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Post by laughter on Oct 9, 2015 10:39:37 GMT -5
No, 'Pulling' means pulling yourself when you loose passion. When you are in passion, you don't need to pull yourself, it's a pleasant movement. So does it mean forcing yourself? Really, you need to find another word, please. I consulted with Crystal and she broke the bad news that this is one of those sticky idiom issues.
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Post by laughter on Oct 9, 2015 10:46:28 GMT -5
Space/time is the medium that allows relation of all the objects in a field of perception to one another and the observer. It follows quite naturally from the initial differentiation of subject as an object. So, the only way for there to be no space, is for there to be no objects. Where there are objects, there is space. Yup. I'd say space is the frame for relative position, and time is the frame for relative motion in that space. (space allows for differentiation, time allows for movement) Without that structure, there is no experiencing. Meditation can be about investigating the nature of that structure, and as experience is dependent on it, the results of the investigation can completely re-orient ones perspective toward experience altogether. This sounds nutty, but actually refers quite directly to simple sanity. And either space/time or thingness will do, because what's investigated is, essentially, the phenomenon of relation, relations and relationship.
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Post by laughter on Oct 9, 2015 10:50:37 GMT -5
No, 'Pulling' means pulling yourself when you loose passion. When you are in passion, you don't need to pull yourself, it's a pleasant movement. Oh my heavens!!
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Post by zendancer on Oct 9, 2015 10:51:05 GMT -5
Here's a question about SR. What we call "SR" could also be called "TR"--THIS realization--the realization that who we are is the cosmos, or isness, or THIS--the whole shebang. I'm curious about what brings about TR in people who never felt as if they were "little people inside their heads" who controlled the body and made things happen. In the case of this body/mind there was always a strong sense of a "me," as if I were a little person inside the head looking out through the eyes, who moved the body around, had motives, thoughts, feelings, and sensory perception, and made things happen. After an initial CC experience, it became obvious that what I had thought was an objective reality "out there" composed of things and events located in space and time was an illusion, and that reality was a unified, infinite, whole. After that initial experience, I knew that I was one-with THAT, but the "me" was still intact. I felt like "I" had had an experience of cosmic consciousness and had been allowed by Grace to see what was behind the conventional appearances of the world. My goal then became psychological unity with THAT. I wanted to FEEL and BE the state of oneness that I had felt for a short period of time during the CC experience. During the next fifteen years I had many unity-consciousness experiences of oneness, but they were all transitory, and the "me" (the little guy in the head) always returned. I call this sense of having a "me" "a hard-core sense of selfhood." Apparently some people do not have this same kind of hard-core sense of selfhood. In 1999, after several days of hiking in the mountains doing ATA-T, I had a deep emotional experience. Afterwards, consciousness looked within, and discovered that the "me" had vanished. The "little guy" was gone. Once the little guy was gone it then became obvious that the "little guy" had never existed; it had been totally imaginary. It also became obvious that what I was was what remained in the absence of the "little guy"--THIS. Discovering that I was THIS ended the spiritual search and resulted in freedom. Inside and outside were seen to be one; oneness with isness was felt; and the "little guy" never returned. Whatever "I" did after that day, is what THIS did, and this doing continued as a kind of flow of being. With this story in mind, I'm curious how this realization occurs in other people who never had a strong sense of being a little person inside a body making things happen. There are at least 6 to 10 people on this forum who have attained TR (THIS realization), and I'd like to know what happened that allowed them to see through the illusion of personal selfhood. Did they have a "me" that suddenly disappeared, as in my case, or did something else happen that made the obvious suddenly become obvious? When Niz says 'I am That' is he basically also saying there is no other; IOW, Self/THIS-Realization is the same? Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 10:55:10 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see if anyone other than Laughter has a go with this
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Post by laughter on Oct 9, 2015 10:59:06 GMT -5
You should get off your high perch. I think it's about time we reeled you in. Hey, trout out to us if there's anything on the line. All that space in between makes it hard to see for sure.
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 9, 2015 11:45:12 GMT -5
I think it's about time we reeled you in. Hey, trout out to us if there's anything on the line. All that space in between makes it hard to see for sure. What are you carping about??
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Post by laughter on Oct 9, 2015 11:48:43 GMT -5
Hey, trout out to us if there's anything on the line. All that space in between makes it hard to see for sure. What are you carping about?? heh heh wouldn't you like ta' know! loxa' luck!
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 9, 2015 12:04:11 GMT -5
What are you carping about?? heh heh wouldn't you like ta' know! loxa' luck! I can't do this anymore. You're like a sponge sucking the life out of me.
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Post by zendancer on Oct 9, 2015 12:18:51 GMT -5
I think it's about time we reeled you in. Hey, trout out to us if there's anything on the line. All that space in between makes it hard to see for sure. Well, those who cast their vision a bit farther asea often have the scales fall from their "I"s.
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 9, 2015 12:35:14 GMT -5
Hey, trout out to us if there's anything on the line. All that space in between makes it hard to see for sure. Well, those who cast their vision a bit farther asea often have the scales fall from their "I"s.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 13:07:23 GMT -5
Gopal, you have been on this forum long enough to know that there is no space between Consciousness and it's objects, yes? Space/time is the medium that allows relation of all the objects in a field of perception to one another and the observer. It follows quite naturally from the initial differentiation of subject as an object. So, the only way for there to be no space, is for there to be no objects. Where there are objects, there is space. Sure, I meant there is no physical space between Self Consciousness and it's objects. It is rather an implication that arises as a result of Consciousness identifying itself as an individual, person or human being. The two indubitable factors that make up a human being is the knowing we exist and space/time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 13:16:56 GMT -5
The function of the mind with the help of being aware of yourself, creates an apparent separation, psychologically/physically, between the thought and its object(body). We call this apparent separation space. Good. Now, feel it. Yeah, feeling or intuition is betterer, because even the idea of a space-less and timeless existence seems to be limited by space and time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 13:30:16 GMT -5
Here's a question about SR. What we call "SR" could also be called "TR"--THIS realization--the realization that who we are is the cosmos, or isness, or THIS--the whole shebang. I'm curious about what brings about TR in people who never felt as if they were "little people inside their heads" who controlled the body and made things happen. In the case of this body/mind there was always a strong sense of a "me," as if I were a little person inside the head looking out through the eyes, who moved the body around, had motives, thoughts, feelings, and sensory perception, and made things happen. After an initial CC experience, it became obvious that what I had thought was an objective reality "out there" composed of things and events located in space and time was an illusion, and that reality was a unified, infinite, whole. After that initial experience, I knew that I was one-with THAT, but the "me" was still intact. I felt like "I" had had an experience of cosmic consciousness and had been allowed by Grace to see what was behind the conventional appearances of the world. My goal then became psychological unity with THAT. I wanted to FEEL and BE the state of oneness that I had felt for a short period of time during the CC experience. During the next fifteen years I had many unity-consciousness experiences of oneness, but they were all transitory, and the "me" (the little guy in the head) always returned. I call this sense of having a "me" "a hard-core sense of selfhood." Apparently some people do not have this same kind of hard-core sense of selfhood. In 1999, after several days of hiking in the mountains doing ATA-T, I had a deep emotional experience. Afterwards, consciousness looked within, and discovered that the "me" had vanished. The "little guy" was gone. Once the little guy was gone it then became obvious that the "little guy" had never existed; it had been totally imaginary. It also became obvious that what I was was what remained in the absence of the "little guy"--THIS. Discovering that I was THIS ended the spiritual search and resulted in freedom. Inside and outside were seen to be one; oneness with isness was felt; and the "little guy" never returned. Whatever "I" did after that day, is what THIS did, and this doing continued as a kind of flow of being. With this story in mind, I'm curious how this realization occurs in other people who never had a strong sense of being a little person inside a body making things happen. There are at least 6 to 10 people on this forum who have attained TR (THIS realization), and I'd like to know what happened that allowed them to see through the illusion of personal selfhood. Did they have a "me" that suddenly disappeared, as in my case, or did something else happen that made the obvious suddenly become obvious? Sixteen years ago, having had no previous interest whatsoever in anything remotely spiritual I had my first 'THIS realisation'. I say first, but when it happened it had a familiarity about it which was so powerful that I was convinced that this was how things really were. (From here I immersed myself in a steady meditation practice, read all I could find on anything related to the experience - both eastern and western - and for a while became part of a Buddhist group.) After several 'openings' it became clear that habits of mind, conceptual thought and belief were responsible for generating/perpetuating a veil over the natural, wide-open, felt-sense of existence simply happening of its own accord. Coming up to date, I have to report that the me has not completely vanished and is unlikely to - it is a phenomenon that has a certain (practical) persistence to it. But it can be seen to be insubstantial and intermittent. In its context I don't actually see it as a problem (which leads me to wonder if the me is experienced differently or more problematic in some cases.) Once the felt-sense of Reality as the ground of appearance/manifestation is recognised (not just intellectually but as feeling-realisation), what we might call intermittent secondary identification (father, musician, person, me…) is not an issue. These 'roles' are nested within true identity, within THIS. True identity always comes out on top, how can it not?
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Post by zin on Oct 9, 2015 13:56:29 GMT -5
alarm's conundrum: it's divine past six but who would ring a hammer? Hammers and rings and all sorts of things they break they fly and they shatter! It's only by mad that it's ever had that any of it really matters! It's not that it's meaningless oh so no! no! It's not that it's empty and dull It's just until, the mind is set still the sleeper in bed he will lull! A greeting to the emoticons artist!
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