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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2015 5:08:22 GMT -5
very little mainstream news, I pick up bits and pieces from all sorts of different websites, it's difficult to know what's valid and what isn't, but at a bare minimum, the alternative news are usually able to convincingly show that the mainstream view is providing a very incomplete picture of events. For example, I am sure that 9/11 is not anything like we were originally told. I don't know what the true story is, I just know it's not what we were given at the time. I find Ben Fulford interesting, though I find it very hard to know how much of what he is saying is valid. He reckons that what's happening in Greece is the beginning of a major change in the world economy. I go very lightly with mainstream news too. Never TV news. I supplement with "Yes" magazine and (pardon the name) "The Intelligent Optimist" - they both print news you never hear about, and they're reputable. I agree it's very unlikely we're getting the full true story - from anywhere. Staging the Sandy Hook massacre, though...I dunno. I'm skeptical about people being able to keep secrets like that. Some trashy magazine would pay a lot of money for that scoop. Anyway - sorry for the interrupt. Back to your regularly scheduled thread. I just signed up for 'The Intelligent Optimist', it looks very good, thanks. Like you I used to think that staging these kinds of things was impossible, and that only a foolish mind would think that it WAS possible, but....I've changed my mind. I think 9/11 was a turning point for me in my understanding, in the sense that if a devastating operation like that could be pulled off, where does it end? I realized that most of us have been conditioned to take things at face value, even when face value looks absurd when we look a bit closer. I also realized that we have been conditioned to THINK we are absurd for looking closer. I haven't seen this one, it's new (and long!), but I'm sure it covers most of the relevant question points. The 'likes' and 'dislikes' ratio is very good, which is usually a good sign. If you can't face the length of that, here is a two minute video I saw just a few days after the event, the first 30 seconds is enough though. It's one of the 'parents' being interviewed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 5:19:29 GMT -5
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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2015 5:21:30 GMT -5
Okay
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 5:31:21 GMT -5
seems a better, although with the forum's shift towards everything being said in just one long run-on thread, I'm not sure that it really matters but hey! I have a fond recollection of my old conspiracy days, I wouldn't have found this road without having taken that side street |
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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2015 5:52:51 GMT -5
seems a better, although with the forum's shift towards everything being said in just one long run-on thread, I'm not sure that it really matters but hey! I have a fond recollection of my old conspiracy days, I wouldn't have found this road without having taken that side street Yep, it's okay. For me it was the other way round...I only really got interested in 'what's happening', after I had seen through 'what's happening'. |
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Post by jay17 on Jul 3, 2015 19:33:09 GMT -5
seems a better, although with the forum's shift towards everything being said in just one long run-on thread, I'm not sure that it really matters I agree as far as it potentially won't matter to an unknown number who spend the majority of their forum time in just one long run-on thread. Also, it seems to me that not everything is being said in those two threads. Sure, a helluva lot is being said, but it's only about one subject. If the evolution of the forum is moving towards an extremely narrow area of discussion, one or two threads, i imagine it might seem healthy for those that are equally narrow in their scope of interests, but very unhealthy for a forum that claims to be about discussing the broad scope of spirituality via the teachers. Thus it seems to me that the people who are devoted to Advaita would be as happy as a pig in mud with the course of events here, though many of them would argue this claim till the cows come home, because there is no pig that is having the happy happy joy joys, and they would most likely start another thread to discuss and\or argue yet another vitally important element of their philosophy...while people who have a broader range of interests are possibly just as happy in other forums that discuss more than one philosophy. Though i still find it somewhat interesting to observe devotees coming into non Advaita threads, speaking in such a manner as to dissuade others from participating in these topics. Seems that although they appear to be satisfied to spend their time discussing Advaita, some just have to venture into non Advaita threads to express their disapproval of the topic...it's as if they perceive non Advaita threads will infect the forum and cause damage to the threads they like. Who can know for sure. It's just interesting to speculate every now and then. |
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Post by jay17 on Jul 3, 2015 20:21:50 GMT -5
Like you I used to think that staging these kinds of things was impossible, and that only a foolish mind would think that it WAS possible, but....I've changed my mind. I think 9/11 was a turning point for me in my understanding, in the sense that if a devastating operation like that could be pulled off, where does it end? I realized that most of us have been conditioned to take things at face value, even when face value looks absurd when we look a bit closer. I also realized that we have been conditioned to THINK we are absurd for looking closer. Yep, same here. Not the actual event of 9\11, but later on with the common folk producing their own vids offering alternative views, backed up with convincing footage and arguments. For reasons unknown to me, there are a number of really messed up individuals who seek to have control over everyone and the resources of this planet and they are obsessed with material wealth. And it can easily be done by keeping the majority dumb\ignorant, via interfering in the development of the individual's critical thinking, to think for oneself, rationally, logically and expansively, in order to take in the vast scope of information available. The internets has provided this ability to gather vast amounts of interconnecting data, even though there has always been a small number of people who dedicated their lives to uncovering the truth about events. It's just far more people now have the means to research and prove to themselves that something is wrong with how society is being constructed. I think one of the main reasons why many refuse to accept the evidence within conspiracy ideas is they find it really difficult to consider their own government\big business\bankers\secret societies\any or all of them, are going around causing death and destruction. It's just too much to take in. Too fearful to contemplate, so it goes in the denial basket and stays there. 9\11 was a turning point for me, but as i researched more, the psychopaths that wreak havoc across the globe, have been doing so since recorded history, it's just more obvious now because of the free access to huge amounts of data. The keys that these people use are: - disarm the masses so they cannot rise up against them. This includes disarming them physically and intellectually. Take away their ability to physically defend themselves, and their ability to critically analyze and thus see what's going on. - 'divide and conquer' - make the masses be fearful or disliking-hateful\distrusting of each other. Give them two opposing political parties or sports teams to align themselves with and thus be in an adversarial relationship with the "opposition" supporters. Make the citizens of one country think another country is their enemy and is trying to kill them. Keep the Tribal mentality alive, so the common folk will always be fighting against other common folk, while the real enemies of humanity go about their bizarre business unnoticed. - distraction via entertainment - keep people focused on pleasurable activities, entertainment, sex, material wealth. This includes a society that encourages and rewards people to give up being responsible for themselves. Let the elected leaders make the hard decisions, sue others for your own errors of judgement. - and the big one they are using at the moment, fear. Keep people in a perpetual state of fear and you can manipulate them to do anything, give up their rights and freedoms for the sake of safety from terrorists, nuts with guns. ------------------------------------ I think the tide is turning though. More and more people are realizing their suspicions are true due to the wealth of data and connecting with others who think the same way. But i cannot formulate an accurate account of how many and how quickly because the internets has shown the huge number but i do not know how many there were before we had global access. But because we have global access and more are discussing and challenging the status quo, i think the path of humanity is in a position to create changes that will benefit all life on earth, not just for the dysfunctional minority who want everything for themselves. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 3, 2015 23:02:12 GMT -5
Everyone knows 9/11 was Oswald and Elvis doing the secret bidding of the koolaide lobby. Peeps taste better to the reptillians the more of that stuff they drink -- especially the purple flavor. Kant for the life of me yet figure out the connection between the drink and the dastardly deed though. Maybe some of the other truthers here can enlighten me. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 4, 2015 7:40:04 GMT -5
Like you I used to think that staging these kinds of things was impossible, and that only a foolish mind would think that it WAS possible, but....I've changed my mind. I think 9/11 was a turning point for me in my understanding, in the sense that if a devastating operation like that could be pulled off, where does it end? I realized that most of us have been conditioned to take things at face value, even when face value looks absurd when we look a bit closer. I also realized that we have been conditioned to THINK we are absurd for looking closer. Yep, same here. Not the actual event of 9\11, but later on with the common folk producing their own vids offering alternative views, backed up with convincing footage and arguments. For reasons unknown to me, there are a number of really messed up individuals who seek to have control everyone and the resources of this planet and they are obsessed with material wealth. And it can easily be done by keeping the majority dumb\ignorant, via interfering in the development of the individual's critical thinking, to think for oneself, rationally, logically and expansively, in order to take in the vast scope of information available. The internets has provided this ability to gather vast amounts of interconnecting data, even though there has always been a small number of people who dedicated their lives to uncovering the truth about events. It's just far more people now have the means to research and prove to themselves that something is wrong with how society is being constructed. I think one of the main reasons why many refuse to accept the evidence within conspiracy ideas is they find it really difficult to consider their own government\big business\bankers\secret societies\any or all of them, are going around causing death and destruction. It's just too much to take in. Too fearful to contemplate, so it goes in the denial basket and stays there. 9\11 was a turning point for me, but as i researched more, the psychopaths that wreak havoc across the globe, have been doing so since recorded history, it's just more obvious now because of the free access to huge amounts of data. The keys that these people use are: - disarm the masses so they cannot rise up against them. This includes disarming them physically and intellectually. Take away their ability to physically defend themselves, and their ability to critically analyze and thus see what's going on. - "divide and conquer" - make the masses be fearful or disliking-hateful\distrusting of each other. Give them two opposing political parties or sports teams to align themselves with and be in an adversarial relationship with the "opposition". Make the citizens of one country think another country is their enemy and is trying to kill them. Keep the Tribal mentality alive, so the common folk will always be fighting against other common folk, while the real enemies of humanity go about their bizarre business unnoticed. - distraction via entertainment - keep people focused on pleasurable activities, entertainment, sex, material wealth. This includes a society that encourages and rewards people to give up being responsible for themselves. Let the elected leaders make the hard decisions, sue others for your own errors of judgement. - and the big one they are using at the moment, fear. Keep people in a perpetual state of fear and you can manipulate them to do anything, give up their rights and freedoms for the sake of safety from disease, terrorists, nuts with guns. ------------------------------------ I think the tide is turning though. More and more people are realizing their suspicions are true, due to the wealth of data and connecting with others who think the same way. But i cannot formulate an accurate account of how many and how quickly because the internets has shown the huge number but i do not know how many there were before we had global access. But because we have global access and more are discussing and challenging the status quo, i think the path of humanity is in a position to create changes that will benefit all life on earth, not just for the dysfunctional minority who want everything for themselves. I resonate and agree with all that, and actually got slight goosebumps when I got to the bottom section, usually a sign for me of something good and something true. On 9/11 and for probably about 3/4 years afterwards, I also took it at face value. I don't recall what triggered my questioning, but I do know that the many vids on youtube providing alternative views have played a big role over the years. Like you, I think a big resistance for many folks is the idea that our governments would be deceiving us so much. And 9/11 really is just the tip of an iceberg. I think this is also why folks reject the alternative views, there is a sense of just how deep it all goes, right down to questioning the ancestral roots of humanity, why we are here, and who we are. In a way, it is just easier to turn a blind eye and laugh at the alternative views. It is changing though for sure, and I appreciate the fact that some celebrities speak out these days. I watched this Matt Damon video yesterday and liked it.... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 8:57:41 GMT -5
seems a better, although with the forum's shift towards everything being said in just one long run-on thread, I'm not sure that it really matters I agree as far as it potentially won't matter to an unknown number who spend the majority of their forum time in just one long run-on thread. Also, it seems to me that not everything is being said in those two threads. Sure, a helluva lot is being said, but it's only about one subject. If the evolution of the forum is moving towards an extremely narrow area of discussion, one or two threads, i imagine it might seem healthy for those that are equally narrow in their scope of interests, but very unhealthy for a forum that claims to be about discussing the broad scope of spirituality via the teachers. Thus it seems to me that the people who are devoted to Advaita would be as happy as a pig in mud with the course of events here, though many of them would argue this claim till the cows come home, because there is no pig that is having the happy happy joy joys, and they would most likely start another thread to discuss and\or argue yet another vitally important element of their philosophy...while people who have a broader range of interests are possibly just as happy in other forums that discuss more than one philosophy. Though i still find it somewhat interesting to observe devotees coming into non Advaita threads, speaking in such a manner as to dissuade others from participating in these topics. Seems that although they appear to be satisfied to spend their time discussing Advaita, some just have to venture into non Advaita threads to express their disapproval of the topic...it's as if they perceive non Advaiat threads will infect the forum and cause damage to the threads they like. Given the content offered on Shawn's homepage it's not surprising that people with an interest in non duality (or ending suffering) would congregate here. But you are certainly free to talk about any other topics as you desire. Who can know for sure. It's just interesting to speculate every now and then. "Instead of indulging in mere speculation, devote yourself here and now to the search for the Truth that is ever within you." – Ramana Maharshi (from the homepage) ;-) |
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Post by quinn on Jul 4, 2015 10:05:26 GMT -5
I resonate and agree with all that, and actually got slight goosebumps when I got to the bottom section, usually a sign for me of something good and something true. On 9/11 and for probably about 3/4 years afterwards, I also took it at face value. I don't recall what triggered my questioning, but I do know that the many vids on youtube providing alternative views have played a big role over the years. Like you, I think a big resistance for many folks is the idea that our governments would be deceiving us so much. And 9/11 really is just the tip of an iceberg. I think this is also why folks reject the alternative views, there is a sense of just how deep it all goes, right down to questioning the ancestral roots of humanity, why we are here, and who we are. In a way, it is just easier to turn a blind eye and laugh at the alternative views. It is changing though for sure, and I appreciate the fact that some celebrities speak out these days. I watched this Matt Damon video yesterday and liked it.... I'm not so sure about that, Andrew. At least, it seems to me that questioning government, media, medicine, big business and so on are happening a lot. Of course, some still dig their heels in and write everyone off as delusional (I have family members like that!) but mostly there's a growing suspicion of those in authority. I followed the conspiracy theorists for quite a while years ago and I'll tell you the conclusion I finally came to at that time: All anyone can do (and by anyone, I mean those not in the power position) is to be as clear as possible about what can be known and find our own authority. Unless that's done, we're lambs to the slaughter. And that applies to lizard-people among us, aliens, forces on the dark planes, Illuminati, the Koch Brothers and Merck Pharmaceuticals. I enjoyed the Matt Damon speech. On the playlist that came after was a wonderful talk by Howard Zinn about questioning the sacred - in this case, wars that we've considered above reproach - 'good wars'. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 4, 2015 11:50:03 GMT -5
I resonate and agree with all that, and actually got slight goosebumps when I got to the bottom section, usually a sign for me of something good and something true. On 9/11 and for probably about 3/4 years afterwards, I also took it at face value. I don't recall what triggered my questioning, but I do know that the many vids on youtube providing alternative views have played a big role over the years. Like you, I think a big resistance for many folks is the idea that our governments would be deceiving us so much. And 9/11 really is just the tip of an iceberg. I think this is also why folks reject the alternative views, there is a sense of just how deep it all goes, right down to questioning the ancestral roots of humanity, why we are here, and who we are. In a way, it is just easier to turn a blind eye and laugh at the alternative views. It is changing though for sure, and I appreciate the fact that some celebrities speak out these days. I watched this Matt Damon video yesterday and liked it.... I'm not so sure about that, Andrew. At least, it seems to me that questioning government, media, medicine, big business and so on are happening a lot. Of course, some still dig their heels in and write everyone off as delusional (I have family members like that!) but mostly there's a growing suspicion of those in authority. I followed the conspiracy theorists for quite a while years ago and I'll tell you the conclusion I finally came to at that time: All anyone can do (and by anyone, I mean those not in the power position) is to be as clear as possible about what can be known and find our own authority. Unless that's done, we're lambs to the slaughter. And that applies to lizard-people among us, aliens, forces on the dark planes, Illuminati, the Koch Brothers and Merck Pharmaceuticals. I enjoyed the Matt Damon speech. On the playlist that came after was a wonderful talk by Howard Zinn about questioning the sacred - in this case, wars that we've considered above reproach - 'good wars'. I think you're right that things have been, and are changing, in terms of the questioning. There was a recent article in a British conservative online newspaper, the title of which was something along the lines of 'as it turns out, the conspiracy theorists are right'. I know that very few people trust the government here in the UK, and I guess it's not dissimilar in the US. However, there still seems to be a line which folks find hard to cross, and it's an understandable line. In a sense, it's one thing to know that parties take pay offs from corporations and turn a blind eye to tax evasion, it's another thing to think that the government was involved in 9-11 and perhaps funds ISIS today. The whole thing is a can of worms in the sense that if we truly look closely at what's going on, we might have to start questioning the choices we have made....off the top of my head examples might be.....why do I work for who I work for? Why do I have a mortgage? Why do I want to send my kids to a certain school? As I said to jay, it can threaten our whole sense of identity. I think you gave sound advice though. Personally I tend not to express myself in such way that makes it seem like I am an authority on this, because I'm not at all. It would be darn hard to be an authority on this subject because there is so much to it, so many different things going on. For example, I find the 'climate' issue a minefield, lord knows what the truth is on that subject. So I just tend to say.....''well, that's fishy. Very fishy''. |
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Post by quinn on Jul 4, 2015 14:55:01 GMT -5
I think you're right that things have been, and are changing, in terms of the questioning. There was a recent article in a British conservative online newspaper, the title of which was something along the lines of 'as it turns out, the conspiracy theorists are right'. I know that very few people trust the government here in the UK, and I guess it's not dissimilar in the US. However, there still seems to be a line which folks find hard to cross, and it's an understandable line. In a sense, it's one thing to know that parties take pay offs from corporations and turn a blind eye to tax evasion, it's another thing to think that the government was involved in 9-11 and perhaps funds ISIS today. The whole thing is a can of worms in the sense that if we truly look closely at what's going on, we might have to start questioning the choices we have made....off the top of my head examples might be.....why do I work for who I work for? Why do I have a mortgage? Why do I want to send my kids to a certain school? As I said to jay, it can threaten our whole sense of identity. I think you gave sound advice though. Personally I tend not to express myself in such way that makes it seem like I am an authority on this, because I'm not at all. It would be darn hard to be an authority on this subject because there is so much to it, so many different things going on. For example, I find the 'climate' issue a minefield, lord knows what the truth is on that subject. So I just tend to say.....''well, that's fishy. Very fishy''.  Yes, something doesn't smell quite right - I'm with you there. I'm thinking...follow where the money goes, follow where the power goes. But it's often not a straight-forward path to see and we have to be careful not to make up stories. I was thinking about how when the legality of gay marriage got upheld in our country on the federal level, some politicians were suddenly cheering when not so long ago they were against it. They swayed because voter polls showed a growing support. So even in the midst of supporting legislation that puts money or power in their pockets, they still have to give lip-service to the voters or their life-line (conduit to power) gets cut. Even in an oppressive dictatorship, tons of money has to be spent on propaganda, military, security to maintain the structure to support it. That's a very weak type of power.  |
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Post by laughter on Jul 4, 2015 16:35:46 GMT -5
I agree as far as it potentially won't matter to an unknown number who spend the majority of their forum time in just one long run-on thread. Also, it seems to me that not everything is being said in those two threads. Sure, a helluva lot is being said, but it's only about one subject. If the evolution of the forum is moving towards an extremely narrow area of discussion, one or two threads, i imagine it might seem healthy for those that are equally narrow in their scope of interests, but very unhealthy for a forum that claims to be about discussing the broad scope of spirituality via the teachers. Thus it seems to me that the people who are devoted to Advaita would be as happy as a pig in mud with the course of events here, though many of them would argue this claim till the cows come home, because there is no pig that is having the happy happy joy joys, and they would most likely start another thread to discuss and\or argue yet another vitally important element of their philosophy...while people who have a broader range of interests are possibly just as happy in other forums that discuss more than one philosophy. Though i still find it somewhat interesting to observe devotees coming into non Advaita threads, speaking in such a manner as to dissuade others from participating in these topics. Seems that although they appear to be satisfied to spend their time discussing Advaita, some just have to venture into non Advaita threads to express their disapproval of the topic...it's as if they perceive non Advaiat threads will infect the forum and cause damage to the threads they like. Given the content offered on Shawn's homepage it's not surprising that people with an interest in non duality (or ending suffering) would congregate here. But you are certainly free to talk about any other topics as you desire.
Who can know for sure. It's just interesting to speculate every now and then. "Instead of indulging in mere speculation, devote yourself here and now to the search for the Truth that is ever within you." – Ramana Maharshi (from the homepage) ;-) is the ultimate double-bind, and it's one that I do so adore. All I tried to do last year was provide an environment free of acrimonious debate over in GSD -- an alternative user experience -- and it actually worked for awhile. During that time I was called "a suck-azz squirt", a control freak, an a$$hole, a brown bear, yadda, yadda -- more names that I care to remember, honestly -- but I never banned anyone for the act of dissent. Free speech is a very hard concept to live by and eventually created it's opposite, but it really is the ultimate double-bind for peeps who constantly generate angry rhetoric directed at the forum in general. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 4, 2015 16:43:58 GMT -5
I resonate and agree with all that, and actually got slight goosebumps when I got to the bottom section, usually a sign for me of something good and something true. On 9/11 and for probably about 3/4 years afterwards, I also took it at face value. I don't recall what triggered my questioning, but I do know that the many vids on youtube providing alternative views have played a big role over the years. Like you, I think a big resistance for many folks is the idea that our governments would be deceiving us so much. And 9/11 really is just the tip of an iceberg. I think this is also why folks reject the alternative views, there is a sense of just how deep it all goes, right down to questioning the ancestral roots of humanity, why we are here, and who we are. In a way, it is just easier to turn a blind eye and laugh at the alternative views. It is changing though for sure, and I appreciate the fact that some celebrities speak out these days. I watched this Matt Damon video yesterday and liked it.... I'm not so sure about that, Andrew. At least, it seems to me that questioning government, media, medicine, big business and so on are happening a lot. Of course, some still dig their heels in and write everyone off as delusional (I have family members like that!) but mostly there's a growing suspicion of those in authority. I followed the conspiracy theorists for quite a while years ago and I'll tell you the conclusion I finally came to at that time: All anyone can do (and by anyone, I mean those not in the power position) is to be as clear as possible about what can be known and find our own authority. Unless that's done, we're lambs to the slaughter. And that applies to lizard-people among us, aliens, forces on the dark planes, Illuminati, the Koch Brothers and Merck Pharmaceuticals. I enjoyed the Matt Damon speech. On the playlist that came after was a wonderful talk by Howard Zinn about questioning the sacred - in this case, wars that we've considered above reproach - 'good wars'. Yes, that's well said. Some of the agenda's -- in terms of common consensus -- of those with power are pretty obvious to anyone who wants to look, but there's no need to feel powerless about them just because you can't personally make the distortions in the media stop. I don't know the source of this, but someone once expressed how I take your sentence to read with the idea: "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything". In terms of non-duality of course, "standing for something" implies identification with form. We could replace the word "something" with the word "nothing", and this, in my opinion, might divide the forum members between those who would read it as advocating apathy, and those who would understand otherwise.  |
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