Spiritual Resolve in 2009

[Peter]

Jan 18, 2009 14:24:54 GMT -5 souley said:

Where I am right now (I'm pretty new to this), I'm just trying to stay with the feeling of awareness as much as possible in my daily life, while at the same time kind of trying to eliminate my egoic sides using the same awareness.

Hi Souley, welcome to the board.

Just writing generally here, but your paragraph above was my inspiration point.

I'm finding myself drawing back from discussions a bit at the moment. Especially - for example -arguments about whether or not thought exists after Enlightenment. I mean, that's something that you'll find out for yourself when you get there! So the only reason to discuss it is get some sort of validation of whether or not one is actually Enlightened, and the only reason for doing that is because the Ego wants to 'achieve' something, or label something or someone.

I think that thinking you've 'got there' is a spiritually disastrous state to be in. There are always more lessons to learn, more ways to grow in understanding and compassion.

Imagine that a world class hypnotist puts you under and tells you 'You are Enlightened. There are no more questions for you to answer, you do not need to seek any more.' I think this is the state that a lot of people get themselves into one way or another. A state that is very comforting, complete and satisfying, but not necessarily true.

In any event, an attitude of 'student' is much more likely to result in humility and really listening to others, compared to an attitude of 'teacher'. Humility isn't something that comes easy to me, so given the choice it's much safer for me (by which I mean: more skilful in my interaction with others) if I take the philosophical position of "still much more to learn".

I also feel like non-dual teachings aren't where I want to go right now. While I do agree that (and have had an experience of ) All being One, that isn't "why we're here" as I see it. If there is any reason to our being on Earth at this time, it's to do with working together, understanding others and working to understand/transform our desires and goals. I feel like rising above that and saying the whole thing is an illusion is passive resistance. It seems like denial of what we've been asked to experience. I feel a bit like Cypher in the Matrix here claiming that the matrix is more real than Reality. Non-attachment I'm finding very useful however - a middle way between saying the world around us is Real / Not Real.

An analogy came to mind the other day of being asked to play a computer game. The Reality of the situation is that none of the characters in the game really exist - including the player. It would be valid to say 'this is not real' and not take the game at all seriously. On the other hand, there may be advantage/purpose/meaning in trying to play the game well. On the third hand, it's worth remembering the it's still just a game and not get overly upset with it.

There is a time when one should take a stand against Wrong, and you'll need an Ego to do that. Otherwise - insert your favourite political situation here - will just continue / repeat itself.

So in 2009 I find I've got a lot of spiritual resolve and energy to 'do' rather than 'say'. I feel like everything is getting really simple, coming down to just Being Present - which is similar to you trying to stay with that feeling of awareness that I quoted above. And Meditating; that seems to make my day go easier (less stress, less vague guilt, more capacity to handle difficult situations without losing the plot) - good to have a very practical motivation for spiritual practice rather than some abstract goal. I feel like I've got a lot of capacity for putting the grunt work in - slogging the slog. Not seeking spiritual experience, but being present to the experience that is already there.

I find it very easy to stay with that self-reflexive awareness (Gurdjieff would called it Self Remembering) when I'm not trying to concentrate on anything, but as soon as I have to work on anything specific or talk to anyone, it goes out of the window. I've got an recurring alarm set up on my computer at work that says 'Wake Up!' ever half hour - I'm finding that really helpful. I've yet to have it appear when I'm already feeling really grounded and in the present moment.

Also when I go to sleep at night, I ask The Universe (or whoever has a say in these things) that my dreams be helpful to my understanding and spiritual development. That seems to have had some positive results.

I had a great meditation last night - did a 50 minute 'Just Sitting' which has the phrase "Body like a mountain, breath like the wind, mind like the sky" as a reminder said internally when the attention wanders. After about 40 minutes in, I got a number of body spasms as chunks of old energy seemed to get loosened up from what could be my base chakra. Big sit planned for tonight too, but I'm allowing myself a beer afterwards - middle way

[dwbh1953]

Jan 20, 2009 8:58:43 GMT -5 Peter said:

Jan 18, 2009 14:24:54 GMT -5 souley said:

Where I am right now (I'm pretty new to this), I'm just trying to stay with the feeling of awareness as much as possible in my daily life, while at the same time kind of trying to eliminate my egoic sides using the same awareness.

Hi Souley, welcome to the board.

Just writing generally here, but your paragraph above was my inspiration point.

I'm finding myself drawing back from discussions a bit at the moment. Especially - for example -arguments about whether or not thought exists after Enlightenment. I mean, that's something that you'll find out for yourself when you get there! So the only reason to discuss it is get some sort of validation of whether or not one is actually Enlightened, and the only reason for doing that is because the Ego wants to 'achieve' something, or label something or someone.

I think that thinking you've 'got there' is a spiritually disastrous state to be in. There are always more lessons to learn, more ways to grow in understanding and compassion.

Imagine that a world class hypnotist puts you under and tells you 'You are Enlightened. There are no more questions for you to answer, you do not need to seek any more.' I think this is the state that a lot of people get themselves into one way or another. A state that is very comforting, complete and satisfying, but not necessarily true.

In any event, an attitude of 'student' is much more likely to result in humility and really listening to others, compared to an attitude of 'teacher'. Humility isn't something that comes easy to me, so given the choice it's much safer for me (by which I mean: more skilful in my interaction with others) if I take the philosophical position of "still much more to learn".

I also feel like non-dual teachings aren't where I want to go right now. While I do agree that (and have had an experience of ) All being One, that isn't "why we're here" as I see it. If there is any reason to our being on Earth at this time, it's to do with working together, understanding others and working to understand/transform our desires and goals. I feel like rising above that and saying the whole thing is an illusion is passive resistance. It seems like denial of what we've been asked to experience. I feel a bit like Cypher in the Matrix here claiming that the matrix is more real than Reality. Non-attachment I'm finding very useful however - a middle way between saying the world around us is Real / Not Real.

An analogy came to mind the other day of being asked to play a computer game. The Reality of the situation is that none of the characters in the game really exist - including the player. It would be valid to say 'this is not real' and not take the game at all seriously. On the other hand, there may be advantage/purpose/meaning in trying to play the game well. On the third hand, it's worth remembering the it's still just a game and not get overly upset with it.

There is a time when one should take a stand against Wrong, and you'll need an Ego to do that. Otherwise - insert your favourite political situation here - will just continue / repeat itself.

So in 2009 I find I've got a lot of spiritual resolve and energy to 'do' rather than 'say'. I feel like everything is getting really simple, coming down to just Being Present - which is similar to you trying to stay with that feeling of awareness that I quoted above. And Meditating; that seems to make my day go easier (less stress, less vague guilt, more capacity to handle difficult situations without losing the plot) - good to have a very practical motivation for spiritual practice rather than some abstract goal. I feel like I've got a lot of capacity for putting the grunt work in - slogging the slog. Not seeking spiritual experience, but being present to the experience that is already there.

I find it very easy to stay with that self-reflexive awareness (Gurdjieff would called it Self Remembering) when I'm not trying to concentrate on anything, but as soon as I have to work on anything specific or talk to anyone, it goes out of the window. I've got an recurring alarm set up on my computer at work that says 'Wake Up!' ever half hour - I'm finding that really helpful. I've yet to have it appear when I'm already feeling really grounded and in the present moment.

Also when I go to sleep at night, I ask The Universe (or whoever has a say in these things) that my dreams be helpful to my understanding and spiritual development. That seems to have had some positive results.

I had a great meditation last night - did a 50 minute 'Just Sitting' which has the phrase "Body like a mountain, breath like the wind, mind like the sky" as a reminder said internally when the attention wanders. After about 40 minutes in, I got a number of body spasms as chunks of old energy seemed to get loosened up from what could be my base chakra. Big sit planned for tonight too, but I'm allowing myself a beer afterwards - middle way

Hi Peter,

Interesting words you do sound more like a preacher to me sorry need to be honest. When you use words like a very dangerous situation to be in well who is in danger?
I am going to stop now because LM loves this stuff to poke with but I will say you would benefit a lot by listening to a few talks of Sailor BoB. Here is a link for you
urbangurucafe.com/wordpress/2008/10/05/17-interview-with-bob-adamson-part-1/

urbangurucafe.com/wordpress/2008/10/13/18-interview-with-bob-adamson-part-2/


If you listen with a open mind he will set you straight on what this grand illusion really is. Awakening is very simple Peter so simple that it is missed 99% by the mind. However the starting point you are in once you awke is far greater than any kind of mediation. The truth is never in the mind discover Who you are first then you will never find a need to go backwards and mediate.

I know I can also sound like a preacher at time but Iknow enough to know that nothing here can ever hurt the real me and that words like dangerous have no meaning to those who are awake.

Ok Peace
Randji

[lightmystic]

Hey Peter,

Thanks for your post.

I'm finding myself drawing back from discussions a bit at the moment. Especially - for example -arguments about whether or not thought exists after Enlightenment. I mean, that's something that you'll find out for yourself when you get there! So the only reason to discuss it is get some sort of validation of whether or not one is actually Enlightened, and the only reason for doing that is because the Ego wants to 'achieve' something, or label something or someone.

I respectfully disagree with this point. Delving deeper into the nature of experience creates a deeper understanding, a deeper relationship to that infinite. Nothing could be more valuable and precious. If, however, it's based on conjecture, then there truly is no value.
Even if one doesn't have it, exploring there own Awareness of it to the extent they do helps strengthen it in them, allowing it to help stabilize more and more. This brings invaluable riches...

That said, if that specific topic is not relevant to you, then it's not relevant to you, and there's no reason to participate in that. That sort of thing happens to me all the time. It doesn't mean it's not invaluable to others. It's an important part of an important process of growth, although it's readily granted that not everyone is able to work that way (or perhaps would even want to...)


I think that thinking you've 'got there' is a spiritually disastrous state to be in. There are always more lessons to learn, more ways to grow in understanding and compassion.

There's always more we get to have and be and do. And that's such a comfort for me. So overwhelmingly joyful...

Imagine that a world class hypnotist puts you under and tells you 'You are Enlightened. There are no more questions for you to answer, you do not need to seek any more.' I think this is the state that a lot of people get themselves into one way or another. A state that is very comforting, complete and satisfying, but not necessarily true.

Even if it is true, one who believes that there is no more to enjoy is missing out on so much...

In any event, an attitude of 'student' is much more likely to result in humility and really listening to others, compared to an attitude of 'teacher'. Humility isn't something that comes easy to me, so given the choice it's much safer for me (by which I mean: more skilful in my interaction with others) if I take the philosophical position of "still much more to learn".

Always more to learn, but that doesn't invalidate you as a knower. You know what you know, and you don't know what you don't. There's safety in that simplicity from my experience. And when what is truly known is that one is the unknown, then that's Amazing! Because the answer is complete fulfillment on the heart level, and everything else is a strictly need-to-know basis, and, at this moment, I definitely don't need to know. Thank God.

I also feel like non-dual teachings aren't where I want to go right now. While I do agree that (and have had an experience of ) All being One, that isn't "why we're here" as I see it. If there is any reason to our being on Earth at this time, it's to do with working together, understanding others and working to understand/transform our desires and goals.

Only you know what's right for you. Follow that, and you're life will be fulfilling.
I want to note that there's absolutely no difference between the complete acceptance of everything and joining together for the mission to make this place a better one. The complete acceptance of everything means the COMPLETE Acceptance of EVERYTHING, including one's own desires and deeper purpose. If anything, my experience is that I've become more involved, more gung ho about life, more fiery, tenacious, and full of purpose since the Awakening...These are not mutually exclusive goals here. They lead in the same direction...

I feel like rising above that and saying the whole thing is an illusion is passive resistance. It seems like denial of what we've been asked to experience. I feel a bit like Cypher in the Matrix here claiming that the matrix is more real than Reality. Non-attachment I'm finding very useful however - a middle way between saying the world around us is Real / Not Real.

There's no one that I know saying the world is not real...and if I've ever said that, then I shall say - the world IS real. It's real as Awareness. It's all my Awareness....and that is as real as it ever gets for anyone...That's some serious realness...

An analogy came to mind the other day of being asked to play a computer game. The Reality of the situation is that none of the characters in the game really exist - including the player. It would be valid to say 'this is not real' and not take the game at all seriously. On the other hand, there may be advantage/purpose/meaning in trying to play the game well. On the third hand, it's worth remembering the it's still just a game and not get overly upset with it.


Sounds good.


There is a time when one should take a stand against Wrong, and you'll need an Ego to do that. Otherwise - insert your favourite political situation here - will just continue / repeat itself.


If by ego you mean feeling of lack, then no ego is necessary. If you mean ego by appearance of individuality, then yes, the ego is very important, integral part of life. That is not something to be removed. It's just that it's realized to only ever have been an idea. But that doesn't invalidate it, because experience has to look like something.


So in 2009 I find I've got a lot of spiritual resolve and energy to 'do' rather than 'say'.

Why are they mutually exclusive to you?

I feel like everything is getting really simple, coming down to just Being Present - which is similar to you trying to stay with that feeling of awareness that I quoted above. And Meditating; that seems to make my day go easier (less stress, less vague guilt, more capacity to handle difficult situations without losing the plot) - good to have a very practical motivation for spiritual practice rather than some abstract goal.

Yes, if it seems abstract, then it's not working for you and you need something else...


I feel like I've got a lot of capacity for putting the grunt work in - slogging the slog. Not seeking spiritual experience, but being present to the experience that is already there.


All experience, spiritual or otherwise IS already there. That's the point. I think you are relating the understanding that if you're always looking for something else, then you're missing what you're looking for. Because it's already here.

I find it very easy to stay with that self-reflexive awareness (Gurdjieff would called it Self Remembering) when I'm not trying to concentrate on anything, but as soon as I have to work on anything specific or talk to anyone, it goes out of the window.

Perhaps it's time to practically look at what's in the way of having it all the time when focus happens. If you can check in at any time and notice the Awareness is still there, then why do you say it's really gone?

I've got an recurring alarm set up on my computer at work that says 'Wake Up!' ever half hour - I'm finding that really helpful. I've yet to have it appear when I'm already feeling really grounded and in the present moment.


That's funny. What does that mean? It will malfunction at times?

Also when I go to sleep at night, I ask The Universe (or whoever has a say in these things) that my dreams be helpful to my understanding and spiritual development. That seems to have had some positive results.


Wonderful, it's exciting that you recognize that you can ask for life to speak to you any way you want, and life, the perfect parent, will joyfully oblige.

I had a great meditation last night - did a 50 minute 'Just Sitting' which has the phrase "Body like a mountain, breath like the wind, mind like the sky" as a reminder said internally when the attention wanders. After about 40 minutes in, I got a number of body spasms as chunks of old energy seemed to get loosened up from what could be my base chakra. Big sit planned for tonight too, but I'm allowing myself a beer afterwards - middle way

Nice. As long as it's working, and that means getting you freer and freer over time, more and more in the Now, more and more in the Self, the Awareness, then it's useful.