
Randi - Hi LM,
Actually we agree on every point here you just missundersood a small point I was making..no big deal at all
Ahh, yes, the typical semantics issue....  My bad.... |
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 2, 2009 11:06:24 GMT -5
Kappa,
If a female you knew was being assaulted in some way, then there is a natural desire to protect her. True acceptance of EVERYTHING means accepting that the situation of assault is fundamentally right, the desire to do something about it is fundamentally right, the action taken to prevent it is fundamentally right, and the result is fundamentally right...
The doing nothing part means that if you have pain over it, it's resolving it in yourself that's going to make the difference, not trying to force an adjustment in outside circumstances.
Does that make sense?
On another note: What I referred to above was obviously in regards to changing things in our world on a quantum level, however, I have to admit that I would be hard pressed to do "nothing" if my daughter, sister, mother, or wife was being violated next to me (microcosm) with a bayonet stuck in her girl thingy. I am sorry, but I can't help thinking it is easy to say "all is well" and "I don't do those things to women", when we are not directly involved. Doing nothing is also a fertile ground for evil to wreck havoc.
Thanks for listening to my "two cents",
Peace always,
Kappa
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Post by Kappa 1 on Feb 2, 2009 16:16:05 GMT -5
P: You are entitled to your opinion ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (often attributed to Edmund Burke)...(and Daoism) , but I am going to have to disagree with both you and Burke.
So let's agree to disagree. I consider myself sort of an activist, and I believe that the way to create a world in which we can all live in peace and harmony is by adding GOOD to it, or LIGHT, if you want. I realize we cannot change darkness by adding more dark, but we can change it by adding light. I hope you will keep you own advise in mind if the day ever comes (God forbid...), when one of your loved ones or yourself is being brutally raped, mugged, harassed, violated, robbed, etc. etc. .. then you will sit back and think about what Burke said, " All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
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Post by The Uncreated on Feb 2, 2009 16:39:11 GMT -5
I consider myself sort of an activist, and I believe that the way to create a world in which we can all live in peace and harmony is by adding GOOD to it, or LIGHT. Thoroughly destined to failure. "Good" and "bad" rise and fall together; they cannot be separated. To create goodness is to create a moral distinction in which its opposite automatically springs to life for counterbalance. Do you understand? The concept "morality" supports the concept "immorality" -- vice versa. The same is true with all the opposites. To want "goodness" and "light" is to insist on their opposites too, "badness" and "darkness." In all cases you get the baby and the bathwater here. The ultimate recipe for true harmony is to transcend the idea of good and bad altogether, and the only way for humanity to do that is to wake the hell up all at once, and that isn't likely to ever happen because frankly, illusion is a necessary ingredient for recognition of the truth. That's the nature of the perfect universe in its perfect symmetry. It may sound thoroughly pessimistic, but don't misread what I say -- we worship Maya as much as we worship Truth for both are one way or the other responsible for our ultimate salvation. - |
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Post by Kappa1 on Feb 2, 2009 16:40:13 GMT -5
I guess I am going to have to agree to disagree with some of you, especially with "P". Perhaps there are several ways, P, of attaining a world in which we want to live. One can be as you mentioned, "Inactive", and another, which I favor, is "Acticve", or "Adding light to Darkness". I realize we cannot have a peaceful world by adding more darkness to darkness, but we can LOVE or add more light, or become more God-like, if you want.
On another note, I am having a little bit of a hard time with understanding why some of you cannot see that a shift in consciousness is needed in order to change the violence committed against women, as Calmheart mentioned. Can you not see that what he is advocating for is that we all, especially spiritual teahcers, go out and teach the world and each other about love, peace, and respect for our fellow sisters, and that that is the way to change our consciousness from one of disrespect and violence towards women, to one of respect and love?
Kappa
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Post by KAppa 1 on Feb 2, 2009 16:45:20 GMT -5
Basically you are talking about Yin and Yang, one cannot exist without the other, etc, etc. More about that another time. However, I do advocate for a balance here, and it seems to me we are not balanced when we let one overwhelm the other?
Thanks,
Kappa
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Post by The Uncreated on Feb 2, 2009 16:56:56 GMT -5
The ultimate recipe for true harmony is to transcend the idea of good and bad altogether, and the only way for humanity to do that is to wake the hell up all at once.. To add to this, well, because I'm still riding the guest privileges here, once we wake up we may very well find that all the perceived injustices we see in the world aren't actually injustices in the larger sense at all. Pretty much what LightMystic suggests. To borrow a quote from someone who borrowed a quote: The universe is perfect, intervene at your peril.Read Jed McKenna's books. He does a fantastic (though highly unsettling) job of describing how life's biggest misfortunes aren't actually so. His best instance was describing the reason a woman paralyzed in a car accident said it was the best thing to ever happen to her. We've all heard similar, now haven't we? Perhaps by waking up, we'll determine why we could possibly welcome such things. - |
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Post by Kappa 1 on Feb 2, 2009 19:13:35 GMT -5
Hello Brothers and Sisters: I have throughly enjoyed eliciting responses (or action) through folks who advocate for non-action.
It's been fun, With much love and affection,
Kappa
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Post by The Uncreated on Feb 2, 2009 19:48:30 GMT -5
Bear in mind, true non-action isn't what most think it is. Like the Tao says, the sage walks but leaves no footprints. Take close note of the apparent contradiction here; a will is executed but it isn't his. Whether the realized person saves a woman in distress or ignores her pleas for help, he could be said to have done the right thing -- the problem of choice is the central theme in the Bhagavad Gita which Aruna eventually realizes, if you're familar with the story.
Man effects all sort of action, but the only those that have realized truly don't act in the sense that most understand it to mean, so it's important to recognize non-action as it applies to the ego-free state.
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Post by Peter on Feb 3, 2009 7:57:30 GMT -5
I guess I am going to have to agree to disagree with some of you, especially with "P". Perhaps there are several ways, P, of attaining a world in which we want to live. One can be as you mentioned, "Inactive", and another, which I favor, is "Acticve" Kappa, I'm thoroughly confused by your writing here because I was arguing for action not against it. When Burke says "All the is necessary for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing", the assumption here is that the Triumph of Evil is not an outcome that we wish to see, therefore good men should do something. Can you explain your interpretation that caused you to think I was arguing against you? I can't imagine how you took that the other way, unless you think I'm some sort of Satanist. Cheers, Peter |
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 3, 2009 11:03:07 GMT -5
Pleased to hear it, but if you think we're advocating non-action then you are understanding what we're saying at all... Hello Brothers and Sisters: I have throughly enjoyed eliciting responses (or action) through folks who advocate for non-action. It's been fun, With much love and affection, Kappa |
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My bad....