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Post by lopezcabellero on May 10, 2019 14:16:44 GMT -5
The human mind is conditioned along experiential lines. We observe conditioning from beyond conditioning, as consciousness transcends the conditioning within itself.
People can be conditioned to think consciously and unconsciously. To unconsciously think goes far deeper than simply thinking within the grips of thought identification, and also includes thinking within the presence of emotional injury, blocked desires and passions, irrational fears, chemical addiction, personality addiction, the list goes on and on.
Self realization is sold as the cure for suffering, but to the extent any realization is not followed by or inclusive of a healing on the level of mind, a degree of dissonance will follow for the individual, or for the externalized personality disorder, everybody around the individual. The great Carl Jung went as far to say without the 'spiritual experience', a neurotic mind may well be beyond the potential for healing. And yet not even Tolle is saying a vortex experience is a one stop shop to fix self inflicted or received injury.
And so I would like to speak for a moment on integration. To integrate a oneness realization on the level of conditioning, on the level of being the all appearing as a separate one. Consciousness literally is the appearing condition of now in consciousness. This appearance, referenced now, conditions the human mind to think/feel/experience/behave, and we are asking at what point this thinking/feeling/experiencing/behaving could be unconscious, which isn't to say on the ultimate level, other than Consciousness consciousnessing, but on the relative level transpiring in a sort of dream like state, as if the individual is not the all and as if the idea of self need to be protected, enhanced, or maintained. Not to say self protection, improvement, or survival are implicitly unconscious, but that identification with separation implicitly is. One cannot consciously believe in what isn't true, so why does the human mind distort the truth for the sake of self?
This type of question goes far beyond a Who Am I inquiry and cuts to the very core of in-authenticity. How can society or the collective embrace the truth if they are completely unconscious of what the truth is, and are in contrast vested in and divided by false ideas peddled through generations unfounded in logic, lacking in reason, but rather constructed upon blind faith. One man's blind faith is another man's cloaking spirit, and so safety is associated with being controlled and told what to do, perhaps in the heinous attempt to re-create childhood familiarity, or maybe worse, because some of the most intelligent and powerful people are so far removed from responsibility yet so deeply engraved by the fruits of exploitation, that where most people look for help, like man made law or the religious institutions, are themselves designed to remove the impulse to rectify the problem.
Lacking, obviously, is the individual connection with its creative faculties, the absence of the disconnection experienced through unconscious thinking/feeling/experiencing/behaving. Sometimes an absence means more than a presence. In this context, experientially speaking, maybe always.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 10:03:51 GMT -5
I've talk to you before. You went by a different name. Is Lopez Caballero your real name?
I think I hear what you are saying. To me the mind is a simple instrument that operates on the basis of one principle. To be happy avoid what causes pain and repeat what feels good. Some of that is conscious, some of it isn't, but you can see how that can lead to hell. Conditioning is the habituation of behavior and some times that works against the organism, behavior at least initially driven by that principle I mentioned.
For me meditation makes this conditioning apparent. When it is unconscious observing the thought stream often brings things it to the surface. In advaita vedanta vernacular, I would say this conditioning are vasanas.
When you realize that you are not a separate self, these vasanas no longer hold sway. But it is possible to allow them to continue functioning.
However it is also possible to be fooled by the false self.
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Post by lopezcabellero on May 12, 2019 17:47:16 GMT -5
I've talk to you before. You went by a different name. Is Lopez Caballero your real name? I think I hear what you are saying. To me the mind is a simple instrument that operates on the basis of one principle. To be happy avoid what causes pain and repeat what feels good. Some of that is conscious, some of it isn't, but you can see how that can lead to hell. Conditioning is the habituation of behavior and some times that works against the organism, behavior at least initially driven by that principle I mentioned. For me meditation makes this conditioning apparent. When it is unconscious observing the thought stream often brings things it to the surface. In advaita vedanta vernacular, I would say this conditioning are vasanas. When you realize that you are not a separate self, these vasanas no longer hold sway. But it is possible to allow them to continue functioning. However it is also possible to be fooled by the false self. Yes, I was under preciocho recently, and jasonl prior to. I lost access to both accounts after a recent laptop transition. Lopez was supposed to be a burner account but low and behold, it's all I have left. I actually got the name off a backpack I bought in Mexico for 40 pesos that's managed to hold up over the last few years. As far as the mind: I basically concur in the unconscious state pain avoidance is a primary driving force. But there are people who find pleasure in pain or watching others in pain, so the line isn't always clear. The principle you mentioned, seeking pleasure to avoid pain, is also about seeking compensation to avoid the truth, and I don't mean the transcendent truth of one consciousness, but the relative truth of being a person that can experience good and bad things. Pain can be mind's conceptualization that what is happening shouldn't happen and therefore isn't or didn't. Coupled to a society where addiction is masqueraded as happiness and it's no wonder that the human condition is what it is. You mentioned in meditation that things come to the surface in meditation. Can you expand on that? If you realize you are not a separate self, then you also realize there is no one present to allow or disallow a vasana, which is interesting. If there is still someone allowing a vasana to hold sway, then we can see the vasana operating as a subpersonality within the structure of the mind, with the dominant personality being the person that doesn't pursue vasanas, operating under the guise of being the realized one consciousness. Addictions are driven unconsciously. Meaning, the compulsion to pursue a vasana is intricately linked to the false self, components of which can be made unconscious due to an association with pain, shame, guilt, inadequacy, fear, terror, and even anger. In this way, I wouldn't call the false self the false self, but rather the apparent self because it's apparently you but isn't you. Furthermore, the apparent self can be compartmentalized, and compensated for, and one of the most common compensatory belief structures is the one in which the mind actually is the one consciousness to which it is appearing within and manifesting as. Seeing through this belief structure requires consciousness of the dynamics which formulated it, which will obviously involve a willingness to experience things there was once an aversion to, particularly the experience of being human. In this way, the subpersonality of the vasana is not being blocked and allowed to run or not run (by the mind itself, which is none other than the vasana program), but integrated into consciousness through willingness to be human, which in turn leads to increased potential to pursue passions and desires. The issue with seeing through the idea of the universe being one, and you being that one, is that within a certain context, it's true. However, it's true only as a pointer. It's likewise true that within a certain context you are consciousness manifesting as a person among many others. That person manifests along an experiential line, and the issues which lead to vasanas have to do with how mind manipulates that line, without consciousness of what it's doing, which is almost the same as saying how the collective engine manipulates the person. Very fascinating stuff! |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 21:18:58 GMT -5
I've talk to you before. You went by a different name. Is Lopez Caballero your real name? I think I hear what you are saying. To me the mind is a simple instrument that operates on the basis of one principle. To be happy avoid what causes pain and repeat what feels good. Some of that is conscious, some of it isn't, but you can see how that can lead to hell. Conditioning is the habituation of behavior and some times that works against the organism, behavior at least initially driven by that principle I mentioned. For me meditation makes this conditioning apparent. When it is unconscious observing the thought stream often brings things it to the surface. In advaita vedanta vernacular, I would say this conditioning are vasanas. When you realize that you are not a separate self, these vasanas no longer hold sway. But it is possible to allow them to continue functioning. However it is also possible to be fooled by the false self. Yes, I was under preciocho recently, and jasonl prior to. I lost access to both accounts after a recent laptop transition. Lopez was supposed to be a burner account but low and behold, it's all I have left. I actually got the name off a backpack I bought in Mexico for 40 pesos that's managed to hold up over the last few years. As far as the mind: I basically concur in the unconscious state pain avoidance is a primary driving force. But there are people who find pleasure in pain or watching others in pain, so the line isn't always clear. The principle you mentioned, seeking pleasure to avoid pain, is also about seeking compensation to avoid the truth, and I don't mean the transcendent truth of one consciousness, but the relative truth of being a person that can experience good and bad things. Pain can be mind's conceptualization that what is happening shouldn't happen and therefore isn't or didn't. Coupled to a society where addiction is masqueraded as happiness and it's no wonder that the human condition is what it is. You mentioned in meditation that things come to the surface in meditation. Can you expand on that? If you realize you are not a separate self, then you also realize there is no one present to allow or disallow a vasana, which is interesting. If there is still someone allowing a vasana to hold sway, then we can see the vasana operating as a subpersonality within the structure of the mind, with the dominant personality being the person that doesn't pursue vasanas, operating under the guise of being the realized one consciousness. Addictions are driven unconsciously. Meaning, the compulsion to pursue a vasana is intricately linked to the false self, components of which can be made unconscious due to an association with pain, shame, guilt, inadequacy, fear, terror, and even anger. In this way, I wouldn't call the false self the false self, but rather the apparent self because it's apparently you but isn't you. Furthermore, the apparent self can be compartmentalized, and compensated for, and one of the most common compensatory belief structures is the one in which the mind actually is the one consciousness to which it is appearing within and manifesting as. Seeing through this belief structure requires consciousness of the dynamics which formulated it, which will obviously involve a willingness to experience things there was once an aversion to, particularly the experience of being human. In this way, the subpersonality of the vasana is not being blocked and allowed to run or not run (by the mind itself, which is none other than the vasana program), but integrated into consciousness through willingness to be human, which in turn leads to increased potential to pursue passions and desires. The issue with seeing through the idea of the universe being one, and you being that one, is that within a certain context, it's true. However, it's true only as a pointer. It's likewise true that within a certain context you are consciousness manifesting as a person among many others. That person manifests along an experiential line, and the issues which lead to vasanas have to do with how mind manipulates that line, without consciousness of what it's doing, which is almost the same as saying how the collective engine manipulates the person. Very fascinating stuff! Hi preciocho. Welcome back. I only mention that vasanas can be allowed to continue functioning because someone posted a quote from Ramana along those lines. He spoke of vasanas that bring joy. I'm also thinking of folks like Trungpa Rinpoche who many say was self realized, but also died of alchohol addiction. Many of his followers insist that this was willful on his part to experience that process.
My meditation is following the breath, but inevitably mind drifts and thoughts arise.In my return to the breath I have the opportunity to see where mind has been traipsing. This exposes many tendencies that aren't readily apparent. I have gained many useful insights into workings of this personality, some not so pleasant. |
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Post by lopezcabellero on May 13, 2019 10:31:07 GMT -5
Yes, I was under preciocho recently, and jasonl prior to. I lost access to both accounts after a recent laptop transition. Lopez was supposed to be a burner account but low and behold, it's all I have left. I actually got the name off a backpack I bought in Mexico for 40 pesos that's managed to hold up over the last few years. As far as the mind: I basically concur in the unconscious state pain avoidance is a primary driving force. But there are people who find pleasure in pain or watching others in pain, so the line isn't always clear. The principle you mentioned, seeking pleasure to avoid pain, is also about seeking compensation to avoid the truth, and I don't mean the transcendent truth of one consciousness, but the relative truth of being a person that can experience good and bad things. Pain can be mind's conceptualization that what is happening shouldn't happen and therefore isn't or didn't. Coupled to a society where addiction is masqueraded as happiness and it's no wonder that the human condition is what it is. You mentioned in meditation that things come to the surface in meditation. Can you expand on that? If you realize you are not a separate self, then you also realize there is no one present to allow or disallow a vasana, which is interesting. If there is still someone allowing a vasana to hold sway, then we can see the vasana operating as a subpersonality within the structure of the mind, with the dominant personality being the person that doesn't pursue vasanas, operating under the guise of being the realized one consciousness. Addictions are driven unconsciously. Meaning, the compulsion to pursue a vasana is intricately linked to the false self, components of which can be made unconscious due to an association with pain, shame, guilt, inadequacy, fear, terror, and even anger. In this way, I wouldn't call the false self the false self, but rather the apparent self because it's apparently you but isn't you. Furthermore, the apparent self can be compartmentalized, and compensated for, and one of the most common compensatory belief structures is the one in which the mind actually is the one consciousness to which it is appearing within and manifesting as. Seeing through this belief structure requires consciousness of the dynamics which formulated it, which will obviously involve a willingness to experience things there was once an aversion to, particularly the experience of being human. In this way, the subpersonality of the vasana is not being blocked and allowed to run or not run (by the mind itself, which is none other than the vasana program), but integrated into consciousness through willingness to be human, which in turn leads to increased potential to pursue passions and desires. The issue with seeing through the idea of the universe being one, and you being that one, is that within a certain context, it's true. However, it's true only as a pointer. It's likewise true that within a certain context you are consciousness manifesting as a person among many others. That person manifests along an experiential line, and the issues which lead to vasanas have to do with how mind manipulates that line, without consciousness of what it's doing, which is almost the same as saying how the collective engine manipulates the person. Very fascinating stuff! Hi preciocho. Welcome back. I only mention that vasanas can be allowed to continue functioning because someone posted a quote from Ramana along those lines. He spoke of vasanas that bring joy. I'm also thinking of folks like Trungpa Rinpoche who many say was self realized, but also died of alchohol addiction. Many of his followers insist that this was willful on his part to experience that process.
My meditation is following the breath, but inevitably mind drifts and thoughts arise.In my return to the breath I have the opportunity to see where mind has been traipsing. This exposes many tendencies that aren't readily apparent. I have gained many useful insights into workings of this personality, some not so pleasant. Hey, thanks. A vasana that brings joy? I guess that's why I distinguish between addiction and desire, the former of which is always pursued unconsciously as a means of self avoidance. If Rinpoche died of alcoholism, I'm sure it was willful in a way. He used his free will to make choices which degraded his form. How those choices were influenced by emotional denial, we can only speculate, but if he died of organ failure then I would speculate to a high degree. Alcoholics and addicts in general are always in some form of emotional denial, and with this denial a gateway is opened to a spiritual influence. This influence comprises an intricate part of that person's ego, and no better shield for that influence to stay hidden than that of a self realized person. Ultimately, I think too many get lost in the self realized or not self realized label. To the extent any person is in denial, is to the same extent that person is susceptible to compulsion. Someone in search for truth is in the conspicuous position of finding a source of truth in form that resonates, while at the same time themselves being blind to what the truth is. Additionally, to the extent someone is injured on the emotional level, is to the same extent their form will act as a magnet to potential predators or victims. Meaning, some seekers are intellectually thinking that they want truth. But on a vibrational level they're actually looking for someone to coddle to their addictions and help them remain in denial. They might find a pointer to a transcendent reality that hits home, but also be left with a guru that's harboring emotional pain from unresolved childhood stuff that will remain unresolved until a readiness to deal with it arises. When we slap a teacher label on somebody, and they profit from it financially or emotionally in any way, the likelihood that the readiness will appear drops precipitously, which leads to a cycle of exploitation and degradation. Thanks for sharing the specs on your meditation. I don't think it's a bad or unconscious thing that your thoughts are arising while you are focusing on the breath. If it seems like you are thinking while you don't want to be thinking, then there is an underlying emotion calling for attention. As long as energy is trapped in the body's auric field, mind's attempts to manage the energy will continue. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 13, 2019 11:57:52 GMT -5
Hi preciocho. Welcome back. I only mention that vasanas can be allowed to continue functioning because someone posted a quote from Ramana along those lines. He spoke of vasanas that bring joy. I'm also thinking of folks like Trungpa Rinpoche who many say was self realized, but also died of alchohol addiction. Many of his followers insist that this was willful on his part to experience that process.
My meditation is following the breath, but inevitably mind drifts and thoughts arise.In my return to the breath I have the opportunity to see where mind has been traipsing. This exposes many tendencies that aren't readily apparent. I have gained many useful insights into workings of this personality, some not so pleasant. Hey, thanks. A vasana that brings joy? I guess that's why I distinguish between addiction and desire, the former of which is always pursued unconsciously as a means of self avoidance. If Rinpoche died of alcoholism, I'm sure it was willful in a way. He used his free will to make choices which degraded his form. How those choices were influenced by emotional denial, we can only speculate, but if he died of organ failure then I would speculate to a high degree. Alcoholics and addicts in general are always in some form of emotional denial, and with this denial a gateway is opened to a spiritual influence. This influence comprises an intricate part of that person's ego, and no better shield for that influence to stay hidden than that of a self realized person. Ultimately, I think too many get lost in the self realized or not self realized label. To the extent any person is in denial, is to the same extent that person is susceptible to compulsion. Someone in search for truth is in the conspicuous position of finding a source of truth in form that resonates, while at the same time themselves being blind to what the truth is. Additionally, to the extent someone is injured on the emotional level, is to the same extent their form will act as a magnet to potential predators or victims. Meaning, some seekers are intellectually thinking that they want truth. But on a vibrational level they're actually looking for someone to coddle to their addictions and help them remain in denial. They might find a pointer to a transcendent reality that hits home, but also be left with a guru that's harboring emotional pain from unresolved childhood stuff that will remain unresolved until a readiness to deal with it arises. When we slap a teacher label on somebody, and they profit from it financially or emotionally in any way, the likelihood that the readiness will appear drops precipitously, which leads to a cycle of exploitation and degradation. Thanks for sharing the specs on your meditation. I don't think it's a bad or unconscious thing that your thoughts are arising while you are focusing on the breath. If it seems like you are thinking while you don't want to be thinking, then there is an underlying emotion calling for attention. As long as energy is trapped in the body's auric field, mind's attempts to manage the energy will continue. . So it's necessary to find a means to break the self-perpetuating loop, an objective way out. |
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Post by justlikeyou on May 13, 2019 15:31:00 GMT -5
Yes. So it's necessary to find a means to break the self-perpetuating loop, an objective way out. You were of a silent mind before you were of a conditioned mind. There is a big hint in that fact. “Consciousness is spotless, formless and prior to intellect.” -Nisargadatta |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 16:29:36 GMT -5
Hi preciocho. Welcome back. I only mention that vasanas can be allowed to continue functioning because someone posted a quote from Ramana along those lines. He spoke of vasanas that bring joy. I'm also thinking of folks like Trungpa Rinpoche who many say was self realized, but also died of alchohol addiction. Many of his followers insist that this was willful on his part to experience that process.
My meditation is following the breath, but inevitably mind drifts and thoughts arise.In my return to the breath I have the opportunity to see where mind has been traipsing. This exposes many tendencies that aren't readily apparent. I have gained many useful insights into workings of this personality, some not so pleasant. Hey, thanks. A vasana that brings joy? I guess that's why I distinguish between addiction and desire, the former of which is always pursued unconsciously as a means of self avoidance. If Rinpoche died of alcoholism, I'm sure it was willful in a way. He used his free will to make choices which degraded his form. How those choices were influenced by emotional denial, we can only speculate, but if he died of organ failure then I would speculate to a high degree. Alcoholics and addicts in general are always in some form of emotional denial, and with this denial a gateway is opened to a spiritual influence. This influence comprises an intricate part of that person's ego, and no better shield for that influence to stay hidden than that of a self realized person. Ultimately, I think too many get lost in the self realized or not self realized label. To the extent any person is in denial, is to the same extent that person is susceptible to compulsion. Someone in search for truth is in the conspicuous position of finding a source of truth in form that resonates, while at the same time themselves being blind to what the truth is. Additionally, to the extent someone is injured on the emotional level, is to the same extent their form will act as a magnet to potential predators or victims. Meaning, some seekers are intellectually thinking that they want truth. But on a vibrational level they're actually looking for someone to coddle to their addictions and help them remain in denial. They might find a pointer to a transcendent reality that hits home, but also be left with a guru that's harboring emotional pain from unresolved childhood stuff that will remain unresolved until a readiness to deal with it arises. When we slap a teacher label on somebody, and they profit from it financially or emotionally in any way, the likelihood that the readiness will appear drops precipitously, which leads to a cycle of exploitation and degradation. Thanks for sharing the specs on your meditation. I don't think it's a bad or unconscious thing that your thoughts are arising while you are focusing on the breath. If it seems like you are thinking while you don't want to be thinking, then there is an underlying emotion calling for attention. As long as energy is trapped in the body's auric field, mind's attempts to manage the energy will continue. Thoughts are never discouraged. The specific instruction was to "not resist thoughts." Let them come and go, but just refocus on the breath. Inevitably you begin to notice patterns in the thinking. Nothing wrong with thinking. Although the mind eventually quiets. Lolly has some excellent posts on just how this works: the exposing of vasanas during meditation. The reason I asked if your name is Lopez Caballero is that Castilian is my native tongue. |
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Post by lopezcabellero on May 13, 2019 20:49:21 GMT -5
Hey, thanks. A vasana that brings joy? I guess that's why I distinguish between addiction and desire, the former of which is always pursued unconsciously as a means of self avoidance. If Rinpoche died of alcoholism, I'm sure it was willful in a way. He used his free will to make choices which degraded his form. How those choices were influenced by emotional denial, we can only speculate, but if he died of organ failure then I would speculate to a high degree. Alcoholics and addicts in general are always in some form of emotional denial, and with this denial a gateway is opened to a spiritual influence. This influence comprises an intricate part of that person's ego, and no better shield for that influence to stay hidden than that of a self realized person. Ultimately, I think too many get lost in the self realized or not self realized label. To the extent any person is in denial, is to the same extent that person is susceptible to compulsion. Someone in search for truth is in the conspicuous position of finding a source of truth in form that resonates, while at the same time themselves being blind to what the truth is. Additionally, to the extent someone is injured on the emotional level, is to the same extent their form will act as a magnet to potential predators or victims. Meaning, some seekers are intellectually thinking that they want truth. But on a vibrational level they're actually looking for someone to coddle to their addictions and help them remain in denial. They might find a pointer to a transcendent reality that hits home, but also be left with a guru that's harboring emotional pain from unresolved childhood stuff that will remain unresolved until a readiness to deal with it arises. When we slap a teacher label on somebody, and they profit from it financially or emotionally in any way, the likelihood that the readiness will appear drops precipitously, which leads to a cycle of exploitation and degradation. Thanks for sharing the specs on your meditation. I don't think it's a bad or unconscious thing that your thoughts are arising while you are focusing on the breath. If it seems like you are thinking while you don't want to be thinking, then there is an underlying emotion calling for attention. As long as energy is trapped in the body's auric field, mind's attempts to manage the energy will continue. . So it's necessary to find a means to break the self-perpetuating loop, an objective way out. Right, the willingness to be conscious and put an end to the mind games. |
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Post by lopezcabellero on May 13, 2019 20:58:48 GMT -5
Hey, thanks. A vasana that brings joy? I guess that's why I distinguish between addiction and desire, the former of which is always pursued unconsciously as a means of self avoidance. If Rinpoche died of alcoholism, I'm sure it was willful in a way. He used his free will to make choices which degraded his form. How those choices were influenced by emotional denial, we can only speculate, but if he died of organ failure then I would speculate to a high degree. Alcoholics and addicts in general are always in some form of emotional denial, and with this denial a gateway is opened to a spiritual influence. This influence comprises an intricate part of that person's ego, and no better shield for that influence to stay hidden than that of a self realized person. Ultimately, I think too many get lost in the self realized or not self realized label. To the extent any person is in denial, is to the same extent that person is susceptible to compulsion. Someone in search for truth is in the conspicuous position of finding a source of truth in form that resonates, while at the same time themselves being blind to what the truth is. Additionally, to the extent someone is injured on the emotional level, is to the same extent their form will act as a magnet to potential predators or victims. Meaning, some seekers are intellectually thinking that they want truth. But on a vibrational level they're actually looking for someone to coddle to their addictions and help them remain in denial. They might find a pointer to a transcendent reality that hits home, but also be left with a guru that's harboring emotional pain from unresolved childhood stuff that will remain unresolved until a readiness to deal with it arises. When we slap a teacher label on somebody, and they profit from it financially or emotionally in any way, the likelihood that the readiness will appear drops precipitously, which leads to a cycle of exploitation and degradation. Thanks for sharing the specs on your meditation. I don't think it's a bad or unconscious thing that your thoughts are arising while you are focusing on the breath. If it seems like you are thinking while you don't want to be thinking, then there is an underlying emotion calling for attention. As long as energy is trapped in the body's auric field, mind's attempts to manage the energy will continue. Thoughts are never discouraged. The specific instruction was to "not resist thoughts." Let them come and go, but just refocus on the breath. Inevitably you begin to notice patterns in the thinking. Nothing wrong with thinking. Although the mind eventually quiets. Lolly has some excellent posts on just how this works: the exposing of vasanas during meditation. The reason I asked if your name is Lopez Caballero is that Castilian is my native tongue. Oh ok. Well yeah resisting thoughts is just pretending you didn’t mean to be thinking them in the first place. The old two mind syndrome, which happens because of an energy split. Anyways, thanks for spelling caballero right. I knew it looked wrong after I signed up! I would always get a laugh when they would call me that down there. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 14, 2019 10:22:44 GMT -5
Yes. So it's necessary to find a means to break the self-perpetuating loop, an objective way out. “Consciousness is spotless, formless and prior to intellect.” -Nisargadatta
Yes, precisely. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 14, 2019 10:23:23 GMT -5
Yes. So it's necessary to find a means to break the self-perpetuating loop, an objective way out. Right, the willingness to be conscious and put an end to the mind games. Yes. |
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