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Post by silver on Jun 10, 2013 17:50:41 GMT -5
Greetings.. So.. if i'm beating you, and telling you that the pain you feel only 'appears as pain in your mind', you'll understand, right? you'll be okay with that Love, right? The reason it doesn't make sense, is it simply doesn't make sense.. it sounds cool to somebody, but no, it's how some people justify really inhumane deeds.. Be well.. You can imagine any scenario you want to justify your need to protect your specialness from that which you fear. Like I told Silver, sensibility is an imagined protection mechanism, so it's not actually a shield against the unknown. Funny part is, no such shield is needed against our greatest fear, just some courage. But.....Who told you all this 'information' / 'knowledge' / 'knowing', trf? Same thing that told anyone else their opinion - we are all merely supposing and making conjectures about what we're able to see from each of our individual vantage points at any given time. It can change tomorrow or next hour or next minute. Everything is imagined isn't it, then. Frankly, I don't see anyone protecting anything or trying to do so.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 10, 2013 19:04:39 GMT -5
Love isn't an emotion--at least not the Love trf is talking about. That 'Love' is 'out there' - it's a concept - I suppose you'd call it ineffable (??) - unprovable. Not that I don't understand the concept of Love you're pointing at...and the sentiments behind it - what it symbolizes. How could it not be an emotion? It's the only way you (or anybody) can understand it. Not something to be understood. But, I'll leave it at that, because anything else could lead to an argument.
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Post by silver on Jun 10, 2013 19:36:10 GMT -5
That 'Love' is 'out there' - it's a concept - I suppose you'd call it ineffable (??) - unprovable. Not that I don't understand the concept of Love you're pointing at...and the sentiments behind it - what it symbolizes. How could it not be an emotion? It's the only way you (or anybody) can understand it. Not something to be understood. But, I'll leave it at that, because anything else could lead to an argument. I think, for various reasons people choose to believe one way or another - I choose to believe we don't understand what is beyond the beyond, y'know? Until we die, and maybe not even then, we'll come to know all - see all that we couldn't before of the 'invisible realm(s)' like Love - it may not be out there. I think it's A O K to give ourselves credit here and now, for being loving, giving, and all that. We don't have to wait to honor that in ourselves and each other. But, beyond that, seems rather woowoo. Heh, I bet you're like those in The Matrix, bending over backwards etc. to avoid any 'serious' confrontations. I'm pretty much that way, too.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 10, 2013 19:45:39 GMT -5
Not something to be understood. But, I'll leave it at that, because anything else could lead to an argument. I think, for various reasons people choose to believe one way or another - I choose to believe we don't understand what is beyond the beyond, y'know? Until we die, and maybe not even then, we'll come to know all - see all that we couldn't before of the 'invisible realm(s)' like Love - it may not be out there. I think it's A O K to give ourselves credit here and now, for being loving, giving, and all that. We don't have to wait to honor that in ourselves and each other. But, beyond that, seems rather woowoo. Heh, I bet you're like those in The Matrix, bending over backwards etc. to avoid any 'serious' confrontations. I'm pretty much that way, too. I rez with this. I still don't know (nor particularly want to know) what this Matrix thing is all about, so I cannot comment on that last remark.
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Post by silver on Jun 10, 2013 19:56:54 GMT -5
I think, for various reasons people choose to believe one way or another - I choose to believe we don't understand what is beyond the beyond, y'know? Until we die, and maybe not even then, we'll come to know all - see all that we couldn't before of the 'invisible realm(s)' like Love - it may not be out there. I think it's A O K to give ourselves credit here and now, for being loving, giving, and all that. We don't have to wait to honor that in ourselves and each other. But, beyond that, seems rather woowoo. Heh, I bet you're like those in The Matrix, bending over backwards etc. to avoid any 'serious' confrontations. I'm pretty much that way, too. I rez with this. I still don't know (nor particularly want to know) what this Matrix thing is all about, so I cannot comment on that last remark. It does sound nice, but I'm simply wondering out loud about the labeling necessity of dual v nondual and all that sorta thing. I don't think it's necessary to say one is preferred over another because it's all ideas and concepts anyhoo. Have you seen the movie, The Matrix?
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Post by Beingist on Jun 10, 2013 20:04:08 GMT -5
I rez with this. I still don't know (nor particularly want to know) what this Matrix thing is all about, so I cannot comment on that last remark. It does sound nice, but I'm simply wondering out loud about the labeling necessity of dual v nondual and all that sorta thing. I don't think it's necessary to say one is preferred over another because it's all ideas and concepts anyhoo. Have you seen the movie, The Matrix? Yes, I've seen the movie, but I didn't understand then, and I don't understand now what all the hullaballoo is about. As far as dual/nondual, it goes back to what I've been saying about reality/actuality, spiritual/material, absolute/relative. Neither is 'preferred'. It's just the way it is (or, just the way I see things).
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Post by silver on Jun 10, 2013 20:07:50 GMT -5
It does sound nice, but I'm simply wondering out loud about the labeling necessity of dual v nondual and all that sorta thing. I don't think it's necessary to say one is preferred over another because it's all ideas and concepts anyhoo. Have you seen the movie, The Matrix? Yes, I've seen the movie, but I didn't understand then, and I don't understand now what all the hullaballoo is about. As far as dual/nondual, it goes back to what I've been saying about reality/actuality, spiritual/material, absolute/relative. Neither is 'preferred'. It's just the way it is (or, just the way I see things). Ah. I'm just referring to the slo-mo movements they did to avoid bullets, knives and other stuff - avoidance moves - that's all I meant - trying to make a joke, but like somebody else around here, I'm one joke away from being funny.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 10, 2013 20:11:31 GMT -5
Yes, I've seen the movie, but I didn't understand then, and I don't understand now what all the hullaballoo is about. As far as dual/nondual, it goes back to what I've been saying about reality/actuality, spiritual/material, absolute/relative. Neither is 'preferred'. It's just the way it is (or, just the way I see things). Ah. I'm just referring to the slo-mo movements they did to avoid bullets, knives and other stuff - avoidance moves - that's all I meant - trying to make a joke, but like somebody else around here, I'm one joke away from being funny. I preferred the slo-mo stuff in the movie 300, but then, I knew the plot fairly intimately. Unfortunately, jokes are often lost on literal people like me.
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Post by laughter on Jun 10, 2013 21:02:07 GMT -5
The whole point of knowing that you can know what you are not is that you know. It is all in the context of course, of knowing that we can't know what we are. Have you considered letting go of the context? I don't know whether I can, or cannot know :-) That allows for the possibility that what we are is finite, and that's fine I guess, so sure, for the sake of discussion, forget that we can't know what we are. Still doesn't put a dent in the fact that I'm not the Pacific Ocean, a cocker spaniel or my right arm ... I know I'm not those. If this is a contest of who can know the least, I lose! ... 'cause I know that there are quite a few objects of perception that are not what I am.
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Post by laughter on Jun 10, 2013 21:12:07 GMT -5
I rez with this. I still don't know (nor particularly want to know) what this Matrix thing is all about, so I cannot comment on that last remark. It does sound nice, but I'm simply wondering out loud about the labeling necessity of dual v nondual and all that sorta thing. I don't think it's necessary to say one is preferred over another because it's all ideas and concepts anyhoo. Have you seen the movie, The Matrix? Concepts are expressions of duality and depend on it, while the concept of nonduality points away from this, which is sort of the point.
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Post by laughter on Jun 10, 2013 21:14:15 GMT -5
It does sound nice, but I'm simply wondering out loud about the labeling necessity of dual v nondual and all that sorta thing. I don't think it's necessary to say one is preferred over another because it's all ideas and concepts anyhoo. Have you seen the movie, The Matrix? Yes, I've seen the movie, but I didn't understand then, and I don't understand now what all the hullaballoo is about. As far as dual/nondual, it goes back to what I've been saying about reality/actuality, spiritual/material, absolute/relative. Neither is 'preferred'. It's just the way it is (or, just the way I see things). When Neo wakes up in the pod that's a metaphor for awakening and the red pill/blue pill choice is a metaphor for choosing to be here and now or to remain lost in imagination.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 10, 2013 21:20:09 GMT -5
Yes, I've seen the movie, but I didn't understand then, and I don't understand now what all the hullaballoo is about. As far as dual/nondual, it goes back to what I've been saying about reality/actuality, spiritual/material, absolute/relative. Neither is 'preferred'. It's just the way it is (or, just the way I see things). When Neo wakes up in the pod that's a metaphor for awakening and the red pill/blue pill choice is a metaphor for choosing to be here and now or to remain lost in imagination. Yeah, that's it. Metaphorical stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 21:30:40 GMT -5
You can imagine any scenario you want to justify your need to protect your specialness from that which you fear. Like I told Silver, sensibility is an imagined protection mechanism, so it's not actually a shield against the unknown. Funny part is, no such shield is needed against our greatest fear, just some courage. But.....Who told you all this 'information' / 'knowledge' / 'knowing', trf? Same thing that told anyone else their opinion - we are all merely supposing and making conjectures about what we're able to see from each of our individual vantage points at any given time. It can change tomorrow or next hour or next minute. Everything is imagined isn't it, then. Frankly, I don't see anyone protecting anything or trying to do so. It is that individual vantage point that is being protected and rightly so, and there is nothing wrong with that. That small part is also what we are, but the protection of it is what causes all our suffering. The greater part of what we are is the unknown which we fear. And since we have an innate physiological instinct to survive, we create an imagined psychological comfort zone to protect ourselves from what we fear may destroy us. Our greatest fear is nothing more than the 'I AM EVERYTHING' as opposed to the 'I AM the body', I AM TRF, etc, etc,...
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 10, 2013 22:00:54 GMT -5
Greetings.. But.....Who told you all this 'information' / 'knowledge' / 'knowing', trf? Same thing that told anyone else their opinion - we are all merely supposing and making conjectures about what we're able to see from each of our individual vantage points at any given time. It can change tomorrow or next hour or next minute. Everything is imagined isn't it, then. Frankly, I don't see anyone protecting anything or trying to do so. It is that individual vantage point that is being protected and rightly so, and there is nothing wrong with that. That small part is also what we are, but the protection of it is what causes all our suffering. The greater part of what we are is the unknown which we fear. And since we have an innate physiological instinct to survive, we create an imagined psychological comfort zone to protect ourselves from what we fear may destroy us. Our greatest fear is nothing more than the 'I AM EVERYTHING' as opposed to the 'I AM the body', I AM TRF, etc, etc,... I hear you telling us about 'your' fears, trf.. telling us what "causes all 'your' suffering".. are you trying to create the illusion that others feel like you do? The individual vantage point isn't "being protected", that's your belief.. from the 'Tzu' perspective, the individual vantage point is being acknowledged as a relationship with the whole.. i experience the individual AND the whole without preference for, or denial of, either.. contrary to your beliefs, trf, i find the "unknown" to be an amazing limitless playground full of potential where consciousness, through experience, creates reality, i have no fear of it at all.. i am curious why you believe that anyone should fear the unknown.. Be well..
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Post by enigma on Jun 11, 2013 10:48:32 GMT -5
Greetings.. It is that individual vantage point that is being protected and rightly so, and there is nothing wrong with that. That small part is also what we are, but the protection of it is what causes all our suffering. The greater part of what we are is the unknown which we fear. And since we have an innate physiological instinct to survive, we create an imagined psychological comfort zone to protect ourselves from what we fear may destroy us. Our greatest fear is nothing more than the 'I AM EVERYTHING' as opposed to the 'I AM the body', I AM TRF, etc, etc,... I hear you telling us about 'your' fears, trf.. telling us what "causes all 'your' suffering".. are you trying to create the illusion that others feel like you do? The individual vantage point isn't "being protected", that's your belief.. from the 'Tzu' perspective, the individual vantage point is being acknowledged as a relationship with the whole.. i experience the individual AND the whole without preference for, or denial of, either.. contrary to your beliefs, trf, i find the "unknown" to be an amazing limitless playground full of potential where consciousness, through experience, creates reality, i have no fear of it at all.. i am curious why you believe that anyone should fear the unknown.. Be well.. You know all about the unknown?
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