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Post by Reefs on Dec 16, 2022 21:40:38 GMT -5
I like the idea of astrology -- the influence of the particular pattern of universe's heavenly bodies influence on the sensitive expression of the individual personality. It's compelling. Who knows what other planetoids are exuding some influence over this particular post? Jean: "oh, well she's a Sagi and we'll try anything at least once so that explains why she <blah blah blah>" Bill Sr. (deadpan): "yeah that explains it" ... (never got old, everyone cracked up, including mom ... )That's what I meant by using astrology to your disadvantage.
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Post by inavalan on Dec 16, 2022 21:58:41 GMT -5
Jean: "oh, well she's a Sagi and we'll try anything at least once so that explains why she <blah blah blah>" Bill Sr. (deadpan): "yeah that explains it" ... (never got old, everyone cracked up, including mom ... )That's what I meant by using astrology to your disadvantage. In technical trading that is called "curve-fitting", and it is detrimental to one's bottom-line when they move from back-testing to real-time trading.
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Post by Reefs on Dec 16, 2022 22:35:12 GMT -5
Fun stuff, thanks for taking the time to write it. Yes, the mathematics of the chart casting -- it's not rocket science but not trivial either. With these two women in my life who are avid on the topic, believe me, I've had enough exposure to have an intuitive feel for the influences of the bodies and the signs. Regardless of my opinion of the field over time. There was this guy who made a living at it that she used to follow, ever hear of Kelly Lee Phipps? The way Sue puts her interest in the Pluto transit, it's not just the generational influence on the people born with it in a given same sign, but the influence on the cultural mood at the moment, Similar to how, you know, when Mercury goes retrograde? .. the trad/mod schism ... hmmm, yeah, seems rather predictable. Abe always say that the influence of astrology on your life is like a very small flea at the back of a very very large dog in comparison to the power of your here and now focus. No, never heard of that guy. Yes, I've seen people trying to align historical events with planetary positions and it never fully works, but traditionally they use Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions and their sign position for that. The Mercury retrograde thing has been totally blown out of proportions. It's been turned into pure idiocy. A retrograde planet apparently moves backwards (going retrograde), comes to a halt (stationary) and then starts to move forward again in the order of the signs (going direct), and so traditionally it has been associated with having to do things over again, or revisiting old aspects of your life and thereby having the chance of clearing up unresolved issues. In natal astrology, it is not an important factor. And when you think about it, Mercury is retrograde a lot, probably 2-3 months per year. Which means if you believe those 'Mercury retrograde is creating havoc in your life' theories, 1/4 of your life time should be a total mess. And that's ridiculous. However, in medical astrology, it is a very important factor. In a medical chart, if your significator (the planet that represents you in the chart) is going retrograde, it would indicate your health further deteriorating. If your significator is stationary, it would indicate you've reached the absolute low point, the most critical point, which sometimes can indicate death. But if your significator should turn direct, it would indicate a recovery. Medical astrology is especially helpful in cases where doctors deal with mystery diseases, i.e. the patient feels sick but their standard medical tests don't show anything. Because every sign and every planet is assigned to different parts of the body, like Aries rules the head region, Gemini the hands and arms and the nervous system, the Sun the right eye and the Moon the left eye, Pisces the feet, Saturn the knees and so on, it can give you a lot of surprisingly accurate information. I've been reading a lot pregnancy charts in the past, and it totally works. I had some cases where the pregnancy test showed a negative result but the chart a positive result and after they did another test, it confirmed what the chart indicated. Or someone already being pregnant but the chart showing the significator of the child in an unfortunate position and then they reported back that they actually had a miscarriage. In ancient times, where you didn't have medical tests, these were standard questions for astrologers. The association of the signs with different body areas/parts is also the root of some terrible misinterpretations by modern astrologers, like Scorpio and the 8th house being associated with sexuality and death. The logic of the mods here is that Scorpio is the 8th sign and so it corresponds to the 8th house and the 8th house is traditionally the house of death and also associated with the genitals and so they associated it with sexuality. Which is actually wrong. Because sexuality in the sense of procreation or pleasure belongs to the 5th house (traditionally the house of children, and also anything fun and pleasure related). Sexuality in the sense as part of a formal relationship belongs to the 7th house (traditionally the house of marriage or contractual relationships). This is why nowadays Scorpio is probably the most misunderstood sign and the 8th house the most misunderstood house. Scorpio is a water sign, which means it is very sensitive and it is also a fixed sign which means it is not very proactive. Scorpios usually don't show their emotions which in combination with their gentle nature may create some mystery aura. But in no way are Scorpios intensely sexual or obsessed with matters of death or the occult as you can read in basically every modern astrology book. That's nonsense. So just for fun, ask Sue about Scorpio and the 8th house. And depending on her reply you'll know what kind of books she's been reading.
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Post by laughter on Dec 17, 2022 10:02:51 GMT -5
Jean: "oh, well she's a Sagi and we'll try anything at least once so that explains why she <blah blah blah>" Bill Sr. (deadpan): "yeah that explains it" ... (never got old, everyone cracked up, including mom ... )That's what I meant by using astrology to your disadvantage. Gee. Sounds like somethin' serious goin' on.
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Post by laughter on Dec 17, 2022 10:12:47 GMT -5
Fun stuff, thanks for taking the time to write it. Yes, the mathematics of the chart casting -- it's not rocket science but not trivial either. With these two women in my life who are avid on the topic, believe me, I've had enough exposure to have an intuitive feel for the influences of the bodies and the signs. Regardless of my opinion of the field over time. There was this guy who made a living at it that she used to follow, ever hear of Kelly Lee Phipps? The way Sue puts her interest in the Pluto transit, it's not just the generational influence on the people born with it in a given same sign, but the influence on the cultural mood at the moment, Similar to how, you know, when Mercury goes retrograde? .. the trad/mod schism ... hmmm, yeah, seems rather predictable. Abe always say that the influence of astrology on your life is like a very small flea at the back of a very very large dog in comparison to the power of your here and now focus. No, never heard of that guy. Yes, I've seen people trying to align historical events with planetary positions and it never fully works, but traditionally they use Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions and their sign position for that. The Mercury retrograde thing has been totally blown out of proportions. It's been turned into pure idiocy. A retrograde planet apparently moves backwards (going retrograde), comes to a halt (stationary) and then starts to move forward again in the order of the signs (going direct), and so traditionally it has been associated with having to do things over again, or revisiting old aspects of your life and thereby having the chance of clearing up unresolved issues. In natal astrology, it is not an important factor. And when you think about it, Mercury is retrograde a lot, probably 2-3 months per year. Which means if you believe those 'Mercury retrograde is creating havoc in your life' theories, 1/4 of your life time should be a total mess. And that's ridiculous. between this and ini's reference to trading I'm reminded of the absurd tendency of charts to fill in opening bell gaps, but it's been awhile since, so I don't know if that happens as often these days. However, in medical astrology, it is a very important factor. In a medical chart, if your significator (the planet that represents you in the chart) is going retrograde, it would indicate your health further deteriorating. If your significator is stationary, it would indicate you've reached the absolute low point, the most critical point, which sometimes can indicate death. But if your significator should turn direct, it would indicate a recovery. Medical astrology is especially helpful in cases where doctors deal with mystery diseases, i.e. the patient feels sick but their standard medical tests don't show anything. Because every sign and every planet is assigned to different parts of the body, like Aries rules the head region, Gemini the hands and arms and the nervous system, the Sun the right eye and the Moon the left eye, Pisces the feet, Saturn the knees and so on, it can give you a lot of surprisingly accurate information. I've been reading a lot pregnancy charts in the past, and it totally works. I had some cases where the pregnancy test showed a negative result but the chart a positive result and after they did another test, it confirmed what the chart indicated. Or someone already being pregnant but the chart showing the significator of the child in an unfortunate position and then they reported back that they actually had a miscarriage. In ancient times, where you didn't have medical tests, these were standard questions for astrologers. The association of the signs with different body areas/parts is also the root of some terrible misinterpretations by modern astrologers, like Scorpio and the 8th house being associated with sexuality and death. The logic of the mods here is that Scorpio is the 8th sign and so it corresponds to the 8th house and the 8th house is traditionally the house of death and also associated with the genitals and so they associated it with sexuality. Which is actually wrong. Because sexuality in the sense of procreation or pleasure belongs to the 5th house (traditionally the house of children, and also anything fun and pleasure related). Sexuality in the sense as part of a formal relationship belongs to the 7th house (traditionally the house of marriage or contractual relationships). This is why nowadays Scorpio is probably the most misunderstood sign and the 8th house the most misunderstood house. Scorpio is a water sign, which means it is very sensitive and it is also a fixed sign which means it is not very proactive. Scorpios usually don't show their emotions which in combination with their gentle nature may create some mystery aura. But in no way are Scorpios intensely sexual or obsessed with matters of death or the occult as you can read in basically every modern astrology book. That's nonsense. So just for fun, ask Sue about Scorpio and the 8th house. And depending on her reply you'll know what kind of books she's been reading. Yeah, from my experience Scorps get a bad rap, and are anything but unemotional. By the same token, both figs and E' .. well ...
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Post by Reefs on Dec 19, 2022 6:06:52 GMT -5
Abe always say that the influence of astrology on your life is like a very small flea at the back of a very very large dog in comparison to the power of your here and now focus. No, never heard of that guy. Yes, I've seen people trying to align historical events with planetary positions and it never fully works, but traditionally they use Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions and their sign position for that. The Mercury retrograde thing has been totally blown out of proportions. It's been turned into pure idiocy. A retrograde planet apparently moves backwards (going retrograde), comes to a halt (stationary) and then starts to move forward again in the order of the signs (going direct), and so traditionally it has been associated with having to do things over again, or revisiting old aspects of your life and thereby having the chance of clearing up unresolved issues. In natal astrology, it is not an important factor. And when you think about it, Mercury is retrograde a lot, probably 2-3 months per year. Which means if you believe those 'Mercury retrograde is creating havoc in your life' theories, 1/4 of your life time should be a total mess. And that's ridiculous. between this and ini's reference to trading I'm reminded of the absurd tendency of charts to fill in opening bell gaps, but it's been awhile since, so I don't know if that happens as often these days. However, in medical astrology, it is a very important factor. In a medical chart, if your significator (the planet that represents you in the chart) is going retrograde, it would indicate your health further deteriorating. If your significator is stationary, it would indicate you've reached the absolute low point, the most critical point, which sometimes can indicate death. But if your significator should turn direct, it would indicate a recovery. Medical astrology is especially helpful in cases where doctors deal with mystery diseases, i.e. the patient feels sick but their standard medical tests don't show anything. Because every sign and every planet is assigned to different parts of the body, like Aries rules the head region, Gemini the hands and arms and the nervous system, the Sun the right eye and the Moon the left eye, Pisces the feet, Saturn the knees and so on, it can give you a lot of surprisingly accurate information. I've been reading a lot pregnancy charts in the past, and it totally works. I had some cases where the pregnancy test showed a negative result but the chart a positive result and after they did another test, it confirmed what the chart indicated. Or someone already being pregnant but the chart showing the significator of the child in an unfortunate position and then they reported back that they actually had a miscarriage. In ancient times, where you didn't have medical tests, these were standard questions for astrologers. The association of the signs with different body areas/parts is also the root of some terrible misinterpretations by modern astrologers, like Scorpio and the 8th house being associated with sexuality and death. The logic of the mods here is that Scorpio is the 8th sign and so it corresponds to the 8th house and the 8th house is traditionally the house of death and also associated with the genitals and so they associated it with sexuality. Which is actually wrong. Because sexuality in the sense of procreation or pleasure belongs to the 5th house (traditionally the house of children, and also anything fun and pleasure related). Sexuality in the sense as part of a formal relationship belongs to the 7th house (traditionally the house of marriage or contractual relationships). This is why nowadays Scorpio is probably the most misunderstood sign and the 8th house the most misunderstood house. Scorpio is a water sign, which means it is very sensitive and it is also a fixed sign which means it is not very proactive. Scorpios usually don't show their emotions which in combination with their gentle nature may create some mystery aura. But in no way are Scorpios intensely sexual or obsessed with matters of death or the occult as you can read in basically every modern astrology book. That's nonsense. So just for fun, ask Sue about Scorpio and the 8th house. And depending on her reply you'll know what kind of books she's been reading. Yeah, from my experience Scorps get a bad rap, and are anything but unemotional. By the same token, both figs and E' .. well ... You have to go by vibration and association, not by what's in the books. The books contain a lot of errors. But once you grok the basic vibe of each sign and planet, you don't need those books and theories anymore, you can naturally make the relevant associations and it becomes very intuitive and spot on. That's why in the old books, you usually only find a handful of keywords for each sign that describe the positive and negative extreme ends of the spectrum for each sign. They expected you to figure out the rest for yourself. In modern books they usually write several pages or chapters for each sign. Which very often is fun to read but also very often shows the bias of the author based on their own astrological configurations that filter their own perception. Sometimes you will see people argue which sign is the strongest. But that's missing the point. Each sign has it's advantages and strong points but also it's disadvantages and weak points over other signs. One problem with Scorpio that you will encounter quite often is that they have problems letting go of feelings, because it's a fixed water sign. They don't forget who hurt their feelings. And they usually have a strong urge for revenge (Scorpio is ruled by Mars). If they plot revenge, they usually go for total annihilation of their target (Mars) and they don't stop until that has been accomplished (fixed). And so it often becomes self-destructive for the Scorpio, holding on to strong negative energy for for far too long. It's no wonder that ulcers and cancers are associated with the sign of Scorpio in medical astrology, i.e. that's the negative side of the Scorpio energy.
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Post by laughter on Dec 19, 2022 14:54:34 GMT -5
between this and ini's reference to trading I'm reminded of the absurd tendency of charts to fill in opening bell gaps, but it's been awhile since, so I don't know if that happens as often these days. Yeah, from my experience Scorps get a bad rap, and are anything but unemotional. By the same token, both figs and E' .. well ... You have to go by vibration and association, not by what's in the books. The books contain a lot of errors. But once you grok the basic vibe of each sign and planet, you don't need those books and theories anymore, you can naturally make the relevant associations and it becomes very intuitive and spot on. That's why in the old books, you usually only find a handful of keywords for each sign that describe the positive and negative extreme ends of the spectrum for each sign. They expected you to figure out the rest for yourself. In modern books they usually write several pages or chapters for each sign. Which very often is fun to read but also very often shows the bias of the author based on their own astrological configurations that filter their own perception. Sometimes you will see people argue which sign is the strongest. But that's missing the point. Each sign has it's advantages and strong points but also it's disadvantages and weak points over other signs. One problem with Scorpio that you will encounter quite often is that they have problems letting go of feelings, because it's a fixed water sign. They don't forget who hurt their feelings. And they usually have a strong urge for revenge (Scorpio is ruled by Mars). If they plot revenge, they usually go for total annihilation of their target (Mars) and they don't stop until that has been accomplished (fixed). And so it often becomes self-destructive for the Scorpio, holding on to strong negative energy for for far too long. It's no wonder that ulcers and cancers are associated with the sign of Scorpio in medical astrology, i.e. that's the negative side of the Scorpio energy. I'd opine that there's not one archetype that has a monopoly on something like self-destructive revenge. Seems to me that this can happen with a combination of other archetypes as well, so that (as just one example) folks in that situation won't necessarily have a strong scorpio influence on any version of either their birth or progressed charts.
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Post by Reefs on Dec 19, 2022 21:15:15 GMT -5
You have to go by vibration and association, not by what's in the books. The books contain a lot of errors. But once you grok the basic vibe of each sign and planet, you don't need those books and theories anymore, you can naturally make the relevant associations and it becomes very intuitive and spot on. That's why in the old books, you usually only find a handful of keywords for each sign that describe the positive and negative extreme ends of the spectrum for each sign. They expected you to figure out the rest for yourself. In modern books they usually write several pages or chapters for each sign. Which very often is fun to read but also very often shows the bias of the author based on their own astrological configurations that filter their own perception. Sometimes you will see people argue which sign is the strongest. But that's missing the point. Each sign has it's advantages and strong points but also it's disadvantages and weak points over other signs. One problem with Scorpio that you will encounter quite often is that they have problems letting go of feelings, because it's a fixed water sign. They don't forget who hurt their feelings. And they usually have a strong urge for revenge (Scorpio is ruled by Mars). If they plot revenge, they usually go for total annihilation of their target (Mars) and they don't stop until that has been accomplished (fixed). And so it often becomes self-destructive for the Scorpio, holding on to strong negative energy for for far too long. It's no wonder that ulcers and cancers are associated with the sign of Scorpio in medical astrology, i.e. that's the negative side of the Scorpio energy. I'd opine that there's not one archetype that has a monopoly on something like self-destructive revenge. Seems to me that this can happen with a combination of other archetypes as well, so that (as just one example) folks in that situation won't necessarily have a strong scorpio influence on any version of either their birth or progressed charts. Theoretically, you have the potential for every disease that exists. It just depends on your overall, predominant state of alignment. But in astrology it is all about propensity. In that sense, it's very unlikely that a Gemini would cling to past negative experiences and develop a stomach ulcer over it. It would go against its very nature to dwell on the past and to stay focused on one thing for that long. But it would be very likely for a Scorpio. Same with career paths. It's very common to find fire signs in competitive leadership positions, especially Leo and Aries. Because it would be in alignment with their nature to command and take responsibility and stand their ground and fight for what they believe. They naturally feel drawn to it. But it would be an absolute rarity to find a Pisces in that kind of position. It would go against the Pisces nature to push ahead, set boundaries, demand things from other people and to standup for themselves. They would rather avoid that. This also has a measurable biological component, because the rising sign determines your physical nature, and so you can see characteristic differences in body types like natural muscularity, natural resilience and also type of metabolism. I've mentioned that to Lolly once. If you send a Leo to the gym, he will develop muscles in no time. If you send a Gemini or Pisces to the gym, you'll probably never get anywhere. So there are ideal paths and approaches to life for each archetype that come most easily and each archetype will naturally be drawn to if they just follow what feels best to them. If they don't do that, then there will again be typical ways of dealing with the resulting frustration for each archetype. Which again will lead to typical kinds of manifestations. So that in the books you find Scorpio associated with ulcers, Aries with cuts and burns, Capricorn with chronical, rheumatic diseases, Leo with heart disease and so on. It doesn't have to be that way. But if you go thru life on autopilot and only create by default, that's going to be the most likely outcome. So in the end, the chart doesn't decide your fate, you do. The chart only shows you the cards you've been dealt and what you intended to do with it before you came here. If you follow thru with that is always up to you. As they say in modern astrology, the stars impel, they don't compel. ETA: You may not know this, but people like Paracelsus actually first cast a chart before they looked at their patients. It has been standard practice in medicine since ancient times.
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Post by inavalan on Dec 19, 2022 21:26:56 GMT -5
... So in the end, the chart doesn't decide your fate, you do. The chart only shows you the cards you've been dealt and what you intended to do with it before you came here. If you follow thru with that is always up to you. As they say in modern astrology, the stars impel, they don't compel. Maybe you already explained it and I forgot it or missed it ... Why should stars' configuration at birth have such an influence on one's potentials?
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Post by Reefs on Dec 19, 2022 22:33:04 GMT -5
... So in the end, the chart doesn't decide your fate, you do. The chart only shows you the cards you've been dealt and what you intended to do with it before you came here. If you follow thru with that is always up to you. As they say in modern astrology, the stars impel, they don't compel. Maybe you already explained it and I forgot it or missed it ... Why should stars' configuration at birth have such an influence on one's potentials? That's a hotly debated topic among astrologers. Some think it is an actual, measurable physical influence that comes from the stars, like cosmic radiation. Others see the outer sky as a mere reflection of the inner sky within us where the stars are just indicators. There's a book, Metaphysics of Astrology: Why Astrology Works, which is fairly good. You can find some answers there.
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Post by inavalan on Dec 19, 2022 22:43:15 GMT -5
Maybe you already explained it and I forgot it or missed it ... Why should stars' configuration at birth have such an influence on one's potentials? That's a hotly debated topic among astrologers. Some think it is an actual, measurable physical influence that comes from the stars, like cosmic radiation. Others see the outer sky as a mere reflection of the inner sky within us where the stars are just indicators. There's a book, Metaphysics of Astrology: Why Astrology Works, which is fairly good. You can find some answers there. Thanks. I thought you might have a theory on why.
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Post by Reefs on Dec 19, 2022 22:45:39 GMT -5
That's a hotly debated topic among astrologers. Some think it is an actual, measurable physical influence that comes from the stars, like cosmic radiation. Others see the outer sky as a mere reflection of the inner sky within us where the stars are just indicators. There's a book, Metaphysics of Astrology: Why Astrology Works, which is fairly good. You can find some answers there. Thanks. I thought you might have a theory on why. A theory on why astrology works or why the beginnings matter?
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Post by inavalan on Dec 20, 2022 0:39:37 GMT -5
Thanks. I thought you might have a theory on why. A theory on why astrology works or why the beginnings matter? - Why should stars' configuration at birth have such an influence on one's potentials?
In the womb and after birth, the ego is extremely receptive and rapidly forms many beliefs through the telepathic connections to the child's parents, and through other influences. The Earth, the planets and the stars should also exercise influences as they are gestalts of consciousness. They aren't "just matter". They encompass time, space, probabilities, which give them specific characteristics influenced by their gestalt-elements across the infinite span in time, space, probabilities. So I think that those characteristics, dependent on the perceived configuration at birth, also influence the formation of the ego's belief system, which in turn will affect (even determine) the potentials for all the aspects of the physical experience of that personality.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2023 22:31:30 GMT -5
re: the dolphin issue...
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