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Post by justlikeyou on Sept 8, 2018 14:03:24 GMT -5
Sages have exhorted others to “die before you die” for eons perhaps. Wondering what you suppose this means, and how would you know you have?
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Post by laughter on Sept 8, 2018 14:16:06 GMT -5
Sages have exhorted others to “die before you die” for eons perhaps. Wondering what you suppose this means, and how would you know you have? Have you ever contemplated your own death and felt a visceral sense of panic?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 8, 2018 15:15:39 GMT -5
Sages have exhorted others to “die before you die” for eons perhaps. Wondering what you suppose this means, and how would you know you have? It means to die to the false sense of self, ego/persona/false self/"personality". This is acquired during the early years of life, and when formed filters everything that enter the organism. It's generally what we say "I" to, what most people live their lives through. It's "Tom", "D!ck" and "Harry" and "Mary". Dead means dead, means inactive. It means life is lived through something else. One way to know if it's dead is reaction, does it react to negativity?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 8, 2018 15:17:58 GMT -5
Another part: If you do not die before you die, you will not die when you die. (So it doesn't mean physical death, but it is just as significant, or maybe more-so).
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Post by zendancer on Sept 8, 2018 15:41:39 GMT -5
Sages have exhorted others to “die before you die” for eons perhaps. Wondering what you suppose this means, and how would you know you have? It's a dramatic way of pointing to SR--the realization that one's conventional sense of selfhood is a cognitive illusion. It's possible to discover that what one is is "what is," beyond space and time or birth and death. As Jesus put it in one translation, "...one must leave selfhood behind and discover one's True Self." As far as knowing whether this has happened, there isn't any doubt whatsoever if that realization occurs. People worry about what will happen to them after death, but they rarely worry about where they were or what they were before they were born. Zen has several koans that are sometimes called "enlightenment koans." One of those koans is, "What was your original face before your mother or father were born?" People sometimes have a big insight as a result of contemplating this question.
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Post by preciocho on Sept 8, 2018 23:52:41 GMT -5
Sages have exhorted others to “die before you die” for eons perhaps. Wondering what you suppose this means, and how would you know you have? I would say that's a direct pointer to a compensatory identity. Some sages refer to it as ego, but it seems some teachers use ego and conditioned person interchangeably. I bring this up, because the personal identity doesn't need to die, it doesn't even need to be deconstructed. It just so happens most folks associate who they are with their emotional compensatons, which leaves room for deconstruction and ego transcendence. If you aren't conscious of the difference between a compensatory identity and a personal identity, you're either highly conscious and oblivious to what's going on around you (not likely), or still awaiting the death prior to death, which is what all unconscious people are doing in their own way.
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Post by explorer on Sept 9, 2018 16:26:58 GMT -5
Adyashanti's "The End of Your World" book is in my opinion immensely helpful on this issue. He explains that enlightenment or liberation involve loss and that this loss can be disorientating, even sad. The old urgencies and meanings disappear. There can even be a certain loneliness arising. Of course the end of your world is also a beginning of another world, a new world, a world that is the truth. I bless Adyashanti for writing this book. It really helped to "normalise" liberation (death of the false) for me. I haven't yet come across another book that is so helpful in regard to the issue of life after death of the old self. Come to think of it, I don't need another book about it in any case!
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Post by bluey on Oct 27, 2018 16:22:51 GMT -5
Dying whilst living
In the story you are born with that sweet innocence, I don't have children but I've seen parents shake a rattle in front of the child taking them away from their natural joy. The rattle or toy becomes the first experience to take the babe away from its natural state. And that becomes other things in the outer play in time. Placing it through the fear and hopes of their first teachers into many characters the many me to cope with the marketplace they are in and the world. That's not real freedom but more from fear to become something you never will. You will find you never truly meet another in the marketplace the game. You imagine think you do. But everyone you meet in the story only filters down your wording, energy and allows it in or throws you depending on the first moves you and they made on the chess board of life. Each move is conditioned from the move before. That's not real freedom. It's just a conditioned predictable move along a game square. All the people you've met lovers you've made love to were predictable from your conditioned style.
Why so many can't feel each other in the marketplace as they bring their own conditioned style before another. And this style interferes with what is. The domain of silence stillness has an innocence it's own play to it and yet has an attitude That is pre-reality. Always will be. No style.
Returning to the real source or allowing the source as in Rumis poem Desire
“DESIRE”
by Rumi
A Lover knows only humility, He has no choice. He steals into your alley at night, He has no choice. He longs to kiss every lock of your hair, Don’t fret, He has no choice. In his frenzied Love for you, He longs to break the chains of his imprisonment, He has no choice.
A Lover asked his Beloved, “Do you Love yourself more than you Love me?” Beloved replied: “I have died to myself and I live for you, I’ve disappeared from myself and my attributes, I am present only for you. I’ve forgotten all my learnings, But from knowing you I have become a scholar. I have lost all my strength, But from your power I am able. I Love Myself, I Love You. I Love You, I Love Myself.”
I am your Lover, Come to my side, I will open the gate to your Love. Come settle with me, Let us be neighbors in the Stars. You have been hiding so long, Endlessly drifting in the Sea of my Love. Even so, you have always been connected to me. Concealed, revealed, in the norm, in the un-manifest. I am Life itself. You have been a prisoner of a little pond, I am the Ocean and it’s turbulent flood. Come merge with me. Leave this world of ignorance Be with me, I will open the gate to your Love.
I Desire you more than food or drink. My body, my senses, my Mind, Hunger for your taste. I can sense your presence in my Heart. Although you belong to all the world, I wait in Silent Passion, For one gesture, one glance from You.
Dying whilst living is to awaken to your true nature to return to That natural innocence. To then walk through the marketplace not as a conditioned style which will be a mix of the DNA the fears and hopes of your parents which do serve but will also limit you.
Rumi says of this natural state
I fly without wings I journey without feet Without mouth or teeth I eat sugar With eyes closed I behold the inner worlds
Sugar being the divine nectar, the same smell of innocence when you pick up a baby, or look in to his or her eyes.
One of Nanak students wrote
See without eyes, hear without ears Walk without feet, work without hands Speak without tongue Thus, whilst living die
The Truth is the natural sweetness you were born with can carry you through. You have to pull in the oars and trust. Go within in meditation and just slide down into that emptiness. If your coat gets caught down the slide it's ok you know as a child it soon gets released.
To awaken to That the many parts that you gather, the 🎭 masks become a barrier to finding your true nature. A little like the story of wizard of oz she was always home yet dreamt being in Oz. Pinocchio wanted to feel what it's like to be a real boy in the story. Being in the now, or the natural state you will have that smell and taste of innocence return to the domains of your senses and body.
At work most of my friends are very well off. When they do business they always look to see how well the relationship is from who they meet. They have a saying which I never knew be careful of the one who just smells of money. A real hoarder in the game he won't value his wife or children money is family. You can smell this from him as you meet him his nose will start running when you mention money. A strong indicator to keep away.
Dying whilst living. In the Bhakti tradition or Tantric tradition the need of a teacher to point back at your true nature is essential
So you can place your hand on the rattle and see without any style.
Kabir
Tall is that tree It's fruit is in the skies within Rare is the bird who tastes it He alone will eat this fruit, O Kabir Who dies while living
When in the story my partner was forced into an arranged marriage I could see the game. I questioned who is the real player as I'm tired of playing.
And I surrendered died whilst living yet on the other side of the end is nigh placard the words.........see for yourself.
Find a teacher if you are really interested in This. Otherwise enjoy the game.
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Post by bluey on Oct 31, 2018 14:54:33 GMT -5
Die Before You Die or the art of dying depending on the style and teaching you are exposed to. A story by Wayne Dyer.
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