judge
Junior Member
Posts: 55 
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Post by judge on Jan 12, 2011 14:11:46 GMT -5
I was talking about Thusness, not Karl Renz.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 12, 2011 14:18:22 GMT -5
Oh Ok thanks for the clarification Judge.
Michael
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Post by ivory on Jan 12, 2011 14:44:04 GMT -5
I don't mean to hijack your thread here regarding RT, they've only recently been brought to my attention. I apologize for that. You are the truth but you can never know the truth. The truth is it can not know itself it just is. An eye can't see itself, a thought cannot think, sure. You may not be able to know what's true, but you CAN see what's false. I think that's a big part of this whole thing: Challenge assumptions, beliefs, etc. You may not see what's true, but you can see that those deeply cherished opinions and beliefs were false. Interviewer: Do you have a teaching, and which one? Karl Renz: Recognize everything as a lie, specially the one who recognizes everything as a lie. www.karlrenz.com/english/index.htmlBasically Karl's message is you cannot do a single thing to know who you are . I'm familiar with this guy, I've read some of his stuff. Some of it is great, but there were other parts that made me want to vomit. Karl says, "nothing needs to be done, no-one needs to do anything, there is no such thing as awakening or enlightenment." That's pure garbage. (Note that he didn't say, "there's no-one to be enlightened") Until that time just be happy, give up all the stupid searches Oh, well I'll just sit on my butt, smoke cigs, drink beer and watch tv because that makes me happy! One thing that I never got was what teachers mean by "stop seeking". Has not seeking every got anybody anywhere? I've always interpreted it as, "your beliefs won't lead you to truth". His words seems to be conflicting but so far I have found him to be 100% spot on. All teachers are conflicting. But that's just the paradoxical nature of existence/truth. |
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Post by ivory on Jan 12, 2011 14:54:07 GMT -5
Oh yeah, and about Karl being conflicting, his style is to say one thing, and then negate it. Everything he says is conflicting
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Post by popee on Jan 12, 2011 15:15:32 GMT -5
ivory wrote: Karl says, "nothing needs to be done, no-one needs to do anything, there is no such thing as awakening or enlightenment." That's pure garbage.
No, I don't think it is ivory. non-doing is difficult to understand. It's not not-doing something, it is doing something, without trying. It is the trying which hinders.
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Post by ivory on Jan 12, 2011 15:28:52 GMT -5
In Zen they say, "keep a don't know mind." You also hear, "act but don't reflect on the fruit of the act." In other words, pure action, non-expectation. This I agree with.
That being said, I still think what Karl said is pure garbage.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 12, 2011 17:02:20 GMT -5
Karl is not for everyone, teacher is. It's fine to disagree, even say it's garbage.
Michael
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Post by karen on Jan 12, 2011 17:27:32 GMT -5
Yeah the stop seeking thing is garbage in the context of thinking that means to try to stop seeking. I don't think it can be done, because you always know your own motives and intent, and you'll never pull the wool over your own eyes. That's what we've been doing forever.
But I can see that the seeking must end, and that that alone might be enough. Restlessness still abounds, and I pour that into looking at me at every chance and with as much gusto as I can genuinely apply.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 12, 2011 17:37:37 GMT -5
The stop seeking happens when you are exhausted from seeking. The seeking simply stops.
What this means is you are stopped and still. It's only in the stillness that seeing happens.
When you seek it means that you hope to find something that will help you know what you already are. It's crazy. It does not work like this. This kind of thing is only playing with the mind.
Since you are not the mind and never have been it can not work.
Karl is not saying to try anything. When you use the word try you already failed.
Michael
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Post by karen on Jan 12, 2011 18:12:54 GMT -5
I enjoyed this video:
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 14, 2011 9:24:55 GMT -5
A new clip here
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 14, 2011 13:01:12 GMT -5
please we seen this link before do not hijack my thread
thanks
Michael
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 14, 2011 13:09:22 GMT -5
Sometimes no sniffing is needed.
Gee joh why don't you tell us what you really think.
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Post by m on Jan 14, 2011 13:18:32 GMT -5
wording is a bum! I guess I get what you point at and may be that's one of the best way to point it. But of course not right on it. since it's more about finding-not finding what is alway there than about seeking-not seeking. And mind and thoughts don't helps nor hinder. Truth and thought just never cross although Truth is everything and nothing. So you are right, just to care about seeking or not, or thinking or not thinking, is totally not important (except a good way to be on Youtube :-)) m The stop seeking happens when you are exhausted from seeking. The seeking simply stops. What this means is you are stopped and still. It's only in the stillness that seeing happens. When you seek it means that you hope to find something that will help you know what you already are. It's crazy. It does not work like this. This kind of thing is only playing with the mind. Since you are not the mind and never have been it can not work. Karl is not saying to try anything. When you use the word try you already failed. Michael |
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 14, 2011 13:23:07 GMT -5
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