Suffering and Neo-Advaita

[Reefs]

[tenka]

Could of picked a few holes in what he said, especially when he swaps Ollie for Consciousness. It's kinda just swapping identification as always said. Don't normally watch these type of things butt it did cover conversations I have had here and conversations of many other members. Had to agree in principle with what he said. Good watch.

[lolly]

The First Noble Truth of Buddhism is, "There is suffering", which is the opposite of what the questioner said. It's also true that suffering can end, but the cause of suffering is the cause of ego, so definitions become blurry at that point.

[Reefs]

As per Advaita catechism, the cause of (existential) suffering is ignorance. And so the end to (existential) suffering comes with the end of ignorance. Ignorance here means not knowing your true nature, who you really are. And so realizing your true nature, knowing who you really are, will be the end of (existential) suffering. In practical terms this usually means, (existential) suffering is the result of (mis)identification. Which means the ego (or body-mind) itself is not the cause of suffering, (mis)identification with the ego (or body-mind) is. Which means trying to get rid of the ego is missing the point and a sure way to prolong (existential) suffering indefinitely.

[lolly]

In Buddhism they say 'craving' is the cause of suffering, but ignorance is the fundamental problem. As you can see in the dependent origins, ignorance is the source of the delusion which is upheld by the volition brought on by craving. The way to end the cause is insight into the truth which eliminates delusion by overturning ignorance. The path is from ignorance to wisdom.

[laughter]

Only a few min in on Spria's vid at this point. It's absurd to deny that people suffer. "Why do people suffer?" is a complicated, multi-layered form of the existential question. Thinking about it can lead in one of two directions. One direction is the way of the stoic, in which the psychological component of suffering is recognized via the distinction between pain and suffering. This is a relative (non-existential), practical approach. It comes with benefits, which have the obvious limitation of potentially bringing the disregard of pain to unhealthy extremes. The other direction is to hypermind your way into "suffering isn't real".

[laughter]

Mar 24, 2024 12:51:56 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Now having seen it, I have to congratulate Rupert on his victory over that straw man in the intellectual debate. Everyone already knows what suffering is and why it happens. But by the same token, the current-day common-mind is one of a mistaken identity. At the root of all suffering is an illusion, a phantom, that does not exist. The nondual pointers need no explanation nor apology. Don't worry about hypothetical messengers with the incomplete insight of partial realization. Life will find its way.

[Reefs]

Mar 27, 2024 20:12:02 GMT -5 laughter said:

Now having seen it, I have to congratulate Rupert on his victory over that straw man in the intellectual debate. Everyone already knows what suffering is and why it happens. But by the same token, the current-day common-mind is one of a mistaken identity. At the root of all suffering is an illusion, a phantom, that does not exist. The nondual pointers need no explanation nor apology. Don't worry about hypothetical messengers with the incomplete insight of partial realization. Life will find its way.

Correct. From the impersonal perspective, the non-dual pointers are self-evident, so no explanation is necessary. And from the personal perspective, they can never be understood, so no explanation is possible.

[Gopal]

Mar 26, 2024 7:16:37 GMT -5 lolly said:

In Buddhism they say 'craving' is the cause of suffering, but ignorance is the fundamental problem. As you can see in the dependent origins, ignorance is the source of the delusion which is upheld by the volition brought on by craving. The way to end the cause is insight into the truth which eliminates delusion by overturning ignorance. The path is from ignorance to wisdom.

Buddhism is right. Chasing the desired reality other than what's happening here is the only way that brings the suffering in our life. If we are not chasing anything, then life doesn't present challenges for us to resolve (resolving the challenges is another chasing, and this chasing never come to an end) so no need to suffer.  

This knowledge doesn't come from reading the text, when we directly observe the truth, we know the chasing is actually creates the problem in our life.