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Post by laughter on Aug 1, 2018 3:17:52 GMT -5
So I'm reading this book by a famous "beat-poet" who took up Buddhism and in it there's a scene where he's describing these wild orgy's that are going on around him and he thinks about joining in. But then he's on a walk outside and he sees a dead crow and thinks "and that's all sex leads to, after all". So there's like one extreme for defining desire: any want, of any sort. I think that E&R's points are more subtle than this, because it's sort of easy to see when someone goes to the extreme of trying to extinguish all desire that there's probably a futility to that. While I can't say so for sure because I've never tried to do that, it's just common sense that, say, for example, wanting to drink water isn't going to lead to suffering if I've got a clean glass and a cold clear tap. Another way to grasp the subtlety is to consider it from the suffering side of the equation. Maxy's put up some good posts about Buddhist dukkha in the past, and what I remember from that is that there's various shades and type of suffering they account for. At one end of the spectrum is a form of dukka that is just a sort of baseline of being alive: just age, wear and tear, and inevitable deterioration. If we accept that last idea as a form of suffering then it has nothing to do with any conscious, overt desire, but instead, this suffering could be related to desire by way of the attachment to being alive. Well, that's a weird conclusion. But it shows rather poignantly where a purely intellectual approach will lead you. To me, this desire topic is naturally connected to the alignment and inner guidance topic, as well as what A-H call 'contrast'. In alignment and fully in touch with your inner guidance, you won't run after bogus desires. On the other hand, being out of alignment and following bogus desires isn't such a big deal either because this provides contrast. And contrast means variety. And variety means options. And options means new desires and expansion which means summoning of life force again. So maybe it is balance what it is all about. In that sense, I'd say as silly as the goal of eternal total desirelessness is, so is the goal of eternal total alignment. Definitely some confusion there, and the guy hosting the parties was a Zen student who chided the poet about too many words and ideas more than once in the narrative. But Jack's story involves much more than intellect. Bear in mind that he was at best one of the maybe 2nd or 3rd generations of European-Americans that really embraced Buddhism, if not the first. The Buddha's story tells how he pursued a tantric path, and then, when that didn't work, an ascetic path -- which didn't work either and left him near dead. There's a certain poignant innocence in what the monks who sequester themselves away pursue. In the abstract, it's the same sort of undoing and retracing your steps that Niz advised. But we can see that not all Buddhists eschew all desire all the time by their idea of the "middle way". The people who the Buddha sent out to spread the word were told to only beg, but the idea was to offer a path for the householder.
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Post by laughter on Aug 1, 2018 3:55:01 GMT -5
From the outside looking in, and rather casually, seems to me that Buddhism is a pretty big tent. Some of the people who write from a Buddhist perspective are very specific about what they mean by how desire relates to suffering. Some of them are explicit as to how desire and suffering are related, in turn, to the false sense of personal identity. Here's an example of what I'm referring to. So while I take your point about how (in my words) some Buddhists can make a sort of enemy out of the natural flow of human experience, I wouldn't say that all of them do this. If the suffering created by desire is related specifically to the illusion of separation, then I agree, there is the appearance of causation. So with that qualification, I vote "yes". Yes, I think we should make an exception for Zen. But the typical Buddhism seems to be built on flawful logic in a way. And what A-H seem to be implying there that the reasoning of the Buddha's original teaching was actually sound, but his followers turned into something else. Institutions are two-sided coins. As Jed pointed out, most people who've written about spirituality in the past were unenlightened, and the ultimate purpose of any institution is self-perpetuation. So the way Tolle puts it, at the core of every religion there is a kernel of truth that's been buried by centuries of cultural layers. The other side of the coin is that the kernels of truth are hiding front and center and in plain sight. They might be buried, but they're not obscured. The four noble truths are about as insightful as it gets. At issue here is how intellect and emotion makes a mess of the 2nd and the 4th. Obviously there is suffering, and the cause of that suffering is obvious to the quiescent mind, but a source of endless confusion for a noisy mind. Less obviously, suffering can end, and ultimately, there will be as many ways that suffering comes to and end as there are people for whom it actually ends. Even a casual look at what's on the internet shows that Buddhists are all over the map on the 2nd and 4th nt's. Like I said, it's a big tent. Another dichotomy of any religious institution is the basics of what they choose to offer. Practically speaking, you'll have a bigger market if you cater to people who are looking for immediate emotional comfort and a way to live a better life. This inevitably leads to a dilution and distortion of what Buddha or Jesus had to say. But the other side to that coin is that the religions still have to repeat those words, perpetually, so they serve as a form of collective human memory. So theoretically there's no need for someone else to have to rediscover what the Buddha and Jesus did the hard way because it hasn't been forgotten. No theoretical need anyway, but .. well .. you know. Another positive point is that the religious histories stand as a sort of cautionary tale that guided people like J.K. 'Murt in the recent past.
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Post by preciocho on Aug 1, 2018 6:49:37 GMT -5
Yeah. Of course, all manner of egoic and delusion based desire can be momentarily fulfilled, but when such is the basis of a desire, it runs counter to the natural flow of creation. Ultimately, instead of creation providing what one desires, one begins to desire what creation is providing. One aligns, not with what is created, but with the force of creation itself, because the individual IS creation. My understanding of the way the Buddhists look at it is that since any desire fulfillment is temporary it will always have the potential to lead to more craving as time goes on, regardless of how in alignment the original desire might have been. The way I see it, if someone's SR and significantly "out of alignment", they might feel the pain of getting smacked down in pursuing an "impure desire", but they ain't gonna suffer from it. I would say all self seeking is unconscious, while the essence of self seeking is the projection of the unconscious into a compensatory identity, typically in the future. This is one primary dynamic through which the identification complex not only sustains itself but goes un-noticed, because a sense of self is constantly being sought out on an unconscious level. Meaning, people need to get somewhere else to be who they are, while what anyone is could never be anywhere in the time/space framework. Self seeking also opens the individual mind to a spiritual force, such that when the human mind creates the future idea to 'identify with', one may simultaneously be summoning energy to help one seek it out. I've heard this referred to as spirit attachment, and it would seem such attachments can cause premature death, disease, and physical malady, because of a skew in the life force. These forces can also bring about what seems like synchronicity, so I would go as far to call them dangerous when not understood.
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Post by preciocho on Aug 1, 2018 7:36:48 GMT -5
Yes, "lost it's fangs" is a great way to put it, and if this ever happens then it's got to be auspicious. But not every spiritual path is driven by suffering, how much one encounters along the way is entirely subjective -- which isn't to say that there aren't objective circumstances related to the underlying hardship and pain -- and intense suffering just as often as not seems to harden a person away from where nonduality invites. It's an interesting point. You're certainly right if we just look at people's current lives in isolation. I guess I find the idea of past lives persuasive, and believe that people who seem to have come spontaneously or even accidentally into nonduality have gone through the suffering part of the path (and maybe other parts of it too) in some earlier incarnation... no way of proving that, of course. The Hindu viewpoint is that through a series of lives one eventually comes to realize that the usual life activities are like being a hamster on a wheel. Lots of effort, and you never get the sought-after permanent fulfillment. That's what prompts a turn, a sense that "there's got to be something more." I don't think anyone would argue that the history of humankind doesn't have a large influence on what people think and feel, and that realizing how insane our species is can to a certain degree be attributed to the fact that it is indeed insane. However, there is a large degree of confusion surrounding how previous incarnations may or may not influence one's propensity to self seek or think unconsciously, and hence, suffer. A not uncommon practice is to consciously block the self seeking mechanism, which does lead to relief. And many folks call that enlightenment, which is really just putting a dent in the egoic armor.
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Post by laughter on Aug 1, 2018 12:49:52 GMT -5
My understanding of the way the Buddhists look at it is that since any desire fulfillment is temporary it will always have the potential to lead to more craving as time goes on, regardless of how in alignment the original desire might have been. The way I see it, if someone's SR and significantly "out of alignment", they might feel the pain of getting smacked down in pursuing an "impure desire", but they ain't gonna suffer from it. I would say all self seeking is unconscious, while the essence of self seeking is the projection of the unconscious into a compensatory identity, typically in the future. This is one primary dynamic through which the identification complex not only sustains itself but goes un-noticed, because a sense of self is constantly being sought out on an unconscious level. Meaning, people need to get somewhere else to be who they are, while what anyone is could never be anywhere in the time/space framework. Self seeking also opens the individual mind to a spiritual force, such that when the human mind creates the future idea to 'identify with', one may simultaneously be summoning energy to help one seek it out. I've heard this referred to as spirit attachment, and it would seem such attachments can cause premature death, disease, and physical malady, because of a skew in the life force. These forces can also bring about what seems like synchronicity, so I would go as far to call them dangerous when not understood. An individual isn't conscious of what they're unconscious of, so if unconscious self-seeking is going on, then they're unconscious of it -- that much is tautology. But what about someone actively engaged in self-inquiry in the forefront of their mind? True enough that the unconscious self-seeking is still going on, but aren't they conscious of that facet of it that is overt and in the forefront of their waking focus? As far as death, disease and physical malady by spiritual force, do you mean to disagree with the idea that someone SR might feel pain because they did something stupid?
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Post by preciocho on Aug 2, 2018 7:18:29 GMT -5
I would say all self seeking is unconscious, while the essence of self seeking is the projection of the unconscious into a compensatory identity, typically in the future. This is one primary dynamic through which the identification complex not only sustains itself but goes un-noticed, because a sense of self is constantly being sought out on an unconscious level. Meaning, people need to get somewhere else to be who they are, while what anyone is could never be anywhere in the time/space framework. Self seeking also opens the individual mind to a spiritual force, such that when the human mind creates the future idea to 'identify with', one may simultaneously be summoning energy to help one seek it out. I've heard this referred to as spirit attachment, and it would seem such attachments can cause premature death, disease, and physical malady, because of a skew in the life force. These forces can also bring about what seems like synchronicity, so I would go as far to call them dangerous when not understood. An individual isn't conscious of what they're unconscious of, so if unconscious self-seeking is going on, then they're unconscious of it -- that much is tautology. But what about someone actively engaged in self-inquiry in the forefront of their mind? True enough that the unconscious self-seeking is still going on, but aren't they conscious of that facet of it that is overt and in the forefront of their waking focus? As far as death, disease and physical malady by spiritual force, do you mean to disagree with the idea that someone SR might feel pain because they did something stupid? One can be conscious of self seeking and not be able to stop the self seeking, as the driving forces behind the seeking are not conscious. Meaning, even consciously blocking thoughts about the future or desires to become a person in a different moment is not going to prevent self seeking as long as one associates pain with the story of self. Regarding self inquiry--the manner through which pain becomes associated with ideas typically leads to compensatory beliefs. If these beliefs are not released or seen through, self inquiry, even consciously utilizing one's mind to bring attention away from thinking, will likely just allow the same old pain to reformulate into new spiritual beliefs. If the inquiry is used to dissect all beliefs, particularly of the compensatory nature, then there is hope. But ultimately the idea one can utilize one's mind to get rid of the beliefs that create identification with the mind is an obstacle, because the unfolding of creation, or the conditions that condition the mind to perform such inquiry, remain outside of mind's control, and in actuality, completely control mind's conditioning. As far as someome SR and feeling pain. SR is the consciousness realizing it is in no way limited to the person in consciousness. The experiential vessel is the person, and this or that person will feel whatever it is conditioned to, pain or otherwise. However, I would say the link between stupidity and pain is far less evident than the link between emotional avoidance and things going 'wrong' such that emotions can no longer be avoided. That's where disease and physical malady come in, as an outer manifestation of what a person has going on internally.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 10:43:55 GMT -5
An individual isn't conscious of what they're unconscious of, so if unconscious self-seeking is going on, then they're unconscious of it -- that much is tautology. But what about someone actively engaged in self-inquiry in the forefront of their mind? True enough that the unconscious self-seeking is still going on, but aren't they conscious of that facet of it that is overt and in the forefront of their waking focus? As far as death, disease and physical malady by spiritual force, do you mean to disagree with the idea that someone SR might feel pain because they did something stupid? One can be conscious of self seeking and not be able to stop the self seeking, as the driving forces behind the seeking are not conscious. Meaning, even consciously blocking thoughts about the future or desires to become a person in a different moment is not going to prevent self seeking as long as one associates pain with the story of self. Regarding self inquiry--the manner through which pain becomes associated with ideas typically leads to compensatory beliefs. If these beliefs are not released or seen through, self inquiry, even consciously utilizing one's mind to bring attention away from thinking, will likely just allow the same old pain to reformulate into new spiritual beliefs. If the inquiry is used to dissect all beliefs, particularly of the compensatory nature, then there is hope. But ultimately the idea one can utilize one's mind to get rid of the beliefs that create identification with the mind is an obstacle, because the unfolding of creation, or the conditions that condition the mind to perform such inquiry, remain outside of mind's control, and in actuality, completely control mind's conditioning. As far as someome SR and feeling pain. SR is the consciousness realizing it is in no way limited to the person in consciousness. The experiential vessel is the person, and this or that person will feel whatever it is conditioned to, pain or otherwise. However, I would say the link between stupidity and pain is far less evident than the link between emotional avoidance and things going 'wrong' such that emotions can no longer be avoided. That's where disease and physical malady come in, as an outer manifestation of what a person has going on internally. I buy your argument about "emotional avoidance" it can be a setup for some real suffering, an invitation. Though the disease part of it sounds like horse doodoo cause I surmise that even aligned folk die and dying without suicide mostly involves some kind of disease. But to Laughter's point, I was levitating near the bird cages the other day, petting my bird Sunny, who is prone to weirdness. I got distracted by my aura of wonderfulness and he turned and bit through my nail. Unsufferingly, of course, I cursed and screamed, but only for a little bit. I think that's what Laughter meant. Sh@t happens.
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Post by preciocho on Aug 4, 2018 15:33:20 GMT -5
One can be conscious of self seeking and not be able to stop the self seeking, as the driving forces behind the seeking are not conscious. Meaning, even consciously blocking thoughts about the future or desires to become a person in a different moment is not going to prevent self seeking as long as one associates pain with the story of self. Regarding self inquiry--the manner through which pain becomes associated with ideas typically leads to compensatory beliefs. If these beliefs are not released or seen through, self inquiry, even consciously utilizing one's mind to bring attention away from thinking, will likely just allow the same old pain to reformulate into new spiritual beliefs. If the inquiry is used to dissect all beliefs, particularly of the compensatory nature, then there is hope. But ultimately the idea one can utilize one's mind to get rid of the beliefs that create identification with the mind is an obstacle, because the unfolding of creation, or the conditions that condition the mind to perform such inquiry, remain outside of mind's control, and in actuality, completely control mind's conditioning. As far as someome SR and feeling pain. SR is the consciousness realizing it is in no way limited to the person in consciousness. The experiential vessel is the person, and this or that person will feel whatever it is conditioned to, pain or otherwise. However, I would say the link between stupidity and pain is far less evident than the link between emotional avoidance and things going 'wrong' such that emotions can no longer be avoided. That's where disease and physical malady come in, as an outer manifestation of what a person has going on internally. I buy your argument about "emotional avoidance" it can be a setup for some real suffering, an invitation. Though the disease part of it sounds like horse doodoo cause I surmise that even aligned folk die and dying without suicide mostly involves some kind of disease. But to Laughter's point, I was levitating near the bird cages the other day, petting my bird Sunny, who is prone to weirdness. I got distracted by my aura of wonderfulness and he turned and bit through my nail. Unsufferingly, of course, I cursed and screamed, but only for a little bit. I think that's what Laughter meant. Sh@t happens. I'm not aware of anyone on Earth that's completely aligned with the truth of who they are, meaning, a person who functions on the planet without the compensation mechanism running in tandem to an aversion to feeling, but I don't doubt full consciousness is possible. So, the fact that most die from disease doesn't actually refute the point, but I could only speculate as to whether a physical form could live forever. I have had the opportunity to observe birth defects, people with gene mutations, childhood leukemia and other cancers, and can see a link to the emotional condition of the parents and primary caretakers, a condition which paved the way to what some might think of as dark spiritual energy, which rolls over onto children who evolve into developmentally disadvantaged adults, meaning, into misalignment, but also into the presence of ego or hurt self protection. Morbid obesity and much heart disease also can be directly linked to one's emotional condition and need to medicate with sugar, food, and carbohydrates in the morning, as one does his or her best to forget dreams and avoid the emotions associated with them (which one might see as the essence of some dreams). I would even class most suiciders as existing with psychological dis-ease to a degree. That's great you have a bird. Tesla had a bird he would talk to during his down time. Not sure of how great his suffering was, but his ingenuity brought about a strong attraction to seclusion, which can be a suffering in its own way. But, sure, sh.it happens. And for now, we do all die at the end. Maybe death's not so bad. For those suffering, it may actually be a good thing. Go figure.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 17:38:30 GMT -5
I buy your argument about "emotional avoidance" it can be a setup for some real suffering, an invitation. Though the disease part of it sounds like horse doodoo cause I surmise that even aligned folk die and dying without suicide mostly involves some kind of disease. But to Laughter's point, I was levitating near the bird cages the other day, petting my bird Sunny, who is prone to weirdness. I got distracted by my aura of wonderfulness and he turned and bit through my nail. Unsufferingly, of course, I cursed and screamed, but only for a little bit. I think that's what Laughter meant. Sh@t happens. I'm not aware of anyone on Earth that's completely aligned with the truth of who they are, meaning, a person who functions on the planet without the compensation mechanism running in tandem to an aversion to feeling, but I don't doubt full consciousness is possible. So, the fact that most die from disease doesn't actually refute the point, but I could only speculate as to whether a physical form could live forever. I have had the opportunity to observe birth defects, people with gene mutations, childhood leukemia and other cancers, and can see a link to the emotional condition of the parents and primary caretakers, a condition which paved the way to what some might think of as dark spiritual energy, which rolls over onto children who evolve into developmentally disadvantaged adults, meaning, into misalignment, but also into the presence of ego or hurt self protection. Morbid obesity and much heart disease also can be directly linked to one's emotional condition and need to medicate with sugar, food, and carbohydrates in the morning, as one does his or her best to forget dreams and avoid the emotions associated with them (which one might see as the essence of some dreams). I would even class most suiciders as existing with psychological dis-ease to a degree. That's great you have a bird. Tesla had a bird he would talk to during his down time. Not sure of how great his suffering was, but his ingenuity brought about a strong attraction to seclusion, which can be a suffering in its own way. But, sure, sh.it happens. And for now, we do all die at the end. Maybe death's not so bad. For those suffering, it may actually be a good thing. Go figure. I have four birds. They are my kids. After my kids grew up. Two are psychopaths. Sunny and Mr. Limon who is a she had to be serial killers in a previous life. The other two, Rocky and Mr. Beebop, are sweethearts. They all love to dance and play. Placebos show some link between mental state and disease. But I've seen marvelous people managing horrible handicaps with courage and dignity. It seems unlikely they attracted the malady. I saw your other post about humans being an insane species. I'd say it's a troubling generalization. What might that attract? It seems to me once we form expectations, we set ourselves up for the unexpected. Life's tendency is to contradict all beliefs. The ground is always moving. But this last post of yours is one of my favorite posts. You showed some of your heart. I just want to know other than Reefs, obviously, who are the "top level controllers?"
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Post by preciocho on Aug 4, 2018 18:25:27 GMT -5
I'm not aware of anyone on Earth that's completely aligned with the truth of who they are, meaning, a person who functions on the planet without the compensation mechanism running in tandem to an aversion to feeling, but I don't doubt full consciousness is possible. So, the fact that most die from disease doesn't actually refute the point, but I could only speculate as to whether a physical form could live forever. I have had the opportunity to observe birth defects, people with gene mutations, childhood leukemia and other cancers, and can see a link to the emotional condition of the parents and primary caretakers, a condition which paved the way to what some might think of as dark spiritual energy, which rolls over onto children who evolve into developmentally disadvantaged adults, meaning, into misalignment, but also into the presence of ego or hurt self protection. Morbid obesity and much heart disease also can be directly linked to one's emotional condition and need to medicate with sugar, food, and carbohydrates in the morning, as one does his or her best to forget dreams and avoid the emotions associated with them (which one might see as the essence of some dreams). I would even class most suiciders as existing with psychological dis-ease to a degree. That's great you have a bird. Tesla had a bird he would talk to during his down time. Not sure of how great his suffering was, but his ingenuity brought about a strong attraction to seclusion, which can be a suffering in its own way. But, sure, sh.it happens. And for now, we do all die at the end. Maybe death's not so bad. For those suffering, it may actually be a good thing. Go figure. I have four birds. They are my kids. After my kids grew up. Two are psychopaths. Sunny and Mr. Limon who is a she had to be serial killers in a previous life. The other two, Rocky and Mr. Beebop, are sweethearts. They all love to dance and play. Placebos show some link between mental state and disease. But I've seen marvelous people managing horrible handicaps with courage and dignity. It seems unlikely they attracted the malady. I saw your other post about humans being an insane species. I'd say it's a troubling generalization. What might that attract? It seems to me once we form expectations, we set ourselves up for the unexpected. Life's tendency is to contradict all beliefs. The ground is always moving. But this last post of yours is one of my favorite posts. You showed some of your heart. I just want to know other than Reefs, obviously, who are the "top level controllers?" I'm going to address your post in reverse order if that's ok. As far as top level controllers, within the progression of the mind identification complex, there is also an increasing tendency within the individual and clusters of individuals toward world domination and control of others (projection of emotions and control of the projections is a form of unconscious resolution implicit in the complex), but this is a progression from within the complex itself, and so limits exist. From the instant the human mind begins to compartmentalize and compensate, there is a tendency to continually degrade on a spiritual level. Depending on what spiritual DNA line one is born into, one can either degrade into a position of power or weakness within the context of being able to influence world events. On a brighter level, you may be familiar with the idea of celestial spirits or angels, and if we're talking living human beings, spiritually conscious folks. Through these individuals, celestial spirits can 'come through', but the Earth as we experience is generally controlled by unconscious human beings, who are less compartmentalized than the masses who they control (so are to a degree more intelligent), and yet entirely dependent on the controlled for sustenance, such that the meek will inherit the Earth. When I say top level controllers, I mean on the dark side. And I also mean to say, there is a level beyond their control that can be attained through eradicating the identification complex, which is a movement toward the celestial kingdom. I wouldn't say life is oriented to contradict beliefs, but that beliefs can be true within certain contexts. Beliefs within the identification complex are implicitly imperfect, and as such, life can only contradict to the extent that what we like to think of ourselves isn't always true, and realizing this sometimes involves feeling bad. As far as humans being insane, it's a specific reference to the current world condition which is an inevitable result of how human conditioning operates. So, I don't mean to say we are all insane. To be unconscious one is not a person is to be a lunatic in a madhouse. In terms of human disease, personally speaking, I've experienced uprooting causal emotions and alleviation of physical ailments that can take place almost immediately. Typically, because of the world condition, or you could just say the human condition, uprooting causal emotions can take quite a bit of clock time, as the facade or compensatory identity shields emotions that degrade the condition in thought to be value adding ways. With consciousness that value adding may actually translate into degradation, things start to unravel at an accelerated pace. Which is why some folks reports reverse aging as they become more conscious. But regarding physical handicap, again, I would generally say that the condition of the parents or caretakers (and condition of the world) perpetuates the condition of the children, and what might look like progress might actually just be compensation for similar injuries. The idea that one attracted an accident that took a leg, or a birth defect that brings about inability to perform certain tasks, or things of the like, is only true within the context of being unconscious. So this type of attraction is much less of a doing and much more a result of what's already been done. And so I don't blame physically disabled people. Rather, the truth is actually quite empowering.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 9:35:36 GMT -5
I have four birds. They are my kids. After my kids grew up. Two are psychopaths. Sunny and Mr. Limon who is a she had to be serial killers in a previous life. The other two, Rocky and Mr. Beebop, are sweethearts. They all love to dance and play. Placebos show some link between mental state and disease. But I've seen marvelous people managing horrible handicaps with courage and dignity. It seems unlikely they attracted the malady. I saw your other post about humans being an insane species. I'd say it's a troubling generalization. What might that attract? It seems to me once we form expectations, we set ourselves up for the unexpected. Life's tendency is to contradict all beliefs. The ground is always moving. But this last post of yours is one of my favorite posts. You showed some of your heart. I just want to know other than Reefs, obviously, who are the "top level controllers?" I'm going to address your post in reverse order if that's ok. As far as top level controllers, within the progression of the mind identification complex, there is also an increasing tendency within the individual and clusters of individuals toward world domination and control of others (projection of emotions and control of the projections is a form of unconscious resolution implicit in the complex), but this is a progression from within the complex itself, and so limits exist. From the instant the human mind begins to compartmentalize and compensate, there is a tendency to continually degrade on a spiritual level. Depending on what spiritual DNA line one is born into, one can either degrade into a position of power or weakness within the context of being able to influence world events. On a brighter level, you may be familiar with the idea of celestial spirits or angels, and if we're talking living human beings, spiritually conscious folks. Through these individuals, celestial spirits can 'come through', but the Earth as we experience is generally controlled by unconscious human beings, who are less compartmentalized than the masses who they control (so are to a degree more intelligent), and yet entirely dependent on the controlled for sustenance, such that the meek will inherit the Earth. When I say top level controllers, I mean on the dark side. And I also mean to say, there is a level beyond their control that can be attained through eradicating the identification complex, which is a movement toward the celestial kingdom. I wouldn't say life is oriented to contradict beliefs, but that beliefs can be true within certain contexts. Beliefs within the identification complex are implicitly imperfect, and as such, life can only contradict to the extent that what we like to think of ourselves isn't always true, and realizing this sometimes involves feeling bad. As far as humans being insane, it's a specific reference to the current world condition which is an inevitable result of how human conditioning operates. So, I don't mean to say we are all insane. To be unconscious one is not a person is to be a lunatic in a madhouse. In terms of human disease, personally speaking, I've experienced uprooting causal emotions and alleviation of physical ailments that can take place almost immediately. Typically, because of the world condition, or you could just say the human condition, uprooting causal emotions can take quite a bit of clock time, as the facade or compensatory identity shields emotions that degrade the condition in thought to be value adding ways. With consciousness that value adding may actually translate into degradation, things start to unravel at an accelerated pace. Which is why some folks reports reverse aging as they become more conscious. But regarding physical handicap, again, I would generally say that the condition of the parents or caretakers (and condition of the world) perpetuates the condition of the children, and what might look like progress might actually just be compensation for similar injuries. The idea that one attracted an accident that took a leg, or a birth defect that brings about inability to perform certain tasks, or things of the like, is only true within the context of being unconscious. So this type of attraction is much less of a doing and much more a result of what's already been done. And so I don't blame physically disabled people. Rather, the truth is actually quite empowering. Quite an elaborate belief system. If it helps you enjoy life, good. I'm just enjoying myself. Except everyone once in awhile like you said, sh%t happens. "Chop wood, carry water." Only I think you let Reefs off the hook. He's definitely one of those top-levelers.
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Post by preciocho on Aug 5, 2018 10:25:07 GMT -5
I'm going to address your post in reverse order if that's ok. As far as top level controllers, within the progression of the mind identification complex, there is also an increasing tendency within the individual and clusters of individuals toward world domination and control of others (projection of emotions and control of the projections is a form of unconscious resolution implicit in the complex), but this is a progression from within the complex itself, and so limits exist. From the instant the human mind begins to compartmentalize and compensate, there is a tendency to continually degrade on a spiritual level. Depending on what spiritual DNA line one is born into, one can either degrade into a position of power or weakness within the context of being able to influence world events. On a brighter level, you may be familiar with the idea of celestial spirits or angels, and if we're talking living human beings, spiritually conscious folks. Through these individuals, celestial spirits can 'come through', but the Earth as we experience is generally controlled by unconscious human beings, who are less compartmentalized than the masses who they control (so are to a degree more intelligent), and yet entirely dependent on the controlled for sustenance, such that the meek will inherit the Earth. When I say top level controllers, I mean on the dark side. And I also mean to say, there is a level beyond their control that can be attained through eradicating the identification complex, which is a movement toward the celestial kingdom. I wouldn't say life is oriented to contradict beliefs, but that beliefs can be true within certain contexts. Beliefs within the identification complex are implicitly imperfect, and as such, life can only contradict to the extent that what we like to think of ourselves isn't always true, and realizing this sometimes involves feeling bad. As far as humans being insane, it's a specific reference to the current world condition which is an inevitable result of how human conditioning operates. So, I don't mean to say we are all insane. To be unconscious one is not a person is to be a lunatic in a madhouse. In terms of human disease, personally speaking, I've experienced uprooting causal emotions and alleviation of physical ailments that can take place almost immediately. Typically, because of the world condition, or you could just say the human condition, uprooting causal emotions can take quite a bit of clock time, as the facade or compensatory identity shields emotions that degrade the condition in thought to be value adding ways. With consciousness that value adding may actually translate into degradation, things start to unravel at an accelerated pace. Which is why some folks reports reverse aging as they become more conscious. But regarding physical handicap, again, I would generally say that the condition of the parents or caretakers (and condition of the world) perpetuates the condition of the children, and what might look like progress might actually just be compensation for similar injuries. The idea that one attracted an accident that took a leg, or a birth defect that brings about inability to perform certain tasks, or things of the like, is only true within the context of being unconscious. So this type of attraction is much less of a doing and much more a result of what's already been done. And so I don't blame physically disabled people. Rather, the truth is actually quite empowering. Quite an elaborate belief system. If it helps you enjoy life, good. I'm just enjoying myself. Except everyone once in awhile like you said, sh%t happens. "Chop wood, carry water." Only I think you let Reefs off the hook. He's definitely one of those top-levelers.
Well, from another angle I might also say s.hit doesn't just happen. Addressing causal emotions when it does happen ensure it doesn't happen again.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 11:04:29 GMT -5
Quite an elaborate belief system. If it helps you enjoy life, good. I'm just enjoying myself. Except everyone once in awhile like you said, sh%t happens. "Chop wood, carry water." Only I think you let Reefs off the hook. He's definitely one of those top-levelers.
Well, from another angle I might also say s.hit doesn't just happen. Addressing causal emotions when it does happen ensure it doesn't happen again. I guess when Irma hit here it was because there weren't enough LOA believers to ward her off course with their positive vibes or a cluster of unresolved emotions attracting her. Like I said to one of my Christian friends who espoused the power of prayer: what would you rather have in a gun fight body armor or prayers? The answer is obvious. I'm way too practical to buy the notion you propose.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 12:06:22 GMT -5
Well, from another angle I might also say s.hit doesn't just happen. Addressing causal emotions when it does happen ensure it doesn't happen again. I guess when Irma hit here it was because there weren't enough LOA believers to ward her off course with their positive vibes or a cluster of unresolved emotions attracting her. Like I said to one of my Christian friends who espoused the power of prayer: what would you rather have in a gun fight body armor or prayers? The answer is obvious. I'm way too practical to buy the notion you propose. Don't get me wrong. I'm not lamenting the fact that Irma hit. I'm just better prepared now for the next Irma. But no matter how positive I am, I know it'll come. Eventually death comes for us all. This is quite acceptable to me. "Nobody gets out of here alive." as some wise man once said. Anyway, I would like to move on to another topic. I try to have respect for all views. Some times I fall short.
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Post by preciocho on Aug 5, 2018 12:49:38 GMT -5
Well, from another angle I might also say s.hit doesn't just happen. Addressing causal emotions when it does happen ensure it doesn't happen again. I guess when Irma hit here it was because there weren't enough LOA believers to ward her off course with their positive vibes or a cluster of unresolved emotions attracting her. Like I said to one of my Christian friends who espoused the power of prayer: what would you rather have in a gun fight body armor or prayers? The answer is obvious. I'm way too practical to buy the notion you propose. What I'm saying is consciousness can fall into the illusion of separation through something called the identification complex. Teachers call this mind identification. This identification is created through relationship between conditions (ie creation) and the conditioned mind (an appearance within creation). Uprooting the identification complex leaves a different creature than the human that spawned the id complex through emotional management techniques running unconsciously, one capable of falling into universal alignment, because the conditions which create warps in the personality include everything that exists everywhere in the DNA of that condition. Your mind is intricately connected to the world condition, and this connection is in alignment with different channels in the conscious and unconscious state. Do you mean to disagree with that? I wouldn't go as far to say the unresolved emotions of the masses attracted the natural disaster, but that the failure to resolve those emotions could play culprit to the inability to avoid what could have been predicted. Also, maybe someone can be consciously aligned and completely ready to die. If you aren't a person, how can death be the worst thing? People that believe in LOA may have no idea how LOA works, and more often than not, possess the belief in order to avoid that very discovery. I don't think you're too practical to buy the notion I'm proposing, because I am speaking of nothing other than becoming aware of the relationship between the conditions which created your personality structure and the person you apparently are. You may be too identified with that person to explore these ideas more deeply, and that may happen because of the emotional avoidance point you already acknowledged was valid.
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