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Post by popee2 on Oct 10, 2011 11:29:11 GMT -5
"It's true that what is done with the mind is the problem, though ignoring it or trying to control it or trying to transcend it is not the solution. Maybe we could say eliminating the solutions is the solution, and this requires working with the mind. There isn't something else to work with."
I'd agree with you on points one and two, but not three (transcend).
There is something else to work with - Silence. You'd be surprised how much clearer you can see when the sentences get out of the way.
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Post by enigma on Oct 10, 2011 11:31:48 GMT -5
Silence happens. Silence is. You can't work with it.
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Post by popee2 on Oct 10, 2011 11:33:07 GMT -5
Define work.
And whilst I'm here ... for me, working, is residing in that stillness which only no-thought can provide. Even though the senses are still gathering data, there is no dialog about what's coming in. I found the words to almost always be judgments or labels or beliefs, none of which I found to be helpful. Understanding is not hindered by no-thoughts, it is heightened.
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Post by enigma on Oct 10, 2011 11:49:02 GMT -5
Silence is the result of conscious awareness, not the cause of it or a tool by which to bring it about. As mind becomes more conscious, and stuff falls away, mind grows more still and silence becomes more abiding.
What use does mind have for silence? What use does silence have for silence? Silence is, mind moves. You have to deal with what moves.
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Post by popee2 on Oct 10, 2011 12:01:20 GMT -5
"deal with what moves"
I deal with things all the time. I don't have to comment of them while I'm doing them though.
Hard to tell if we're in disagreement, or if its just a semantics thing. I am NOT going to think about it though. lol
btw - a "definition" about what silence is .. that's a tad ambitious, no?
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Post by therealfake on Oct 10, 2011 12:25:09 GMT -5
I would be right behind you, Bob. Thanks for expressing that so succinctly. There IS an honoring of that often courageous longing that appears on this forum in whatever form it does, and is clearly recognized when it does. Though I won't presume to know the reasons why Ramana preferred giving silent teachings, I can guess ... Words often get in the way. They illicit thought. Then beliefs and desires. It seems like the hardest thing for a seeker to accept .. is that thoughts hinder. Exactly... That's what I was trying to say, to take any thought seriously, is to create a hindering attachment to it. We make our thoughts important, because we think there is someone thinking them and thus we make ourselves important. And that link between thought and a thinker is the first thing that needs collapsing. We make thought and intellectualizing more important than the world itself, we make ourselves so darn important... And one way to counteract that illusory dynamic is to not take oursleves seriously. And that lack of seriousness is a common thread amongst all true teachers who would never take umbrage with it. Everyone knows intuitively that if you come to a spiritual forum looking for stimulating ideas, theories, beliefs, intellectual discussions, then your going to be disappointed. It's worth remembering that the real teaching is not in the words but within yourself. That to which most of the spiritual rhetoric points is not found in the realm of thought, but that deep inner dimension within ourselves that is infinitely vaster than thought. True teachers don't have anything to teach in the usual sense, and has absolutely nothing to give to you, like information, beliefs or rules of conduct..heh But rather they help to remove that which separates us from the truth. Whenever I feel the dimension of peace arising from within as I read certain posters, I know that the signposts are working, and I remember who I am, as I get pointed inward... Peace |
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Post by enigma on Oct 10, 2011 13:41:57 GMT -5
"deal with what moves" I deal with things all the time. I don't have to comment of them while I'm doing them though. Hard to tell if we're in disagreement, or if its just a semantics thing. I am NOT going to think about it though. lol btw - a "definition" about what silence is .. that's a tad ambitious, no? I didn't define what silence is. Trying to distance yourself from the functioning of mind may leave it dysfunctional. An example occurs to me of a friend who was operating from the delusion of not being able to think. This went on for a couple of years and the conversations we're very odd; dreamlike and barely decipherable. He was coming from a place of unconsciousness, and his idea that the solution to his unenlightenment was to not think, which was mind's way of going even deeper into unconsciousness. Mind then had free reign and could project and deny unchallenged, which it did will frightening predictability. I'm happy to report that he has now fully recovered. Hehe. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 10, 2011 13:47:57 GMT -5
Whenever I feel the dimension of peace arising from within as I read certain posters, I know that the signposts are working, and I remember who I am, as I get pointed inward... Peace And that sounds useful to me. It doesn't sound like pure entertainment. |
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Post by popee2 on Oct 10, 2011 13:57:56 GMT -5
"I didn't define what silence is"
Sorry, the sentence that started with "Silence is ..." threw me off. lol
Not sure what to make of your friend's story, seekers are an odd lot, I'll give you that.
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Post by enigma on Oct 10, 2011 14:01:32 GMT -5
"I didn't define what silence is" Sorry, the sentence that started with "Silence is ..." threw me off. lol I know it did, which is why I offered that story. The sentence was actually "Silence is the result of conscious awareness", which is not meant to be some kind of definition of silence. It's a little like saying 'God is what you are', which is not a definition of God. |
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Post by therealfake on Oct 10, 2011 15:16:07 GMT -5
Whenever I feel the dimension of peace arising from within as I read certain posters, I know that the signposts are working, and I remember who I am, as I get pointed inward... Peace And that sounds useful to me. It doesn't sound like pure entertainment. Thoughts of usefulness is what the mind does. Trying to make the eternal vastness into a 'doing' sounds like entertainment to me... |
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Post by popee2 on Oct 10, 2011 16:05:23 GMT -5
Actually, the comment arose from a shallow place, which is why I deleted it.
I know better, just not always instantaneously though.
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Post by enigma on Oct 10, 2011 16:59:58 GMT -5
Okay, I deleted mine too, which should really make people think. Hehe.
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Post by tathagata on Oct 12, 2011 20:51:18 GMT -5
This whole thing becomes very simple if you just do one thing....observe the observer...but this is the hardest thing for people to actually sit down and do on a frequent and consistant basis...
Observe what is observing...and then observe what is observing the observing....keep Going until you get to the dead end...and then stay at that dead end as much as possible...sit there....reside there....and all questions become answered or moot....this one simple thing is all you have to do....everything else is window dressing that makes doing this one thing easier.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 7:36:59 GMT -5
time to throw a brick in it
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