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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 13:38:03 GMT -5
I agree, but I'm talking about SR in terms of identity pre-SR and identity post-SR, not the realization itself. After SR,you would not be finding any of these things 'all of which involve a newer, fresher, lighter, expanded, sense of I-am-ness, or I-ness, or identity, ' but you would be knowing that you are not the doer of your action, so post-SR you would be knowing that you are not the doer. It just collapses the idea of who is the doer. Right, there is just what's happening, doer-ship in any form is a mental construct.
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 13:44:46 GMT -5
Does tonight qualify as being a part of the "recent months"?? You sound like someone who just quit smoking less than a year ago. Take off your lawyer hat, please. You're the one who deserves to be put on the defensive, but you don't want to gently clear the air here. You are addicted to conflict, and will say what you have to, to keep it going - more grist for your mill. And your smoking reference points to the fact that you are fully aware of just how nasty a habit YOU have, of fomenting arguments for your sordid entertainment...and you're not alone. 'k I'll take off my lawyer hat if you remove your executioner's mask and back slowly away from yer axe. deal?
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 13:54:36 GMT -5
ok, that might have been confusing for you so I'll rephrase: What is a demonstrable objective fact is that you kept on initiating dialog with me for months even though I refrained from initiating dialog with you or directly referring to you. Your "sniper" remark was, in contrast, your subjective opinion and based on fantasy. Yes, you've been knocking on my door for months now. Hello Tzu', c'mon in, stay awhile. You've been indirectly sniping at me for months, i got tired of ignoring it so i replied directly, and.. as your history reveals, you go on a rampage of mockery, provocation, and pseudo-litigation.. all in support of your cronies' BS. No, you finally came out of the bushes, and it ain't a purty sight.. You keep repeating your subjective opinion about my alleged sniping, but you can't deny the fact that you kept knocking on my door. Fact is that many, if not most of those times you accosted me I hadn't even referred to you indirectly. Do you want me to go back and count to get the specifics on that? Seems you're so conceited as to read yourself into my words when you're just not there, pal.
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 13:56:19 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I've never said that. I've said the separate, volitional person does not exist. Is that what you mean? It's not the same at all. You've repeatedly said 'there is no one there', there is no one that suffers, that suffering, like choosing, simply happens.. recall our discussion about the child suffering in the war zone, where you said that there was actually no one there to suffer?? That happened how many years ago now? Wow, talk about "let it go" ...
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 13:58:48 GMT -5
Wow .. you don't .. I mean, you're not suggesting that tz- naw, really?? Snipe much? Nah dog, I'm not remote, metaphorically speaking, I'm right here in front of you. Yer in my house now, did you miss my welcome? Hey, you kept knockin', remember?
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 14:01:24 GMT -5
Part of your vocabulary, yes, but not part of your actual way of being. Now you are just figgling again. Your original point was about my 'opinion', not about my 'actual way of being'. So, there you go: Little known fact: "Aspirin" was the name of a company that failed to trademark it.
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 14:02:41 GMT -5
ok ok I just gotta say man, he seemed a bit less ready for combat this time, a bit more mellow. Better energy in his words for sure. ps: and how come noone gave me a psychic friends network star for my namin' 'em after like three posts? I agree. Just to be sure, you did realize that was a Lettermen-like reference to a running joke, right?
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 14:05:15 GMT -5
(** straight face **) Link or giraffe. How about this one: Enigma: "We could say that there's a direct correlation between mocking and awakening. The more someone is mocked, the more chances to notice and to become conscious are bestowed upon him. It's just how the law of large numbers works, hehe." Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/225701/threadHis evil knows no bounds. He even mocks himself fer Christ's sake! It's hopeless! Hey! Wait a minute!!
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Post by zendancer on Jul 1, 2015 14:19:39 GMT -5
SR is Self-realization. Call it THAT-realization, or Self-realization, or God-realization, or whatever you wish. If THAT hasn't been realized, then at least one more step is necessary. Yes, I agree, that's why it's called Self-Realization and not Loss of Self-Realization. That's what I've been trying to clarify. SR for you is realizing what you are and consequently what you are not. Where as what I am referring to can't be called Self-Realization because it involves some how or other the collapse of self-identification in any objective or non-objective form. Maybe I'll call it SR without Self... Yes, if this path is pursued far enough, then even SR is left behind. Everything gets left behind! In this thread we've been talking about SR, so that's where the focus has been--realizing the Self and realizing the fictional nature of personal selfhood. The step following SR is forgetting the Self and simply being.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 1, 2015 14:22:04 GMT -5
Nah dog, you kept knockin', remember? Yer in my house now, did you miss my welcome? There's one of your issues, you think this is 'your house', it's not.. you're a guest like the rest of us, but you find your joy believing you're the rude host, trying to exploit others for your own amusement.. the only thing i'm 'knocking' are your delusions..
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 14:28:49 GMT -5
On no, quite contaire mon frere -- the point that it's an effigy is all you need know, and here's why: Were you conscious of the fact that the effigy sets up a double bind for Reefs or is that fact just occurring to you now as you read this sentence? Are you self-realized? If your answer is yes, I say, congratulations! .. and only that. If your answer is no, then the effigy is based on your speculation, and if that's the case and you're sincerely interested in SR, what's the most profitable orientation toward such speculation? That's true but the fact is I'm not asking him if he thinks he is Self Realized, so it's irrelevant. I'm saying that that the odds are greater than 50/50 that the thought of being Self Realized has arisen in his mind and he has either identified with it or not. There is either some truth that he has or there isn't, I'm betting there is. Truth is truth irrespective of effigy or being able to grasp it. No, you're not asking him, instead you've drawn a conclusion and are working backward from there. Relative conceptual truth is a funny thing with regards to "SR", and that's what a good double-bind like "have you stopped beating your wife?" can illustrate -- the mind only ever arrives at a paradox. If you convince yourself of a truth about your effigy of Reefs you've turned this device around on yourself, and not as this type of illustration, but as an act of self bondage that leaves your mind deadlocked on a relative certainty.
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 14:37:04 GMT -5
Actually you are speaking in a different way,but I am pretty sure you realized that you are not the doer but infinite, this realization frees you from trying to do anything rather you are allowing the infinite to do everything. I suppose if I ask you if you think you are infinite that would be a double bind question, so I won't ask it. But I will say if you identify with the infinite then that is simply a mind with an expanded understanding of what you believe you are and not a collapse and subsequent absence of identity. I'm hearing different versions of post SR, all of which involve a newer, fresher, lighter, expanded, sense of I-am-ness, or I-ness, or identity, which I find interesting in light of what should have collapsed with SR. Applying intellect to the question of "what is experience like after SR?" will always result in contradiction. For the mind, there is only paradox.
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 14:42:55 GMT -5
A realization is a realization; a realization is not an identification. There is a difference. I agree, but I'm talking about SR in terms of identity pre-SR and identity post-SR, not the realization itself. A description of an absence sounds to intellect as a description of some thing. Absence of limitation points to what is beyond apprehension.
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 14:49:14 GMT -5
Yes, I agree, that's why it's called Self-Realization and not Loss of Self-Realization. That's what I've been trying to clarify. SR for you is realizing what you are and consequently what you are not. Where as what I am referring to can't be called Self-Realization because it involves some how or other the collapse of self-identification in any objective or non-objective form. Maybe I'll call it SR without Self... He is talking about identifying the correct doer. The doer is only a metaphor. The metaphor is very useful for describing mistaken identification with what is limited. It's also useful to point to what it is that we really are, which isn't subject to limit. We reach the limitations of the metaphor if we take the notion of an unlimited doer literally. The cosmos isn't a thing. It isn't everything, and it isn't anything. Noone (and no thing) ever does anything.
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Post by laughter on Jul 1, 2015 14:50:54 GMT -5
I don't think you are understanding what he is talking about. I don't understand what he is talking about because I agreed with you? (** tries really really hard not to laugh **)
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