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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 7:40:37 GMT -5
I was making a joke. But I remember reading a story about it. It was in one of Godman or James's books. I've read so many. There were parasites in his cushion and his peeps, such a horrible word, wanted to spray the cushion and he would not let them. Eventually, they had to distract him to spray the cushion. Huh. Interesting. Looking for a reference, I found this instead, from Ramana Maharshi: His Life, by Gabriele Ebert: "However, insofar as concerns insects which were a nuisance to people, Sri Ramana did not object to killing them. When once a whole army of black ants invaded the hall through the water drain, he told Annamalai Swami to detect where they were coming from and to put an end to it. The hole was cemented over without further ado. He also used to pluck blood-sucking insects out of the coats of the dogs and throw them into the gleaming coals. Similarly he did not object if devotees killed mosquitoes or used insecticide in the cowshed." I'll try to find the anecdote about the spraying of his cushion.
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Post by tenka on Nov 22, 2018 8:15:33 GMT -5
Uh Huh, Uh Huh .. Just saying you tell me what's not true about it .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 8:20:11 GMT -5
Yes. Reefs calls it mentation, but I am not on any team. I am struggling with this koan life has given me. I just can't, with a straight face, say my right hand is illusory and then very guardedly and trembling reach into my crazy parrots cage to swap out his fruit. Something just seems wrong, intuitively. The belief doesn't match my actions. It just seems feigned. And yet I see the beauty in Sift and E's cosmology. It's like the intellect says it is ilusory, but something deeper says it is not. This is why I identify with Niz's quote that goes something like this "when I see that I am nothing, this is wisdom; when I see that I am everything, this is love. Between the two my life moves." To be honest if the guru boom didn't happen whenever it did in the west, there would never be peeps running around saying they don't exist or no-one is here or what is here is an illusion . Peeps would get on with life, they would experience a manner of all things, they would suffer and they would say I am suffering, they would feel loved and say I feel loved, they would love their children and they would go to work and they would perhaps dream of a brighter future. They would dream at night an know the difference between a dream witch of their dreams and their mother in-law in the waking world . It gone all weird I would say and nowadays peeps like myself do actual question some of what the masters say . Their realizations are no different to the realizations I have had or those on the forums have had . At times it's clear that the masters contradict themselves and don't seem to agree with other masters in some key areas . Like you I can look at my hand and say it's a real hand without going all guru like weird . I can say lots of things about self and no self but I would like to think I am putting it all into context in reflection of our environment, that why normal folk can tell when they are dreaming or not or whether there is an ego self present or not . There isn't the theory entrtained that your wifes appearance disappears etc . Where the fcuk have these theories come from, they are just weird and wild theories that don't reflect anything realized . I don't like east/west distinctions. The world has shrunk so much, they seem irrelevant. If you listen to Spira's talks--I like him because he's easy to follow, like Hemingway-- he says your realization, where the world is Self and real is often preceded by the realization that there is no self and no world. He considers this a useful first step, that allows the I to realize the misidentification with the body, neti neti. I like Niz's suggestion that the truth is beyond real and unreal. But from my zazen practice's perspective, this is all academic. I remember one of the Zen priests, a real crazy character who I loved, telling me to burn all my books. When I asked him for a good book about Zen, he told me if it's in a book it is not Zen. I am far from calling myself enlightened or Self Realized and quite frankly though I engage with E, and Fig and Gopal and they make fun of me at times, I see myself in them and I really enjoy having them around. It's just a personal thing for me, to say one thing (snakes are illuson) and act otherwise. I also have great admiration for Sifty and have read and enjoyed his excellent book. Their arguments as I've said are quite compelling. Having said all that, I used to ref my son's soccer games. Half the crowd wants to kill you and some times, everyone wants to kill you, so I appreciate Reefs position. It is a tough job. But they were fun to have around in all their glory, even with that sharp edge. I miss the counter punches.
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Post by tenka on Nov 22, 2018 8:20:21 GMT -5
Huh. Interesting. Looking for a reference, I found this instead, from Ramana Maharshi: His Life, by Gabriele Ebert: "However, insofar as concerns insects which were a nuisance to people, Sri Ramana did not object to killing them. When once a whole army of black ants invaded the hall through the water drain, he told Annamalai Swami to detect where they were coming from and to put an end to it. The hole was cemented over without further ado. He also used to pluck blood-sucking insects out of the coats of the dogs and throw them into the gleaming coals. Similarly he did not object if devotees killed mosquitoes or used insecticide in the cowshed." I'll try to find the anecdote about the spraying of his cushion. I was at a trance group about 15 years ago, she was a lecturer and teacher of a well known spiritual college here in the U.K. She seemed well cool and knowledgeable about God stuff and life in general, I even had spirit speak through her directly to me that has been confirmed to me time and time again .. She ticked all my boxes at the time and then a fly landed on the arm of the armchair where she was sitting . She squashed it and laughed out loud and said something along the lines of 'there so bloody annoying aren't they'. I suppose it's why I watch for peeps behaviour despite what they say ...
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Post by tenka on Nov 22, 2018 8:29:51 GMT -5
To be honest if the guru boom didn't happen whenever it did in the west, there would never be peeps running around saying they don't exist or no-one is here or what is here is an illusion . Peeps would get on with life, they would experience a manner of all things, they would suffer and they would say I am suffering, they would feel loved and say I feel loved, they would love their children and they would go to work and they would perhaps dream of a brighter future. They would dream at night an know the difference between a dream witch of their dreams and their mother in-law in the waking world . It gone all weird I would say and nowadays peeps like myself do actual question some of what the masters say . Their realizations are no different to the realizations I have had or those on the forums have had . At times it's clear that the masters contradict themselves and don't seem to agree with other masters in some key areas . Like you I can look at my hand and say it's a real hand without going all guru like weird . I can say lots of things about self and no self but I would like to think I am putting it all into context in reflection of our environment, that why normal folk can tell when they are dreaming or not or whether there is an ego self present or not . There isn't the theory entrtained that your wifes appearance disappears etc . Where the fcuk have these theories come from, they are just weird and wild theories that don't reflect anything realized . Having said all that, I used to ref my son's soccer games. Half the crowd wants to kill you and some times, everyone wants to kill you, so I appreciate Reefs position. It is a tough job. But they were fun to have around in all their glory, even with that sharp edge. I miss the counter punches. .. So Reefs is a reeferee . In regards to the teachers, there are bits and pieces that resonate with me also, I remember niz saying in one of his books that was quoted on the forums at sometime to put his book down also and find it out for yourselves . I agree with that . Reefs said something similar to Gopal and when that is accomplished then pick up a book and see if it resonates with what you have realized . I think that is sound advice, at times however a book can be the catalyst in order to take note that one needs to put the book down lol .
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Post by tenka on Nov 22, 2018 8:59:49 GMT -5
Something I have just read from Ramana ..
The witness is not the person. The person comes into being when there is a basis for it, an organism, and a body. In it, the Absolute is reflected as awareness. Pure awareness becomes self-awareness. When there is a Self, self-awareness is the witness. When there is no self to witness, there is no witnessing either. It is very simple; it is the presence of the person that complicates. See that there is no such thing as a permanently separate person and all becomes clear. Awareness, mind, matter are of one reality in its two aspects as immovable and movable and three attributes of inertia, energy and harmony. Awareness becomes consciousness when it has an object. The object changes all the time. In consciousness there is movement; awareness by itself is motionless and timeless, here and now
In my eyes in refers to the reality that we find ourselves in experiencing as an organism / body . Awareness becomes consciousness like the cake mix, they are inseparable . This is why in this reality what you are experiencing the organism / body is not separated by consciousness / awareness . It's not like one is aware that the body is just an appearance .
It's no point speaking about awareness by itself when awareness is not by itself, because awareness becomes consciousness when it has an object / organism-body in experience .
This is why the Elephant is a form of God not just an appearance .
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Post by someNOTHING! on Nov 22, 2018 9:08:57 GMT -5
Did you read where I said that if it's actually an angry cobra (rather than an illusion~ a la ropes/snakes) you should move away, and that not dying is something that I support? We're in agreement on the cobra on first mountain, but you're not paying attention to the context mix, so any discussion on truth, illusion, consciousness etc will not yield anything of value on getting to second mountain. There is no context mix. I'm talking about living not speculative thinking. Like I said intellectually I can appreciate the idea of matter not existing, that this is all nothing masquerading as everything. Cool, but that and a dime won't buy me a cup of coffee. I'm not complaining about life so please keep the suffering carrot in your pocket. I'm quite happy and only suffer when I run into advaitans. As to that second mountain if it's full of peevish folk, I'll avoid it. Sorry if I come across in the wrong way here, then. It's not my intent. Your idea of "no mountain" is just that, speculative thinking. If it should so happen one fine eternal moment, it may be seen that such speculative thinking can be left outside the gateless gate at anytime, leaving any chance of suffering, born of the believed thoughts, with it. And you can still have your cup of coffee.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Nov 22, 2018 9:29:37 GMT -5
It's OK to dismiss other perspectives and throw in a jab or two here and there in attempts to discredit or flesh out what you think another appearance has or does not have a reference for. I can only hope it helps you out in some way, but you could be wrong. And if you get caught up in some story the self has started to spin about itself or some apparent other, so be it, but it could be off. No problem; just another chance to tweak the awareness radar. In your mind, I guess it is just clearer and easier if peeps stop saying stuff that doesn't make any sense in everyday contexts or to stubborn minds, unless it's from the dead, disembodied, or other masters. Well, OK. I'll likely stick foolishly with/as Unborn Source. Just talking abiding non-dual awareness, mate. No worries.TBH, I actually was getting a little worried you might never let go of my ankle any time soon. Going back to the largest context is what I would call playing it safe. I mean, that's where we all agree, right? What I have observed is that sometimes, to peeps who are caught up in contradictions in a smaller context with no apparent way out, going back to the largest context can be a rather convenient cop-out or face saving device. So in a sense, it's a different way of agreeing to disagree. That you don't see any value in the discussion on "appearances" gives rise to a ripple in consciousness. Only from/as No Mountain are appearances clearly seen for what they are; otherwise, No Mountain appears as a mirage.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Nov 22, 2018 9:30:34 GMT -5
Oooo, I like that. I'd agree, because I don't think of Love as an emotion, feeling, or attraction per se, but more like an openness AS/TO the movement or presence of life as it is. Awe and wonder, as indications of its realization, come to mind. One CC experience really brought Rumi's poems into a clarity as there was a sense of "the Beloved" being an eternal presence that I had never realized to be "there" within me. I was literally having like an ongoing conversation within, and the clarity that emerged was indescribable. So maybe read Rumi or perhaps about agape, but I've noticed a lot of writers don't really do it justice. Let me make it clear once again. He says "Love witnesses when it moves" He says "Love moves in the absence of the giver"
Do you agree with him?
Yes
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Post by someNOTHING! on Nov 22, 2018 9:40:03 GMT -5
I don't know what will happen. I'm just suggesting trying something in addition to inquiry to potentially make yourself more prone. It seems you have an intellectual understanding of what the ideas generally point to. Your questions seem to arise from realizations that have not been brought into clarity. Actually I am not a mediator. I wouldn't do meditation because the act while I perform while I am doing mediation would create the situation stimulate the same act(bringing back to the attention to the emptiness).
I did not get you here. Can you explain me more here?
Well, it could be that you realize you are the emptiness that you are paying attention "to" in meditation, but you seem more attracted to identifying with the thoughts that fill it. You don't have to tell me how that works out for you, good sir. You are someNothing in which everything is appearing. There seems to be a thought that is believed and is held onto dearly, mind you, that impedes the realization.
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 22, 2018 9:40:17 GMT -5
TBH, I actually was getting a little worried you might never let go of my ankle any time soon. Going back to the largest context is what I would call playing it safe. I mean, that's where we all agree, right? What I have observed is that sometimes, to peeps who are caught up in contradictions in a smaller context with no apparent way out, going back to the largest context can be a rather convenient cop-out or face saving device. So in a sense, it's a different way of agreeing to disagree. That you don't see any value in the discussion on "appearances" gives rise to a ripple in consciousness. Only from/as No Mountain are appearances clearly seen for what they are; otherwise, No Mountain appears as a mirage. Appearances? In all seriousness, there is no body. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 9:49:49 GMT -5
There is no context mix. I'm talking about living not speculative thinking. Like I said intellectually I can appreciate the idea of matter not existing, that this is all nothing masquerading as everything. Cool, but that and a dime won't buy me a cup of coffee. I'm not complaining about life so please keep the suffering carrot in your pocket. I'm quite happy and only suffer when I run into advaitans. As to that second mountain if it's full of peevish folk, I'll avoid it. Sorry if I come across in the wrong way here, then. It's not my intent. Your idea of "no mountain" is just that, speculative thinking. If it should so happen one fine eternal moment, it may be seen that such speculative thinking can be left outside the gateless gate at anytime, leaving any chance of suffering, born of the believed thoughts, with it. And you can still have your cup of coffee. Thanks. We agree.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 9:57:03 GMT -5
Uh Huh, Uh Huh .. Just saying you tell me what's not true about it .How can I when there isn't anything?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 9:58:29 GMT -5
By putting the other in the shade? hmm no, more like seeing two different sides of the same diamond. reverence and irreverence are movements.. how can they be diamonds?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 10:05:28 GMT -5
Having said all that, I used to ref my son's soccer games. Half the crowd wants to kill you and some times, everyone wants to kill you, so I appreciate Reefs position. It is a tough job. But they were fun to have around in all their glory, even with that sharp edge. I miss the counter punches. .. So Reefs is a reeferee . In regards to the teachers, there are bits and pieces that resonate with me also, I remember niz saying in one of his books that was quoted on the forums at sometime to put his book down also and find it out for yourselves . I agree with that . Reefs said something similar to Gopal and when that is accomplished then pick up a book and see if it resonates with what you have realized . I think that is sound advice, at times however a book can be the catalyst in order to take note that one needs to put the book down lol . You're right maybe not a referee, more like a bouncer.
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