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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2023 12:28:53 GMT -5
You know you are watching the movement of appearances, but I am saying those appearances are created by you as well. Then you raise a question as to whether I am able to create the pink elephant, my response is that we wouldn't be creating something that violates our common ground(For an example flying is another violation). That makes no sense . There is no common ground for the creator of appearances. There is no niche club rules where we can only create grey elephants. Consciousness can't receive appearance from outside. It is knowing something within itself. So you can not give the appearance to consciousness. So no outer world. If there is no outerworld then what's appearing us is also created by us .
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Post by tenka on Sept 22, 2023 14:09:31 GMT -5
That makes no sense . There is no common ground for the creator of appearances. There is no niche club rules where we can only create grey elephants. Consciousness can't receive appearance from outside. It is knowing something within itself. So you can not give the appearance to consciousness. So no outer world. If there is no outerworld then what's appearing us is also created by us . Again that makes no sense. You said you couldn't create an appearance of a pink elephant that violates common ground. It has nowt to do with inner or outer worlds.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 22, 2023 16:04:22 GMT -5
Consciousness can't receive appearance from outside. It is knowing something within itself. So you can not give the appearance to consciousness. So no outer world. If there is no outerworld then what's appearing us is also created by us . Again that makes no sense. You said you couldn't create an appearance of a pink elephant that violates common ground. It has nowt to do with inner or outer worlds. The "outer" is what you perceive through your five physical senses. The "inner" is what you perceive through your inner senses. The "outer self" is the part of you that deals with the "outer". The "inner self" is the part of you that deals with the "inner". The "outer", that your "outer self" perceives, is created by your subconscious based on what your "inner self" perceives from the "inner", according to your beliefs (conscious beliefs a.k.a. your assumptions, and unconscious beliefs a.k.a. your truths). Creating a pink elephant in the "outer" means that your "outer self" perceives a pink elephant. There is no objective pink elephant, because there is no single objective "outer". There are as many not-identical "outers" as there are observers. Even more, observers are adhering to different realities, and their subconsciouses create "outers" that to some degree agree (not-identical) with each other only momentarily. You can, and do move among realities, unconsciously, according to your choices, beliefs, evolvement, evolvement needs, ... "Makes no sense" means that your "outer self" intellectual response finds irreconcilable contradictions in its perception of its own "outer". Nothing more. A step further is to attempt intuitive responses to your perceptions. That will peel off your limiting beliefs, and add to your growth.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 22, 2023 18:25:53 GMT -5
Again that makes no sense. You said you couldn't create an appearance of a pink elephant that violates common ground. It has nowt to do with inner or outer worlds. The "outer" is what you perceive through your five physical senses. The "inner" is what you perceive through your inner senses. The "outer self" is the part of you that deals with the "outer". The "inner self" is the part of you that deals with the "inner". The "outer", that your "outer self" perceives, is created by your subconscious based on what your "inner self" perceives from the "inner", according to your beliefs (conscious beliefs a.k.a. your assumptions, and unconscious beliefs a.k.a. your truths). Creating a pink elephant in the "outer" means that your "outer self" perceives a pink elephant. There is no objective pink elephant, because there is no single objective "outer". There are as many not-identical "outers" as there are observers. Even more, observers are adhering to different realities, and their subconsciouses create "outers" that to some degree agree (not-identical) with each other only momentarily. You can, and do move among realities, unconsciously, according to your choices, beliefs, evolvement, evolvement needs, ... "Makes no sense" means that your "outer self" intellectual response finds irreconcilable contradictions in its perception of its own "outer". Nothing more. A step further is to attempt intuitive responses to your perceptions. That will peel off your limiting beliefs, and add to your growth. Yes. So I don't understand your problem with this.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 22, 2023 18:35:02 GMT -5
The "outer" is what you perceive through your five physical senses. The "inner" is what you perceive through your inner senses. The "outer self" is the part of you that deals with the "outer". The "inner self" is the part of you that deals with the "inner". The "outer", that your "outer self" perceives, is created by your subconscious based on what your "inner self" perceives from the "inner", according to your beliefs (conscious beliefs a.k.a. your assumptions, and unconscious beliefs a.k.a. your truths). Creating a pink elephant in the "outer" means that your "outer self" perceives a pink elephant. There is no objective pink elephant, because there is no single objective "outer". There are as many not-identical "outers" as there are observers. Even more, observers are adhering to different realities, and their subconsciouses create "outers" that to some degree agree (not-identical) with each other only momentarily. You can, and do move among realities, unconsciously, according to your choices, beliefs, evolvement, evolvement needs, ... "Makes no sense" means that your "outer self" intellectual response finds irreconcilable contradictions in its perception of its own "outer". Nothing more. A step further is to attempt intuitive responses to your perceptions. That will peel off your limiting beliefs, and add to your growth. Yes. So I don't understand your problem with this. Explain how what I wrote relates to that video, picture, or your view of reality. I think they are incompatible.
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Post by tenka on Sept 23, 2023 7:45:23 GMT -5
Again that makes no sense. You said you couldn't create an appearance of a pink elephant that violates common ground. It has nowt to do with inner or outer worlds. The "outer" is what you perceive through your five physical senses. The "inner" is what you perceive through your inner senses. The "outer self" is the part of you that deals with the "outer". The "inner self" is the part of you that deals with the "inner". The "outer", that your "outer self" perceives, is created by your subconscious based on what your "inner self" perceives from the "inner", according to your beliefs (conscious beliefs a.k.a. your assumptions, and unconscious beliefs a.k.a. your truths). Creating a pink elephant in the "outer" means that your "outer self" perceives a pink elephant. There is no objective pink elephant, because there is no single objective "outer". There are as many not-identical "outers" as there are observers. Even more, observers are adhering to different realities, and their subconsciouses create "outers" that to some degree agree (not-identical) with each other only momentarily. You can, and do move among realities, unconsciously, according to your choices, beliefs, evolvement, evolvement needs, ... "Makes no sense" means that your "outer self" intellectual response finds irreconcilable contradictions in its perception of its own "outer". Nothing more. A step further is to attempt intuitive responses to your perceptions. That will peel off your limiting beliefs, and add to your growth. Gopal doesn't believe in Inner and Outer worlds. He believes creation = perception, but can only create what is already here per se. He can't create as a creator something like a pink elephant. He can't because a pink elephant violates common ground. The explanation of that not making sense was answered in regards to Inner and outer worlds. Based upon his own beliefs, it makes no sense. There is no golden rule as a creator through perception of that which denies one the creative capacity to create something that isn't already here. Your post doesn't reflect any of this. You needed to know this before speaking on Gopal's behalf.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 23, 2023 12:36:01 GMT -5
The "outer" is what you perceive through your five physical senses. The "inner" is what you perceive through your inner senses. The "outer self" is the part of you that deals with the "outer". The "inner self" is the part of you that deals with the "inner". The "outer", that your "outer self" perceives, is created by your subconscious based on what your "inner self" perceives from the "inner", according to your beliefs (conscious beliefs a.k.a. your assumptions, and unconscious beliefs a.k.a. your truths). Creating a pink elephant in the "outer" means that your "outer self" perceives a pink elephant. There is no objective pink elephant, because there is no single objective "outer". There are as many not-identical "outers" as there are observers. Even more, observers are adhering to different realities, and their subconsciouses create "outers" that to some degree agree (not-identical) with each other only momentarily. You can, and do move among realities, unconsciously, according to your choices, beliefs, evolvement, evolvement needs, ... "Makes no sense" means that your "outer self" intellectual response finds irreconcilable contradictions in its perception of its own "outer". Nothing more. A step further is to attempt intuitive responses to your perceptions. That will peel off your limiting beliefs, and add to your growth. Gopal doesn't believe in Inner and Outer worlds. He believes creation = perception, but can only create what is already here per se. He can't create as a creator something like a pink elephant. He can't because a pink elephant violates common ground. The explanation of that not making sense was answered in regards to Inner and outer worlds. Based upon his own beliefs, it makes no sense. There is no golden rule as a creator through perception of that which denies one the creative capacity to create something that isn't already here. Your post doesn't reflect any of this. You needed to know this before speaking on Gopal's behalf. I spoke only on my behalf.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 23, 2023 14:35:44 GMT -5
RANGOON, Burma (AP) — Burma says it has found a rare, white elephant in the jungles of the western Ayeyarwaddy region. Forestry official Tun Tun Oo says the 7-year-old female was captured by his department on Friday, six weeks after it was initially spotted in a reserve in Pathein township. "We had to be careful," he said. "It's wild. We didn't want the elephant or the forestry department officials to get hurt." White elephants, actually albinos, have for centuries been revered in Burma, Thailand, Laos and other Asian nations. Often pinkish in color, with fair eyelashes and toenails, the animals were normally kept and pampered by monarchs as a symbol of royal power and prosperity — and many people still believe they bring good luck to the country. Burma has eight white elephants in captivity, most from the Ayeyarwaddy region. Five are now in the zoo in the capital, Naypyitaw, and three in Rangoon. According to The World Wildlife Fund, there are between 25,600 and 32,750 Asian elephants remaining in the wild. Only males carry tusks and are the exclusive victims of poaching for their ivory. The capture of wild elephants for domestic use has become a threat to wild populations. India, Vietnam, and Burma have banned capture in order to conserve their wild herds, but in Burma elephants are still caught each year for the timber industry or the illegal wildlife trade, the WWF says.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2023 21:13:03 GMT -5
Consciousness can't receive appearance from outside. It is knowing something within itself. So you can not give the appearance to consciousness. So no outer world. If there is no outerworld then what's appearing us is also created by us . Again that makes no sense. You said you couldn't create an appearance of a pink elephant that violates common ground. It has nowt to do with inner or outer worlds. I was explaining as to why there is no outer world. If there is no outer world, then what you are looking at is arising out of yourself. In this case, you are the creator of the appearance that you are looking at. But what I was saying earlier was, even though you are a creator, you wouldn't be creating pink elephant to make sure your experience is stable.
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Post by lolly on Sept 23, 2023 21:36:36 GMT -5
Again that makes no sense. You said you couldn't create an appearance of a pink elephant that violates common ground. It has nowt to do with inner or outer worlds. I was explaining as to why there is no outer world. If there is no outer world, then what you are looking at is arising out of yourself. In this case, you are the creator of the appearance that you are looking at. But what I was saying earlier was, even though you are a creator, you wouldn't be creating pink elephant to make sure your experience is stable. It's just creation and perception are simultaneous, so you can't say "I will perceive a pink elephant" and then it happens. It's either already happening or it's not.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 23, 2023 22:05:22 GMT -5
I was explaining as to why there is no outer world. If there is no outer world, then what you are looking at is arising out of yourself. In this case, you are the creator of the appearance that you are looking at. But what I was saying earlier was, even though you are a creator, you wouldn't be creating pink elephant to make sure your experience is stable. It's just creation and perception are simultaneous, so you can't say "I will perceive a pink elephant" and then it happens. It's either already happening or it's not. I guess that you meant something else by that, than what I mean. When you say "I will ...", what will happen or not is already established, and you just get conscious about it with a delay manifested in your perception of the physical world. When I ask a question to my inner guide, most of the time I get the reply before finishing to formulate my question. It is like I become conscious of what I want to ask with some delay. It is like I become conscious of a dialogue that happens elsewhere, at another level, and there is some transmission or processing delay until I become aware of it. The intent happens before formulation, before you become conscious of it, and that is what and when creates your physical-reality. You become aware of the physical-reality after the fact. EDIT: - In the "physical-reality is like a video-game" analogy, the game is played at player level, not at game-character level.
- In my view, "creation and perception are simultaneous" is incorrect.
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Post by lolly on Sept 24, 2023 3:36:14 GMT -5
It's just creation and perception are simultaneous, so you can't say "I will perceive a pink elephant" and then it happens. It's either already happening or it's not. I guess that you meant something else by that, than what I mean. When you say "I will ...", what will happen or not is already established, and you just get conscious about it with a delay manifested in your perception of the physical world. When I ask a question to my inner guide, most of the time I get the reply before finishing to formulate my question. It is like I become conscious of what I want to ask with some delay. It is like I become conscious of a dialogue that happens elsewhere, at another level, and there is some transmission or processing delay until I become aware of it. The intent happens before formulation, before you become conscious of it, and that is what and when creates your physical-reality. You become aware of the physical-reality after the fact. EDIT: - In the "physical-reality is like a video-game" analogy, the game is played at player level, not at game-character level.
- In my view, "creation and perception are simultaneous" is incorrect.
You can't be aware of what happened or what will happen, you can only be aware of what happens now. Since 'this' is 'already here' intent is always future based and is therefore a side effect of reactive tendencies. However, on a more sublime level, intent is more nuanced than we first suppose because will exerted through reactivity is definitively unintentional. On the other hand, one can have 'good intent' such as love and compassion without any volitional urge to make 'This' other than it is.
Hencewhy we meditate by 'just observing' having removed reactive tendencies from the mind and thereby ceased to exert volition upon the world. That's like you're just aware of what's happening anyway. However that is done with intent, and even determination, so the intent to cease volition isn't a contradiction in terms, nor is unintentional exertion of will.
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Post by lolly on Sept 24, 2023 3:41:44 GMT -5
elephant
Literally a pink 'elephant'
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Post by tenka on Sept 24, 2023 6:34:51 GMT -5
Gopal doesn't believe in Inner and Outer worlds. He believes creation = perception, but can only create what is already here per se. He can't create as a creator something like a pink elephant. He can't because a pink elephant violates common ground. The explanation of that not making sense was answered in regards to Inner and outer worlds. Based upon his own beliefs, it makes no sense. There is no golden rule as a creator through perception of that which denies one the creative capacity to create something that isn't already here. Your post doesn't reflect any of this. You needed to know this before speaking on Gopal's behalf. I spoke only on my behalf. Ok no worries .. I am not not sure why you felt the need to say what you did ..
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Post by tenka on Sept 24, 2023 6:43:43 GMT -5
Again that makes no sense. You said you couldn't create an appearance of a pink elephant that violates common ground. It has nowt to do with inner or outer worlds. I was explaining as to why there is no outer world. If there is no outer world, then what you are looking at is arising out of yourself. In this case, you are the creator of the appearance that you are looking at. But what I was saying earlier was, even though you are a creator, you wouldn't be creating pink elephant to make sure your experience is stable. Well there is a picture of a rare pink elephant, so how does that fit in with your stable experience? You see many perceive things that are not common to folk. In these instances this would violate your so called common ground. It's simply not true that you can't create certain appearances based upon your premise. I have seem plenty of extra dimensional appearances that would perhaps blow peoples minds .. You are just saying what you are saying simply because you can't create certain appearances..
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