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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2011 22:59:45 GMT -5
Gnaw. I had a discussion with someone recently and I said it's extremely difficult to see the wholeness of a vase after it has been shattered, but it's quite obvious before shattering it, meaning it's much easier to see oneness by looking at what it is before we imagine the parts. Likewise, beginning with all of these appearances of senses and thoughts and feelings, and trying to assemble them into a kind of jig saw puzzle is an endless process of creation rather than assembly. It's not really much of a puzzle. There's just whatever is happening and it needs no explanation except when thinking imagines that it does, but thinking is also just happening and when it's seen that mind's models are self-contained and have no authority beyond mind then mind is integrated into the caleidoscope of existence. With the issue about how understanding is prior to any specific context it was a lot easier because I could actually consult experience and see that it was true. But in the case of sensory perception vs imagination it's a lot more difficult, because experiential evidence doesn't support the hypothesis. Where I come from we don't have nothing. What happens is just whatever happens, I don't see no infinite potential of intelligence creating stuff out of thin air except as a cool story. Sorry, but from my pov it's just a fairytale. I can imagine all I want, for some strange reason my imagination doesn't create, I actually have to work in order for a imagination to materialize. Meh, this conversation isn't really working our too well right now. I'm not the kinda guy who falls for poetry or spiritual pep talk.  Yeah, time to cut our losses. Hehe. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 8:04:13 GMT -5
Ha ha. Yes, but its even funnier and stranger than that. That spoonful of mashed potatoes IS you. Literally. There are no real boundaries here. Wherever you look, you are looking at yourself. You are both the looker and the lookee. ruminating on this still ...muuu --ruminating mind is okay with everything, including a spoonful of mashed potatoes, being dependent on awareness. --it's okay with the arising of the manifold sensations included in the set of perceptions labeled by the pointer "spoonful of mashed potatoes" as not separate from awareness, in the sense that one can not be without the other. --[awareness is saying at the moment ' ask me if I care that "ruminating mind" is okay with anything... and then ask me if i care that awareness cares....' but that's an aside.] --mind is reluctantly (dragged kicking an screaming actually) okay with the spoonful of mashed potatoes (SPoM) also being me, especially if the me is referred to with a big M. SPoM can be differentiated from me (sheesh listen to me now :  but not Me. hmm...whereas SPoM actually seems more actual than 'me,' SPom can not be separated from Me in any real sense. they come together. p.s. doesn't it seem like the universal Me or God or Ever-Present Awareness or The Natural State or Self or All should not be capitalized? The convention is to capitalize the particular isn't it? -- like a proper name. What we're talking about is the Universal. Whatever -- IT DOESN"T MATTER  |
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Post by vacant on Oct 7, 2011 14:16:42 GMT -5
Hey Max, don’t know why I’m moved to give my 2 cents on this particular post but here’s my take on it: There’s a lot of stuff being said in these pages, a very large portion useless in my current reckoning —not a negative remark, anything which would be found useful would call for the question “useful towards what aim?” and that’s another can of worms, hohoho— and a smaller portion of pointers that can only pass through between the lines. I don’t know shit about some unity experiences sometimes described here, i.e. what looks through my eyes is one and the same as what looks through yours, there’s no separation between consciousness and the universe, there is only One, etc, you know the lingo. But perhaps naively I stay open to the fact that those weirdo words have a meaning in here, “resonance” is mystics' often-used terminology without meaning anything more than any other (I feel Question’s gaze burning through my neck!) Anyway, what I’m getting at is that since we are amply warned that this stuff doesn’t stand up to analytical scrutiny, I feel like staying open to any and every possibility, including I am this spoonful of mashed potatoes, without making too much of it… no sweat, who the hell cares if this dude "vacant" who doesn't even feel like a dude, is naive or clued up, understands or not this wannabe cool but not so cool stuff about advaita or non-duality (hehe). It's all what it is no matter what! Whatever the freaky declarations doing the rounds in “spiritual seekers” and advisers circles (a farce  but no disrespect, god forbid) I find it silly to try and find a meaning in what others say, like “how is it I could see or feel the experience that so-and-so talks about” because there is only one way: mine (yours for you) and that does not need to be sought or defined or declared, and that’s well grinding as we speak albeit often unawares. I guess in that small sense I feel there is only one!  All go back to the source inevitably, and I don’t want to spend my life attempting to emulate others’ descriptions of Truth. Did I get talkative for a minute? |
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Post by tathagata on Oct 7, 2011 18:26:47 GMT -5
Hey Max, don?t know why I?m moved to give my 2 cents on this particular post but here?s my take on it: There?s a lot of stuff being said in these pages, a very large portion useless in my current reckoning ?not a negative remark, anything which would be found useful would call for the question ?useful towards what aim?? and that?s another can of worms, hohoho? and a smaller portion of pointers that can only pass through between the lines. I don?t know nuts about some unity experiences sometimes described here, i.e. what looks through my eyes is one and the same as what looks through yours, there?s no separation between consciousness and the universe, there is only One, etc, you know the lingo. But perhaps naively I stay open to the fact that those weirdo words have a meaning in here, ?resonance? is mystics' often-used terminology without meaning anything more than any other (I feel Question?s gaze burning through my neck!) Anyway, what I?m getting at is that since we are amply warned that this stuff doesn?t stand up to analytical scrutiny, I feel like staying open to any and every possibility, including I am this spoonful of mashed potatoes, without making too much of it? no sweat, who the hell cares if this dude "vacant" who doesn't even feel like a dude, is naive or clued up, understands or not this wannabe cool but not so cool stuff about advaita or non-duality (hehe). It's all what it is no matter what! Whatever the freaky declarations doing the rounds in ?spiritual seekers? and advisers circles (a farce but no disrespect, god forbid) I find it silly to try and find a meaning in what others say, like ?how is it I could see or feel the experience that so-and-so talks about? because there is only one way: mine (yours for you) and that does not need to be sought or defined or declared, and that?s well grinding as we speak albeit often unawares. I guess in that small sense I feel there is only one! All go back to the source inevitably, and I don?t want to spend my life attempting to emulate others? descriptions of Truth. Did I get talkative for a minute? That was awesome Lmao.... ;D ;D ;D. Very Dennis Leary-ish lol. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 20:15:58 GMT -5
without making too much of it… no sweat, who the hell cares if this dude "vacant" who doesn't even feel like a dude, is naive or clued up, understands or not this wannabe cool but not so cool stuff about advaita or non-duality (hehe). It's all what it is no matter what! no matter what! keep throwing out those 2 cents and i'll pick em up. pretty soon i'll be able to buy a fruit drink! keep it coming, seriously.  now I'm confused, should I pick up your two cents or not? you're gettin all UG on us. just kidding! I get it. who cares? melikes. i take my time here at ST very lightly. It's amusing primarily, but has also been profoundly something-or-other at key times. Also, it's nice to trade bytes with so many awesome manifestations of oneness (gag me with a spoonful of mashed potatoes). |
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Post by therealfake on Oct 8, 2011 12:10:21 GMT -5
Same, Same,
Amusing as you say, a way of seeing thought in all it's incantations and how it's spell keeps one from bliss-fully witnessing the presence that is here now and not someplace outside of this.
To take the rhetoric on this forum as anything but comic relief, would be like falling under the influence of self-importance...hehe
It's a place to play, nothing more, nothing less...
Peace
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Post by enigma on Oct 8, 2011 18:41:45 GMT -5
Same, Same, Amusing as you say, a way of seeing thought in all it's incantations and how it's spell keeps one from bliss-fully witnessing the presence that is here now and not someplace outside of this. To take the rhetoric on this forum as anything but comic relief, would be like falling under the influence of self-importance...hehe It's a place to play, nothing more, nothing less... Peace Why does that smack of self importance to me?........Okay, don't answer that. Hehe. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 8, 2011 20:10:36 GMT -5
Why does that smack of self importance to me?........Okay, don't answer that. Hehe. Mirrors can be useful. ;-) Thanks, that's what I'm here for. ;D |
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Post by Portto on Oct 8, 2011 21:12:58 GMT -5
Mirrors can be useful. ;-) Thanks, that's what I'm here for. ;D Cool! |
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Post by therealfake on Oct 9, 2011 18:08:32 GMT -5
Same, Same, Amusing as you say, a way of seeing thought in all it's incantations and how it's spell keeps one from bliss-fully witnessing the presence that is here now and not someplace outside of this. To take the rhetoric on this forum as anything but comic relief, would be like falling under the influence of self-importance...hehe It's a place to play, nothing more, nothing less... Peace Why does that smack of self importance to me?........Okay, don't answer that. Hehe. So much for 'what Is'... I think though that if I would have praised the unfathombly immense, intellectualization and universal wealth of pragmatic spiritual rhetoric... I wouldn't be typing this...lol |
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Post by zendancer on Oct 10, 2011 1:27:59 GMT -5
This forum can surely be considered a form of existential play, but it is much more than that. There is a seriousness of intent expressed by many, if not most, posters that demands deep honor and respect. Those who hunger for the truth are not here for comic relief. I am grateful that Shawn set up this website and that people are able to find signposts here pointing them directly to the ineffable. If there were no seriousness here, I would be gone in a NY minute.
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Post by enigma on Oct 10, 2011 1:49:35 GMT -5
I would be right behind you, Bob. Thanks for expressing that so succinctly. There IS an honoring of that often courageous longing that appears on this forum in whatever form it does, and is clearly recognized when it does.
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Post by popee2 on Oct 10, 2011 9:11:12 GMT -5
I would be right behind you, Bob. Thanks for expressing that so succinctly. There IS an honoring of that often courageous longing that appears on this forum in whatever form it does, and is clearly recognized when it does. Though I won't presume to know the reasons why Ramana preferred giving silent teachings, I can guess ... Words often get in the way. They illicit thought. Then beliefs and desires. It seems like the hardest thing for a seeker to accept .. is that thoughts hinder. |
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Post by tathagata on Oct 10, 2011 9:18:33 GMT -5
I would be right behind you, Bob. Thanks for expressing that so succinctly. There IS an honoring of that often courageous longing that appears on this forum in whatever form it does, and is clearly recognized when it does. Though I won't presume to know the reasons why Ramana preferred giving silent teachings, I can guess ... Words often get in the way. They illicit thought. Then beliefs and desires. It seems like the hardest thing for a seeker to accept .. is that thoughts hinder. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 10, 2011 10:43:16 GMT -5
I would be right behind you, Bob. Thanks for expressing that so succinctly. There IS an honoring of that often courageous longing that appears on this forum in whatever form it does, and is clearly recognized when it does. Though I won't presume to know the reasons why Ramana preferred giving silent teachings, I can guess ... Words often get in the way. They illicit thought. Then beliefs and desires. It seems like the hardest thing for a seeker to accept .. is that thoughts hinder. It's true that what is done with the mind is the problem, though ignoring it or trying to control it or trying to transcend it is not the solution. Maybe we could say eliminating the solutions is the solution, and this requires working with the mind. There isn't something else to work with. |
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but not Me. hmm...whereas SPoM actually seems more actual than 'me,' SPom can not be separated from Me in any real sense. they come together.
but no disrespect, god forbid) I find it silly to try and find a meaning in what others say, like “how is it I could see or feel the experience that so-and-so talks about” because there is only one way: mine (yours for you) and that does not need to be sought or defined or declared, and that’s well grinding as we speak albeit often unawares. I guess in that small sense I feel there is only one! 
All go back to the source inevitably, and I don’t want to spend my life attempting to emulate others’ descriptions of Truth. 
