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Post by enigma on Jul 31, 2019 19:13:36 GMT -5
Advaita Vedanta does not reject the world and sages see the world as the divine creation. Most are fully engaged with it in helping others. There are some who prefer the recluse life but most do not. Correct. Nobody rejects the world or thinks of creation as anything but divine. As usual, it seems like we're not getting the message across.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 19:29:51 GMT -5
Nobody rejects the world or thinks of creation as anything but divine. As usual, it seems like we're not getting the message across. Yeah. It's interesting how seeing it all as akin to a dream/story, continuously gets conflated with rejection and denigration....which seems to indicate that loving/embracing life, seeing it all as divine, somehow hinges upon taking it all to be more than an appearance in consciousness.
I guess, 'an appearance in consciousness' is somehow deemed not valid/substantial enough to warrant loving embrace or divinity...? Some sort of greater substance must be assigned before it can be 'divine'...?
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Post by enigma on Jul 31, 2019 19:33:30 GMT -5
I know. You were mostly jesting, but, there does seem to be a sense on your part of trying to poke holes in the point that regardless of how dire appearances may be, the seeing of fundamental perfection abides....? I get the sense you are to some degree, scoffing...? Indeed. My life is not devoid of such 'poignant' events, I assure you. In the past 5 yrs....Both children dx'd with a fatal genetic disease....mom with Alzheimers.... ![:-S](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wavey.png) ....the unfolding story itself is not devoid of 'issues,' but still.... Agreed and understood. Is that even possible? I say it's not. And despite what you see happening here with me, I remain abidingly aware of that. I fully agree with what you say above. Ultimately, I cannot know re: the others I'm conversing with. As difficult as it may be to accept, the driving interest behind my engagement here and behind most of my spiritual writings these days, is to talk about what is actually True....what can actually be known. A juxtaposing view is part and parcel of pointing beyond it. It appears that divergent opinion is often an important component in terms of clarifying talking points about what is Truth. Absent a point of view that is 'in the story' there is no pointing 'beyond the story.' The two, as appearances, as happenings, are indeed correlated, but again, in clarity it's seen that correlation does not equal causation. I'm fond of the figs and E persons. I admire your spunk and persistence. Never a fan of you guys being banned, or anyone else. I have NEVER reported a post. I never will. I like your response. And I actually agree with the suggestion that cause and effect are perceptions rather than actualities. I tend to agree with E's version of events. But I'm still perplexed about its application in the everyday and believe life, what happens, is significant, hence that appearance of cause and effect is valuable. My skepticism about cause and effect is based on my studies of QM, not while hitting a light switch or any sort of realization, but that's another topic altogether. You are experiencing on a personal level, and creating on an impersonal level. I'm uncertain what it means to say the appearance of cause/effect is valuable.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 19:40:23 GMT -5
I'm fond of the figs and E persons. I admire your spunk and persistence. Never a fan of you guys being banned, or anyone else. I have NEVER reported a post. I never will. I like your response. And I actually agree with the suggestion that cause and effect are perceptions rather than actualities. I tend to agree with E's version of events. But I'm still perplexed about its application in the everyday and believe life, what happens, is significant, hence that appearance of cause and effect is valuable. My skepticism about cause and effect is based on my studies of QM, not while hitting a light switch or any sort of realization, but that's another topic altogether. You are experiencing on a personal level, and creating on an impersonal level. I'm uncertain what it means to say the appearance of cause/effect is valuable. He is asking what's the use of knowing the illusion of cause and effort.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 31, 2019 20:24:04 GMT -5
So, you agree that "Most" sages are fully engaged in helping others...and "most" do not enjoy a reclusive life.
But don't you also say that the behavioral manifestations of sages cannot be predicted?
And, In terms of this 'full engagement in helping others' what precisely does that entail? Are you talking about a general countenance towards being helpful/kind where circumstance arises for such, or are you talking a particular, specific vocation/path of 'helping others' ? As I see it, 'sage-hood' does indeed result in a general countenance towards being helpful/supportive of fellow man in the face of help needed, but that can manifest in a myriad of ways, one need not take on a specific 'life-plan' per se ' nor commit to a specific vocation of helping others. That willingness to be of help is really just part and parcel of the absence of resistance....of flowing along with what presents....of loving life in it's totality.
But I don't see a sage any less so if he/she prefers solitude over socializing. Those types of personal preferences/personality traits continue post SR.
Correct.
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Post by satchitananda on Jul 31, 2019 21:13:49 GMT -5
I'm not joking around now figs, but I'm starting to get concerned about what you are writing. This is not enlightened thinking. For those who have realized, the personality is very stable and totally integrated but what I'm increasingly hearing from you sounds like personality disassociation. It's a bit worrying. I'm being serious now because I can feel an obsessiveness about it. I think you need to get grounded. Advaita Vedanta does not reject the world and sages see the world as the divine creation. Most are fully engaged with it in helping others. There are some who prefer the recluse life but most do not. What you are saying recently about everything being an illusion is disassociative and that's of concern because it doesn't come from peace and silence but from a kind of disturbed thinking. There is a kind of mania in your posts now. I'm just trying to be honest with you. Could you indicate what I specifically said there that has you worried about 'personality disassociation'? To hesitate about accepting medical advice and treatment because the body is just an illusion or not be concerned about climate change because everything is just an appearance in Consciousness is not healthy enlightened thinking. This is when thinking about non-duality becomes potentially dangerous unless there is a corresponding direct experience of the Self which integrates everything including personality and the world. But such is your ignorance that you cannot even accept a structured approach to practice which you made clear in the other thread because for you there are no rules whatsoever. You are lost in a cloud where nothing is real for you. So throw your garbage in the street and stop feeding your kids and let them starve to death because they are just appearances in Consciousness. Neglect your body if it gets sick because it's just an illusion. This is insanity and it has nothing to do with the teachings of traditional non-duality which accepts the world and the personal.
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Post by laughter on Jul 31, 2019 21:19:45 GMT -5
Could you indicate what I specifically said there that has you worried about 'personality disassociation'? To hesitate about accepting medical advice and treatment because the body is just an illusion or not be concerned about climate change because everything is just an appearance in Consciousness is not healthy enlightened thinking. This is when thinking about non-duality becomes potentially dangerous unless there is a corresponding direct experience of the Self which integrates everything including personality and the world. But such is your ignorance that you cannot even accept a structured approach to practice which you made clear in the other thread because for you there are no rules whatsoever. You are lost in a cloud where nothing is real for you. So throw your garbage in the street and stop feeding your kids and let them starve to death because they are just appearances in Consciousness. Neglect your body if it gets sick because it's just an illusion. This is insanity and it has nothing to do with the teachings of traditional non-duality which accepts the world and the personal. (** wipes stray spittle off of face **) "heh heh why even eat might as well hold your breath because it's all an illusion heh heh"
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Post by laughter on Jul 31, 2019 21:23:43 GMT -5
Advaita Vedanta does not reject the world and sages see the world as the divine creation. Most are fully engaged with it in helping others. There are some who prefer the recluse life but most do not. Correct. But for all you really know there are sages who've never let on to anyone. Have you taken a poll among the Sages who've been confirmed and added to the Sage Registry? ![](https://usefulshortcuts.com/imgs/yahoo-smileys/7.gif)
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Post by satchitananda on Jul 31, 2019 21:55:57 GMT -5
Nobody rejects the world or thinks of creation as anything but divine. As usual, it seems like we're not getting the message across. Your message is confused and lacking in Clarity because it's only based on a conceptual nondual belief system.
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Post by satchitananda on Jul 31, 2019 22:01:02 GMT -5
"heh heh why even eat might as well hold your breath because it's all an illusion heh heh" Just let the breathing continue because it's just an appearance in consciousness right, and if you stop breathing that too will be just an appearance in consciousness. My post is a complete illusion so never mind. It all good. Lickgurt Fortin zaplock wellfun.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 22:11:31 GMT -5
I'm fond of the figs and E persons. I admire your spunk and persistence. Never a fan of you guys being banned, or anyone else. I have NEVER reported a post. I never will. I like your response. And I actually agree with the suggestion that cause and effect are perceptions rather than actualities. I tend to agree with E's version of events. But I'm still perplexed about its application in the everyday and believe life, what happens, is significant, hence that appearance of cause and effect is valuable. My skepticism about cause and effect is based on my studies of QM, not while hitting a light switch or any sort of realization, but that's another topic altogether. Sure it is. It's an integral facet of the unfolding story.
I totally get how it may seem as though a sort of 'cognitive dissonance' is happening for the one who says he sees cause/effect is just an illusion, yet there he is, typing away in full expectation that his keystrokes are going to show up on the screen.
The best way I can explain is that the seeing that it's illusive is inextricably tied to the seeing that it's all an appearance arising in consciousness.....one singular unified movement. Nothing is separate, nothing exists/appears independent of anything else.
This thing, happening before that, doing this and then that happening, doing this and expecting that to happen, all of that continues to arise in experience, but the transcendent view reveals that the true cause/catalyst to anything that happens/appears, lies fundamental, 'beyond' experience.
Thus, it's hard to get too tied into causal story-lines. For example; This genetic medical issue in my family...I take the 'facts' with a grain of salt....I might go along with a suggested treatment if there is resonance in the moment it presents, but I see far too clearly that anything is possible and a positive outcome is not 'dependent' upon adhering to any particular prescribed treatment. If I did accept treatment, on the surface of things I may speak about it as something I am doing to slow down progression, however, the bigger/transcendent picture will loom larger....the seeing that the condition, the treatment, the resonance with that, and the slowing of progression/or not, is all inextricably One....a singular movement. No one thing/happening within that equation, actually (fundamentally) causing the other.
I've been thinking what to say all day, but I don't have words. It's got to be hard. I can't imagine how hard. I have a friend who has CF. I've learned a lot from her about courage. It's heartening to see how she faces every day with such zest. I wish you and your family the best. All I can do is pray.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 22:12:17 GMT -5
To hesitate about accepting medical advice and treatment because the body is just an illusionDid I actually say that? Please, go back and read my words. You have a bad habit of reading in things that are not there and failing to read/acknowledge stuff that is. I don't say 'the body is just an illusion,' I say the body is an appearance within consciousness. A body does actually appear....it's not one of those appearances that needs to get seen through as in snake to rope, like separation, volition, cause/effect, an objective world. Those are what I would reference as 'illusions' that get seen through in SR. I take medical advice and treatments with a grain of salt as I am all too aware that anything is possible...that limitation only appears to be the case.....that nothing happening within the dream actually causes a particular outcome. I'm content to trust and allow interest, resonance, intuition to lead the way. And, that might include traditional medical treatments. Momentary acknowledgements of/caring about environmental conditions does arise and at times with that a sense of sadness, compassion, however, ongoing worry/fretting over imagined outcomes, a deep sense of needing to embark upon specific action plans to change the world so that I can feel better, does not. I don't see how an ongoing state of restlessness regarding the appearing world, how worrying/fretting about future outcomes regarding the world, could arise alongside abidance in Being. Worrying and fretting, an ongoing state of concern means abidance in mind. On that note, how is it Satchi that you remain concerned about climate change post destruction of mind? (I assume from your line of questioning here that you are in a state of concern regarding the environment...?) Ah, yes...that's what's really behind this latest, particularly deep jab. I've noticed You react strongly when your meditation teachings are challenged. The very fact that I do not do so, should be testament for you, that the seeing of something as 'an appearance in consciousness' is not grounds for therefore, dismissing or ignoring it. Yes, my children are appearances in consciousness....and absolutely awe-insiring, amazing, beautiful, incredible appearances they are. I live in a state of deep gratitude every day for the experience of motherhood. Again, that's not happening. I spent a rather blissful half hour this morning doing yoga with Solfeggio tones and followed up with a fresh fruit smoothie. I then colored my hair....had a hot shower with loofa scrub.....slathered on lavender oil afterwards. ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png) The body is not disregarded, not ignored, not denigrated in the seeing that it is an appearance in consciousness. I just don't know where you are getting this idea. Where have I said anything at all about not 'accepting' the world and the personal? Fact is, I've said nothing like that. You have somehow mistakingly read that in. For the umpteenth time: Seeing the world, the body, others, all conditions, as appearances in consciousness DOES NOT equal the end of interest in them, does not equal ignoring, dismissing, denigration. It is you who is equating 'an appearance in consciousness' with 'not worthy of caring about.' Why?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 22:14:26 GMT -5
But for all you really know there are sages who've never let on to anyone. Have you taken a poll among the Sages who've been confirmed and added to the Sage Registry? ![](https://usefulshortcuts.com/imgs/yahoo-smileys/7.gif)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 22:20:09 GMT -5
I'm fond of the figs and E persons. I admire your spunk and persistence. Never a fan of you guys being banned, or anyone else. I have NEVER reported a post. I never will. I like your response. And I actually agree with the suggestion that cause and effect are perceptions rather than actualities. I tend to agree with E's version of events. But I'm still perplexed about its application in the everyday and believe life, what happens, is significant, hence that appearance of cause and effect is valuable. My skepticism about cause and effect is based on my studies of QM, not while hitting a light switch or any sort of realization, but that's another topic altogether. You are experiencing on a personal level, and creating on an impersonal level. I'm uncertain what it means to say the appearance of cause/effect is valuable. It has to do with reverence and faith. Reverence for this life and all that is in it and faith that we'll all discover peace. For me there's no peace in detaching from life, but there is in surrender and acceptance.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 22:31:38 GMT -5
I'm fond of the figs and E persons. I admire your spunk and persistence. Never a fan of you guys being banned, or anyone else. I have NEVER reported a post. I never will. I like your response. And I actually agree with the suggestion that cause and effect are perceptions rather than actualities. I tend to agree with E's version of events. But I'm still perplexed about its application in the everyday and believe life, what happens, is significant, hence that appearance of cause and effect is valuable. My skepticism about cause and effect is based on my studies of QM, not while hitting a light switch or any sort of realization, but that's another topic altogether. It's problematic we search answer because we believe in cause and effect. Searching continue to happen until we notice the illusion of that I don't think I'm searching anymore. QM is more like a hobby for me. It's fun, like a giant puzzle. Everyone believes in cause and effect. You wouldn't post here otherwise. There would be no forum. Yet there is and you post. The truth has nothing to do with beliefs, however.
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