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Post by siftingtothetruth on Apr 19, 2019 23:25:12 GMT -5
Well if there's an interest to practice then put it into practice. Are you okay? If the interest is strong enough, you won't be able to refrain from putting it into practice. It's like the debate about predestination in Christianity. Those who are destined to be curious about the Self, who hear instructions to listen, understand, and look inward deeply, and who then resonate with those instructions, and do those things... and then whose ignorance is cleared... are the people whom God has, even prior to all this, and above and beyond these things, chosen...
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Post by satchitananda on Apr 19, 2019 23:27:27 GMT -5
Well if there's an interest to practice then put it into practice. Are you okay? If the interest is strong enough, you won't be able to refrain from putting it into practice. That's good. If you are that driven to practice that you cannot resist it that is perfect!
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Post by satchitananda on Apr 19, 2019 23:30:55 GMT -5
If the interest is strong enough, you won't be able to refrain from putting it into practice. It's like the debate about predestination in Christianity. Those who are destined to be curious about the Self, who hear instructions to listen, understand, and look inward deeply, and who then resonate with those instructions, and do those things... and then whose ignorance is cleared... are the people whom God has, even prior to all this, and above and beyond these things, chosen... As far as free will is concerned we shouldn't be concerned about what comes first, the cart or the horse, the chicken or the egg. Whether you think it is predetermined that you practice or you think there is a will behind the practice it makes no difference whatsoever. What will be will be.
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Apr 19, 2019 23:32:59 GMT -5
It's like the debate about predestination in Christianity. Those who are destined to be curious about the Self, who hear instructions to listen, understand, and look inward deeply, and who then resonate with those instructions, and do those things... and then whose ignorance is cleared... are the people whom God has, even prior to all this, and above and beyond these things, chosen... As far as free will is concerned we shouldn't be concerned about what comes first, the cart or the horse, the chicken or the egg. Whether you think it is predetermined that you practice or you think there is a will behind the practice it makes no difference whatsoever. What will be will be. Yes, I agree.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 0:00:36 GMT -5
If the interest is strong enough, you won't be able to refrain from putting it into practice. It's like the debate about predestination in Christianity. Those who are destined to be curious about the Self, who hear instructions to listen, understand, and look inward deeply, and who then resonate with those instructions, and do those things... and then whose ignorance is cleared... are the people whom God has, even prior to all this, and above and beyond these things, chosen... Yes. But, as far as I know...there's no personal God who does such 'choosing.' That's a nice fairy tale though. And it does apparently bring comfort to some...and the opposite to others!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 0:01:17 GMT -5
If the interest is strong enough, you won't be able to refrain from putting it into practice. That's good. If you are that driven to practice that you cannot resist it that is perfect! And if there is no drive whatsoever to practice, that too, is perfect.
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Post by satchitananda on Apr 20, 2019 0:03:16 GMT -5
That's good. If you are that driven to practice that you cannot resist it that is perfect! And if there is no drive whatsoever to practice, that too, is perfect. Yes, it's perfect to be Self Realized and it's perfect to be in a state of sleep or ignorance.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 0:04:37 GMT -5
And if there is no drive whatsoever to practice, that too, is perfect. Yes, it's perfect to be Self Realized and it's perfect to be in a state of sleep or ignorance. An absence of desire to practice does not guarantee a state of sleep/ignorance.
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Post by satchitananda on Apr 20, 2019 0:07:01 GMT -5
Yes, it's perfect to be Self Realized and it's perfect to be in a state of sleep or ignorance. An absence of desire to practice does not guarantee a state of sleep/ignorance. Nor does it guarantee a state of knowledge. If you want to wake up that's fine, if you don't, that's fine too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 0:11:13 GMT -5
An absence of desire to practice does not guarantee a state of sleep/ignorance. Nor does it guarantee a state of knowledge. If you want to wake up that's fine, if you don't, that's fine too. Yup. Of course.
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Post by Reefs on Apr 20, 2019 0:15:44 GMT -5
Can you explain what you mean by: "Objectified perception"? It basically means mind, or perception via mind, the infamous subject/object split so to speak which gives you things/objects. This is basically the topic of nothingness (no-thingness) or emptiness again - which doesn't mean literally nothing or empty. It only looks that way to the objectifying mind because there's literally nothing to objectify. In reality, it is utter fullness, life itself. To see beyond this thingness and realize this fullness of life, you have to look from a perspective of prior to mind, prior to any subject/object split. That's what CC/kensho is all about. And from that perspective of fullness, the objectified world/thingness indeed looks lifeless and dreamlike and unreal, appearance only. You have no actual reference for perception without subject/object split. That's why your accounts of CC/kensho don't ring true and why it is impossible for you to imagine the aliveness pointer not referring to a quality. As ZD says, that's perfectly so. And that's okay.
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Post by satchitananda on Apr 20, 2019 0:19:43 GMT -5
Nor does it guarantee a state of knowledge. If you want to wake up that's fine, if you don't, that's fine too. Yup. Of course. Most people don't want to wake up. They will continue to suffer. There is nothing I can say to those people. But for those who are seeking, the question is, how do I wake up? You can read about spirituality, discuss it, think about it or you can drop all concepts, surrender and abide in the source which is pure awareness. If you are a seeker then by definition you will be seeking, so you won't be doing nothing. Because I know that the natural state is to completely dissolve the egoic I into the total silence of Being I can be confident in knowing what has to be done to wake up to the Self.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 3:29:57 GMT -5
If you have such doubts then do nothing. If you look closely, the drive to do things and then refrain from doing, is not even in your hands to begin with. You're overthinking this. Even after the last month of writing in here every day, do you know why you're refering to the neural construct in this post?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 3:53:48 GMT -5
If the interest is strong enough, you won't be able to refrain from putting it into practice. It's like the debate about predestination in Christianity. Those who are destined to be curious about the Self, who hear instructions to listen, understand, and look inward deeply, and who then resonate with those instructions, and do those things... and then whose ignorance is cleared... are the people whom God has, even prior to all this, and above and beyond these things, chosen... "No one will ever enter the kingdom of Heaven at my bidding, but only because you yourself are whole. Hearken to the Word, understand Knowledge, love Life. No one persecutes or oppresses you other than yourself!" ~ Jesus.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 3:59:07 GMT -5
Can you explain what you mean by: "Objectified perception"? It basically means mind, or perception via mind, the infamous subject/object split so to speak which gives you things/objects. This is basically the topic of nothingness (no-thingness) or emptiness again - which doesn't mean literally nothing or empty. It only looks that way to the objectifying mind because there's literally nothing to objectify. In reality, it is utter fullness, life itself. To see beyond this thingness and realize this fullness of life, you have to look from a perspective of prior to mind, prior to any subject/object split. That's what CC/kensho is all about. And from that perspective of fullness, the objectified world/thingness indeed looks lifeless and dreamlike and unreal, appearance only. You have no actual reference for perception without subject/object split.That's why your accounts of CC/kensho don't ring true and why it is impossible for you to imagine the aliveness pointer not referring to a quality. As ZD says, that's perfectly so. And that's okay.It's gotta be.
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