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Post by unveilable on Sept 28, 2010 5:33:37 GMT -5
Hi all. Do we still poke here? In a nutshell I seem to have lost a chunk of self 10 months ago but no known loss since and if there was it was not dramatic. I suspect this was either a partial loss or there was a regression after the fact. I say this because I am still operating as a doer who finds little to hold on to yet still looks for something. Anyway, I have seen some sort of unfolding or ripple effect since. Does the ripple effect tell me anything or is it just more fertilizer for the dream world? Ok I think I might know the answer to that one but I gotta try anyway.  What I’ve observed: Increase in humor, spontaneity, equanimity and overall lightness. Decrease in anxiousness, anger and sadness. They are still there just more simple I guess. Clearly ceased are emotional ‘stickiness’, chronic depression and panic attacks. These were problems for around 20 years. As far as a practice, I just check in throughout the day to see if I can notice what is happening around or in me. Im big on the Tolle pointer of feeling the inside of the body. Sometimes I journal for insight. Stuff comes up once in a while like a childhood issue thought resolved and I try to sit with it but I’m not very good at self inquiry. A recent example is when a teacher tricked me into looking at my sense of doership, felt a glimmer of something scary then automatically fled from this and could not get back to it for observation. Though books have lost value as a tool and good riddance  I still read on occasion. I recently heard seekers talking about getting inspiration and all I see is we have no choice in this so why would motivation be a concern? There is a clear felt sense of no turning back and there seems to be a momentum in place. For whatever they are worth there have been some experiences. 2 moments of a profound stunned quiet state and one day of falling in love with nothing in particular followed by three days of excitement in the chest. Other than that there have been moments of marveling and weeping at the beauty of this world, occurrences of heartfelt gratitude and other random events. Old news: All of this unfolded over the past several months after I experienced a perceived horrifying ‘soul sucking’ experience. After that came approximately 6 weeks of deep indifference. I accepted that whatever this is, it is all there is, nothing else matters. Whats my point: All that said I’m overall unsure of where I am in this. It feels like there is nothing I can do and something I must be doing at the same time. It’s a kind of caught between two worlds feeling. Im just confused really and given that, Im not even all that worked up about it all. There is a sense that things are going to work out yet I keep wanting to make sure it works out. Craziness. Thank you everybody for any comments, criticisms or observations. This forum has been a great help and Im just glad there is a place where people can share their insights for the benefit of so many others. I cant explain this in words without blubbering on. |
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Post by Portto on Sept 28, 2010 7:58:53 GMT -5
Jab! Jab!
That's quite an adventure you're onto.
If it's something you're looking forward to, it's probably a trick. Nevertheless, some tricks can be really nice.
You can't stop doing stuff because it's not you doing that stuff. The "you" that you see doing things is one of the things.
About your point: you are where you have always been. God can easily disguise "itself" as something else.
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Post by enigma on Sept 28, 2010 10:24:03 GMT -5
Actually, that all sounds pretty good to me so it's hard to find poking material, but I wanted to comment on this:
"I recently heard seekers talking about getting inspiration and all I see is we have no choice in this so why would motivation be a concern?"
If there is some kind of an angst driven concern, this can be looked at, but there's no problem with seeking inspiration/motivation. Willingness is key, and we're talking about the willingness to increase willingness. If you're suggesting that it just happens so why do anything, this may be a misconception of nonvolition. The seeking is also happening nonvolitionally and the one who questions it is the illusion.
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Post by karen on Sept 28, 2010 13:26:23 GMT -5
Hi unveilable, yeah there's not a lot of hooks in your post that I can find except that one that enigma mentioned; if one seeks motivation - how is that circumventing what is? (sorry if that came out wrong) You and I seem quite a bit alike. Lately, I've felt barren - like in a bad way but don't seem to mind which is weird. I'm restless, but cannot find anything I need to be doing often. Patterns are emerging that I intellectually identified years ago but are only now seemingly being dissolved (emotional stickiness). One extremely subtle thing I've noticed is the faker is gone. What I mean by that is that for as long as I can remember, there has been a layer between me and my experiences that would judge and seemingly invalidate my experiences - such as showing affection to my boyfriend as an example. It was like a doubter - doubting the authenticity of my feelings - constantly second guessing myself. That is gone (yet carelessness isn't there either). I think perhaps John Sherman's teaching (and my doing it) has helped. Perhaps not... But there is still the need to seek - but not any direction to which I pour into my practice of looking at the feeling of me. I still get angry, but it doesn't seem as deep. And while the layer between me and my experiences seems to be gone, the anger seems more distance oddly. And yet there still seems to be distance between me and my experiences yet no layer which is weird. It's hard to describe. I think another thing that has helped has been radical honesty; not radical honesty to others, but rather to myself. No more bull$hit. I've had quite enough of that thank you! |
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Post by unveilable on Sept 28, 2010 13:42:39 GMT -5
Ah interesting. I may have jumped to conclusions about their conversation. I will have to ask one of them. Other than that I didnt really understand what you just said lol. My confusion about motivation is why would anyone think about motivation when there is nothing else but Awareness to be motivated to do, see, open to or investigate? What else is there? Hmmm unless we are talking about motivation to dig deeper into our fears. THAT I relate to. What you said is sinking in now. Yes that needed a poke. Actually, that all sounds pretty good to me so it's hard to find poking material, but I wanted to comment on this: "I recently heard seekers talking about getting inspiration and all I see is we have no choice in this so why would motivation be a concern?" If there is some kind of an angst driven concern, this can be looked at, but there's no problem with seeking inspiration/motivation. Willingness is key, and we're talking about the willingness to increase willingness. If you're suggesting that it just happens so why do anything, this may be a misconception of nonvolition. The seeking is also happening nonvolitionally and the one who questions it is the illusion. |
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Post by karen on Sept 28, 2010 13:54:02 GMT -5
My confusion about motivation is why would anyone think about motivation when there is nothing else but Awareness to be motivated to do, see, open to or investigate? Why not be motivated? Does the ubiquity of awareness preclude motivation? If so, how? |
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Post by unveilable on Sept 28, 2010 13:54:37 GMT -5
Hi Karen. Nice to hear from you Lets hear it for no more BS! Though I have very long road ahead on the radical honesty front. Hi unveilable, yeah there's not a lot of hooks in your post that I can find except that one that enigma mentioned; if one seeks motivation - how is that circumventing what is? (sorry if that came out wrong) You and I seem quite a bit alike. Lately, I've felt barren - like in a bad way but don't seem to mind which is weird. I'm restless, but cannot find anything I need to be doing often. Patterns are emerging that I intellectually identified years ago but are only now seemingly being dissolved (emotional stickiness). One extremely subtle thing I've noticed is the faker is gone. What I mean by that is that for as long as I can remember, there has been a layer between me and my experiences that would judge and seemingly invalidate my experiences - such as showing affection to my boyfriend as an example. It was like a doubter - doubting the authenticity of my feelings - constantly second guessing myself. That is gone (yet carelessness isn't there either). I think perhaps John Sherman's teaching (and my doing it) has helped. Perhaps not... But there is still the need to seek - but not any direction to which I pour into my practice of looking at the feeling of me. I still get angry, but it doesn't seem as deep. And while the layer between me and my experiences seems to be gone, the anger seems more distance oddly. And yet there still seems to be distance between me and my experiences yet no layer which is weird. It's hard to describe. I think another thing that has helped has been radical honesty; not radical honesty to others, but rather to myself. No more bull$hit. I've had quite enough of that thank you! |
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Post by unveilable on Sept 28, 2010 14:07:19 GMT -5
Thanks. I like to call that doer the zombie. Its just starting to sink in that I cant stop the doer. There is a runner up to that truth that wants to (better) come out Jab! Jab! You can't stop doing stuff because it's not you doing that stuff. The "you" that you see doing things is one of the things. About your point: you are where you have always been. God can easily disguise "itself" as something else. |
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Post by unveilable on Sept 28, 2010 14:28:02 GMT -5
At the time of the conversation it seemed to me that we wanna go for this kind of thing or we don't so why worry so much. But now I relate to the idea of motivation to push beyond fear. My confusion about motivation is why would anyone think about motivation when there is nothing else but Awareness to be motivated to do, see, open to or investigate? Why not be motivated? Does the ubiquity of awareness preclude motivation? If so, how? |
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Post by souley on Sept 29, 2010 2:43:54 GMT -5
As far as a practice, I just check in throughout the day to see if I can notice what is happening around or in me. Im big on the Tolle pointer of feeling the inside of the body. Sometimes I journal for insight. Stuff comes up once in a while like a childhood issue thought resolved and I try to sit with it but I’m not very good at self inquiry. A recent example is when a teacher tricked me into looking at my sense of doership, felt a glimmer of something scary then automatically fled from this and could not get back to it for observation. Though books have lost value as a tool and good riddance I still read on occasion. Try doing "The Work" on things that you think need self inquiry. For example "He shouldn't have pushed me" as some kind of childhood trauma. It will definitely take you deeper. Your journey seems a lot like mine, more or less always there is this feeling of "not enough", "restlessness" etc and no clue what to do about it. It's a continuous frustration, and the need to do something about it, to find the right practice in this moment, to know "where I am right now" just adds to the frustration. I still don't know how to handle it. But it's becoming more and more like I know I don't control anything anyway, I don't make any decisions, so I can't possibly handle it any better or worse then I already am. I just wait to see what happens instead, which is pretty much the same thing as always, but it's less added frustration at least. |
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Post by vacant on Sept 29, 2010 5:07:56 GMT -5
At the time of the conversation it seemed to me that we wanna go for this kind of thing or we don't so why worry so much. But now I relate to the idea of motivation to push beyond fear. Why not be motivated? Does the ubiquity of awareness preclude motivation? If so, how? When i don't go for inspiration or motivation i can easily get blinded all day by the humdrum upstairs. Reading a few passages of a book on the commuting bus or sifting through the posts on this forum kinda wets my appetite, i cannot tell if that does anything to increase what Enigma calls willingness, but i can tell it awakes my longing (not always pleasant). Often it seems that longing is my only portal. |
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Post by unveilable on Sept 29, 2010 5:43:59 GMT -5
What I missed is that the mind in one person is convinced they need motivation while my mind is convinced the doer needs to end, I need to understand where I am...laundry list goes on. When it all comes down to it we all think we need something. The something takes on a different color by person but its all just the same sense of lack. The lack is at the whim of the mind/doer? Does that seem right  At the time of the conversation it seemed to me that we wanna go for this kind of thing or we don't so why worry so much. But now I relate to the idea of motivation to push beyond fear. When i don't go for inspiration or motivation i can easily get blinded all day by the humdrum upstairs. Reading a few passages of a book on the commuting bus or sifting through the posts on this forum kinda wets my appetite, i cannot tell if that does anything to increase what Enigma calls willingness, but i can tell it awakes my longing (not always pleasant). Often it seems that longing is my only portal. |
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I still read on occasion.
